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Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by thecas, Oct 23, 2005.

  1. thecas

    thecas Blue Belt

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    This bugs me sometimes..

    Is it only me or does any1 else also worry about accidentally killing someone with RNC if the other guy does not tap in time n u held it for too long? [after all u r not in front to see his exression] How long does the RNC take to kill someone?
     
  2. Dedicado

    Dedicado Machetero

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    You have to hold the RNC on an already unconcious person for a very long time for them to die. Like around 6 minutes for the brain to be damaged beyond repair. It's like a drowning, if you respond quickly enough you can save them before anything lethal happens.
    In Judo they teach a technique called " Kappa ", it is used to resucitate a choked out and unconcious person. Learn it. Also, learn CPR and have a phone handy to call an ambulance. Always call 911 first, then start the CPR.
    Besides, when they go limp, you let them go. Roll them over and see if they are concious. You won't kill anyone if you follow these rules.
     
  3. Balto

    Balto Silver Belt

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    It is really hard to even brain damage someone with an RNC. You would have to choke their limp, unconscious body for minutes.

    Unless you are psychotic, the RNC is very safe.
     
  4. thecas

    thecas Blue Belt

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    You know a mnemoric I once heard? It says for every 1 minute a heart attack victim is not attended to after a heart attack his rate of survival decreases by 10%. will it mean if u choke for 15 secs there is a 2.5% chance that the person will die? Course I know its not but its creepy that there is even a possibility.
     
  5. phenomfan1529

    phenomfan1529 Brown Belt

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    I wouldnt worry too much about it. Like dedicado said, you'll have to have the RNC for quite a while. I dont worry about it much because I have a hard time getting the guys back to sink in the RNC. :)
     
  6. Dean Hamilton

    Dean Hamilton Amateur Fighter

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    They should tap... lol jk ;)
    Like dedicado said, once they go limp let em go... although Ive never choked someone that far, Im sure you can tell when they do.
     
  7. Waxwingslain

    Waxwingslain oiseau rebelle

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    I've choked people out and been choked out in sparring and not had a problem. You'll notice when your partner goes limp.
     
  8. b0b

    b0b Banned Banned

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  9. stephensharp

    stephensharp Brown Belt

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    thecas, do you actually train, or do you just roll with a friend? A lot of your threads are... I dunno how to put it, but they make me worry about YOU and your trianing.

    You're not going to kill someone with the RNC. You shouldn't be rolling with anyone too stupid to tap, and if you're competing (a circumstance where people won't tap, because they trust the ref will break up the fight, and that they may escape) you will have responsible adults around to make sure things don't go catastrophically wrong.

    As explained, the brain needs to be robbed of oxygen for roughly 6 minutes to cause permanent damage. As long as you let go of the choke and the person starts breathing on their own again, they should be fine. If it looks questionable, just shaking them a bit should snap them out of the shock.

    Other than that, I wholeheartedly support Garage Jiu-Jitsu, but only when the participants have had some form of real training first.
     
  10. DMcKayBJJ

    DMcKayBJJ Blue Belt

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    But a heart attack and an RNC are two totally different things.
     
  11. thecas

    thecas Blue Belt

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    Yes I do train. 3 mths Aikido[that was crap] followed by 1 year of watching MMA Clips [I got literally 1500+ (MMA or other fight types) clips in my comp n watched all at least once] then followed by 6mths of tjj. Currently lay off due to toe injury. Still new perhaps but sufficient to know wats happening.

    Reason there is doubt here is bcoz there are documented cases of manslaughter[Wat degree homicide do u call it in the US?] Where the perpetrator was merely trying to subdue the victim(In one case in my country, a huge palm over nose n mouth was sufficient. In other cases I hav heard of it was by pillow or something) but ended up killing them. Hence the doubt, however slight.
     
  12. Envious

    Envious Purple Belt

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    I believe the RNC is a vascular choke which means it is constricitng the amount of blood to your brain causing you to pass out. Putting a pillow over someones face will suffocate the person causing them to die.
     
  13. Joey Guidice

    Joey Guidice Green Belt Professional Fighter

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    I once heard that in rare cases, the RNC can cause an anyuerysm (Sp?)....does anyone know any truth to that?
     
  14. bammann45

    bammann45 Yellow Belt

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    Yeah, there is a difference between 100% suffocation with an object and the RNC... I believe even when unconciousness is caused by the RNC some blood is still being supplied to the brain.. you would have to really give it the college try to kill the person by holding it for a long, long time or by crushing their windpipe, but I agree with other comments above -- when would this be an issue for you? If they go limp or its more than say.. max 15 seconds when you have it cranked, then let go.
     
  15. stephensharp

    stephensharp Brown Belt

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    How does one go about "merely trying to subdue someone" with a pillow? That's that old movie trick where they suffocate people in their sleep with them. That's just a bullshit defense for murder (manslaughter is accidental homicide, likely the same in both our countries).

    You listed "watching MMA for a year" as part of your training resume... You're silly.
     
  16. Soid

    Soid Renegade of Funk

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    Hmm.., not to hijack the thread but would suffocating someone with a napkin or a pillow kill them? I wanna try it atleast once before going to prison.
     
  17. thecas

    thecas Blue Belt

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    Supposedly so. Its been done, but usually works only if the person below is weaker than u, and u have the mounted position :wink:

    As for watching MMA for a year, its silly if u hav solely that. However, if u hav that + trained n most importantly read up, u will understand n may apply the things instantaneously.
     
  18. Big Red

    Big Red Green Belt

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    The stubborn person should tap. Simple as. There is no & I mean NO point to not tap during training if you have to. Many a time I see people or hear about people having their arms damaged or choking out into spasms because they are too stubborn to tap.

    If your in a competition or MMA fight, there is a ref to stop the action.

    If your on the street, well I'd be careful. Though it would be sweet to choke some punk ass pussy out, you would get in a big deal of trouble if the '5 oh' turned up.
     
  19. stephensharp

    stephensharp Brown Belt

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    Pillow thing: Supposedly a great way to murder sick/old people whose will you're in.

    Watching MMA as "training": If you change that "trained" to "train" (past tense to present), you may have a point, otherwise you sound like a 15 year old ninja wannabe. You can't "apply the things instantaneously" just by seeing them and having trained sometime in your past, especially since you never trained anything relevant to modern MMA. You don't even have a year of martial arts training, and the two arts you trained in are generally considered to be Bullshido.

    If you mean you rolled with a buddy, watched a tape, read a book, then practiced stuff, you might be on to something, but you'll never get very good that way, because you've never really trained.
     
  20. thecas

    thecas Blue Belt

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    I m back now.

    Watching so damn many fights[prementioned, 1 year] n submissions added by the book, I perhaps had them in my head already. u mean, for submission u need to do them to know them? For throws and swimming, yes. But submissions, no.

    When I went to the club, yes, at first I was losing like crazy. Coz all I knew was subs( Tho I did it well; sensei didn't comment anythin. But watching didnt get me position before submissions.

    6mths later my sole gap is patched up. Now I am consistently winning Organge belts 20 pds heavier than me[pple who trained 1.5yrs]. So my 1 year was better doing wat I did, than 'training'

    And ya, keyholes n kimuras r not relevant to modern MMA

    In summary, 2 pts:

    1]U can learn submissions by watching. Tell me y not? U need not have 'sense of balance' small adjustments to make it better slightly r there, but these u can pick up eventually.

    2]It is better to learn 1 thing at a time. Like someone else on sherdog mentioned the other time, judo or bjj, better than mixing up everything.


    N for your slightly misinformed mind, TJJ is about the same as bjj. .5 hr warmup, 1 hr coaching, then 20mins rolling(less compared to bjj, I know). But there is a guy who apparently went to a seminar by Renzo b4. I caught him in a guillotine, he slipped out into side mount..we didnt hav time to complete. My instructor is a judo blackbelt too

    Of course, all these w/o me meeting u r just, u say 1 thing, I say my view etc.wont prove anything But I m a fast typer n I limited my reply to 10 mins n made it :)
     

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