Would BJ be GOAT candidate today had he beaten GSP for the WW tittle in 2009?

[pankrat]

The posible destruction of Islam by Topuria in a superior weight class got me thinking into its GOAT potential.

Would BJ be in the convo at least for "Mt.Roushmore" had he beat GSP for the WW tittle in 2009? If by brutal KO?

I think so, even losing a controversial dec to Frankie afterwards and the debacle that followed

 

[BowserJr]

The posible destruction of Islam by Topuria in a superior weight class got me thinking into its GOAT potential.

Would BJ be in the convo at least for "Mt.Roushmore" had he beat GSP for the WW tittle in 2009? If by brutal KO?

I think so, even losing a controversial dec to Frankie afterwards and the debacle that followed

Absolutely

GSP is one of the GOATs that seemingly will never be surpassed.

It wouldn't be like the Serra loss because
A 1st fight was razor thin
B BJ was the undisputed LW GOAT until Khabib. Newer fans just dont understand how good BJ was cuz he fought way longer than he should have

 

[Kung Fu Kowboy]

BJ fought Prime Machida at Heavyweight... Let's see Topuria or Islam do something like that.

 

[Pierce 34]

Depends if he was motivated

 

[KO Shotz]

Yes, beating GSP would put him in the category of the literal best to ever do it. Him losing to Frankie at the time was upsetting because nobody knew who tf Frankie Edgar was. But eventually ppl would've been more forgiving of BJ losing to Frankie after everything he accomplished & did after the BJ fights.

I mean Frankie vs Aldo was one of the few fights that I have ever been ecstatic for.

 

[Thai Domi]

He did beat him in their first fight and then Georges lubricated himself in their second fight.

It is known.

 

[Hdfi]

He's still in the GOAT P4P discussion imo. Penn has more top ten wins than Islam and Khabib at LW, was a two division champion, fought guys three times his size, etc. Absolute legend. The end of his career was awful, though.

 

[liner]

Bj beat Hughes when Hughes was a monster. Not that that makes him the best to ever do it but that victory over a prime Hughes should be viewed as a much bigger accomplishment than it is w newer fans.

 

[IneedSometop]

If the question is would he be in the conversation the answer is yes. If the question is would he make it on Rushmore I'm saying no. He'd be in the conversation but the "Mt. Rushmore" conversation is pretty crowded GSP, Anderson, Jones, Fedor, Aldo, MM, BJ, Khabib(say what you will but he's in it)

If you add a GSP finish to that he'd have a legit case but I'd still probably have guys like MM, and Aldo, Anderson ahead of him due to longevity and dominance within a division.

I think the post frankie WW run of him going 0-2-1 actually does hurt him quite a bit in this type of discussion since he was still under 35 iirc

 

[KO Shotz]

He's still in the GOAT P4P discussion imo. Penn has more top ten wins than Islam and Khabib at LW, was a two division champion, fought guys three times his size, etc. Absolute legend. The end of his career was awful, though.

Dude frfr. BJ is one of my all time favorites. I saw multiple BJ fights live. He was one of the few who were truly well rounded back in the day. Dude had such a great career but the end definitely taints his legacy unfortunately, & the whole UFC & K-1 thing kinda sucked but we did get BJ vs Lyoto outta that

 

[Tweak896]

I would guess he'd be like a Cain Velaquez. I mean assuming he won the WW belt and had to defend against Alves at UFC 100 like GSP, there's just a whole lot of what if's in this scenario. BJ Penn would never of stacked up wins like GSP did after BJ Penn. He's a very talented fighter, but didn't have a great record. Crazy to think BJ never won a LW fight the year after losing to GSP.

 

[BigOlJeet]

BJ is so overrated only he can get away with having as much losses as wins and still be considered GOAT, he’s a bum that would lose to the CM Punk’s.

 

[Bouboumaster]

His case would be better, but a victory in the second fight would have been a lot more solid

 

[Thesnake101]

If he still ends up getting KO'd by some random fat guy and losing to Siver, prolly not.

A lot of the GOAT debate has to do with visuals, being near a .500 record greatly diminishes how many view your legacy.

 

[Cooliox]

Beating Prime Hughes was a bigger deal at that time.

Hughes was an unstoppable force.

 

[SuperNerd]

 

[cws80us]

At his prime, he was one of the greatest of all time, but unfortunately after his loss to Edgar, he went straight downhill and never was the same. He won once after that, and just never really looked the same.

Who knows at what point the mental issues may have started to take effect, but he's definitely suffering from CTE or some other type of trauma from his fighting career. It's sad to watch.

 

[FreddieRoachsVoice]

Absolutely and he could have easily been high up there amongst the best to ever do it if he at all took training seriously.

Once you realize that BJ came from a rich family, the story of his career makes a lot more sense because you can see how spoiled, arrogant, and lazy he is. He had one of the best chins ever, amazing natural flexibility, was obviously a BJJ phenom, and tremendous boxing... but he was fighting 3 weight classes above his own "for the challenge" and his biggest weakness was cardio? lol Why do people always give this a pass?

BJ easily had one of the best natural skillsets for MMA in history but he coasted off of it for years and had a very small window where he actually trained properly which absolutely falls on him. Why do people fault a guy for having a bad chin and yet give a free pass for being "unmotivated" which is actually something that is under their control?

He still had some amazing highs in his career because he was that dangerous of a fighter but I can't imagine how anyone can look at him and say "he reached his full potential" considering what he was working with.

Whereas GSP was hungry and improved significantly since their 1st fight, BJ was still essentially the same fighter as before and thus got absolutely destroyed in the rematch. Genuine LMFAO @ people using greasing as an excuse for the outcome of that fight when BJ has 0 submission wins from guard in his career, was getting taken down at will, and was gassed in a matter of minutes. Then he had his mom write a letter to the athletic commission to complain for him LOLLLL again, his story makes a lot more sense now, doesn't it?

You can't take away his accomplishments even though his post-MMA career has been a terrifying cautionary tale (not all of which is caused by CTE even though that is a big part of it) but to me, BJ fits more on a "best natural skillsets ever" list than he does a "GOAT career list". He simply was not consistent enough to be called one of the best to ever do it. Despite being a multi time champion, his potential still outweighs his success IMHO

 

[Substance Abuse]

Grease gate.

And the answer is yes.

 

[jsbx45]

He already is/was so I'd imagine he'd be way up there in the running. Those fights didn't work out for him so well and seems like that's where he started to unravel. Hate to see what's going on with him these days. Sad.