Would BJ be GOAT candidate today had he beaten GSP for the WW tittle in 2009?

Kowboy On Sherdog said:
BJ fought Prime Machida at Heavyweight... Let's see Topuria or Islam do something like that.
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Yes let's all endorse a fighter gaining excessive weight from lack of training and act like this is something to be proud of. This is not the flex people think it is...

Penn is like the kid in high school who brags about "never having to study" who ends up dropping out of university... seeing how far someone can go without working hard sounds real neat until you watch that person completely f*ck up their life.
 
FreddieRoachsVoice said:
Yes let's all endorse a fighter gaining excessive weight from lack of training and act like this is something to be proud of. This is not the flex people think it is...

Penn is like the kid in high school who brags about "never having to study" who ends up dropping out of university... seeing how far someone can go without working hard sounds real neat until you watch that person completely f*ck up their life.
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your criticism of BJ's work ethic and attitude is warranted, but you sound like a hater when you say you don't think a fat 155lber went to a competitive decision vs a future UFC LHW champion is a flex. you think Topuria could go to decision with Ankalaev if Topuria weighed 200lbs? i don't. not even guys 3 weight classes bigger than BJ could. Bonnar and Franklin were both stopped by Machida BEFORE fighting BJ.
 
Fight #1 was razor thin, basically a tie.
Fight #2 was not gsp, but rather a masked alien with super powers.

So BJ, is GOAT.
 
Mt. Roushmore? Like that NASCAR team? WTF does that have to do with BJ Penn?
 
jsbx45 said:
He already is/was so I'd imagine he'd be way up there in the running. Those fights didn't work out for him so well and seems like that's where he started to unravel. Hate to see what's going on with him these days. Sad.
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That's one of the tough things about being a combat sports fan I reckon, some of the legends don't end up in good shape unfortunately.
 
liner said:
Bj beat Hughes when Hughes was a monster. Not that that makes him the best to ever do it but that victory over a prime Hughes should be viewed as a much bigger accomplishment than it is w newer fans.
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Indeed. As much as I cannot fucking stand Matt Hughes, for reasons that will be clear to longstanding fans of the sport, his run at the apex of the sport is one of the most underrated nowadays. Up there with Big Nog's run at HW.
 
Hdfi said:
He's still in the GOAT P4P discussion imo. Penn has more top ten wins than Islam and Khabib at LW, was a two division champion, fought guys three times his size, etc. Absolute legend. The end of his career was awful, though.
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Indeed. But increasingly I basically discount what happens when someone doesn't know when to retire. That is a psychological issue, very sad to see, yet does not impact what was achieved at the fighter's peak.
 
Hypotheticals like these are not really worth considering as legacies can change massively from one fight.

Imagine if Volk beat Islam, or if Usman beat Edwards then Chimaev in a 5 rounder, or if Khabib stayed and beat Charles, etc.
 
Subline said:
Hypotheticals like these are not really worth considering as legacies can change massively from one fight.

Imagine if Volk beat Islam, or if Usman beat Edwards then Chimaev in a 5 rounder, or if Khabib stayed and beat Charles, etc.
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Thats right although there arent that many fights so significant to the point it would get the winner into the GOAT convo.
You mention Volk vs Islan which could be an example but I dont think Usman beating Leon would've boosted his legacy all that much
 
His legacy right now is a 1-time WW champ (no defenses) and a LW champ with 3x defenses.

If he beat GSP, he'd be a 2-time WW champ. I don't think he'd have hung onto the belt long.

Beating Frankie would have been great for his LW legacy. He'd have four defenses, and would have been the record holder until recently (Islam tied with 4). This strengthens his claim as LW GOAT.

All that said, beating GSP is more impressive than beating Frankie.
 
pankrat said:
The posible destruction of Islam by Topuria in a superior weight class got me thinking into its GOAT potential.

Would BJ be in the convo at least for "Mt.Roushmore" had he beat GSP for the WW tittle in 2009? If by brutal KO?

I think so, even losing a controversial dec to Frankie afterwards and the debacle that followed
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Of course but he's still the lw goat did Islam get 5 defenses?? But it's hard to say
 
Could be, but to be honest, most people don't understand Penn's career since it's "too old", so I dont think he'd be considered a candidate by most.

They only know his LW title reign, but most of his resume is before he was UFC champion. Hence why you have people talking about his defenses.



Most people don't know anything about him beating Gomi, Uno, Pulver - even his lesser wins like Serra is serious competition. "3 defenses and 1 WW title isn't enough" - he literally was fighting when the UFC didn't have a LW title...
 
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Getting a little ahead of yourself on Topuria there.
 
Pequeño Corey said:
His legacy right now is a 1-time WW champ (no defenses) and a LW champ with 3x defenses.

If he beat GSP, he'd be a 2-time WW champ. I don't think he'd have hung onto the belt long.

Beating Frankie would have been great for his LW legacy. He'd have four defenses, and would have been the record holder until recently (Islam tied with 4). This strengthens his claim as LW GOAT.

All that said, beating GSP is more impressive than beating Frankie.
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Those are his accolades but I'd say his early UFC run and the Gomi fight add to his legacy, even competitive decisions with the much bigger p4p talents Machida and GSP
 
Here is what I think; BJ Penn was stolen and replaced by a clone before that fight. We actually never saw the real BJ Penn fight in the Octagon ever again.
 
AstralPanda said:
And should have won

I had him winning that fight, machida barely won by razor thin split decision
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The decision was unanimous, the fight was only close in that neither fighter did anything, both fighters were massively out of shape, and BJ's only effective offense all fight was grabbing a very gassed Machida by the balls towards the end of round one, causing him to slip and fall with BJ landing on top.
 
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