Crime Woman in Minneapolis Executed by ICE Officers; White House Reflexively Hand Waves Murder

[cottagecheesefan]

I understand that it can be a felony, I just don’t see a judge going with it, UNLESS prosecutors can convince she was trying to injure an officer, which by the actions on video, I personally don’t see. But I’m no judge or legal scholar.

Fair enough. I was just pointing out that the violence isn’t needed based on the law, and I think the organizing a caravan and using her car as such shows it is beyond deliberate, and it was an organized effort, would give more than enough reason to federally charge.

I do wish there was more footage available of not just the minutes leading up to the incident, but also the prior half hour or longer, so see how aggressive she and the other caravan drivers were, the warnings they were given, etc

 

[Other]

Fun fact:

Jordan v. City of New London was a lawsuit where an applicant was deemed too intelligent to be a cop, sued the city, AND LOST!

Then an appeals court upheld the decision... the decision where a police department had to admit they didn't want cops who were too intelligent. And it was upheld.

So the fact that departments and courts want dumb cops is kinda why I'm not too keen on cops. Because the people who take my tax dollars believe we should be policed by morons. And we're seeing that here. Morons.

 

[HereticBD]

Jesus Christ dude, if the police followed this doctrine regularly and it was normal practice then they'd be shooting a fuck load of people.

Well, they do shoot a lot of people. Sometimes in this exact scenario.

I kind of hope people are trolling at this point because the lack of humanity people have in this thread is disturbing.

Oh' get the fuck off your high horse. All you guys have is this wishy washy emotional bullshit, as if the majority of you guys weren't laughing your asses off at an actual murder that happened earlier this year. Funny how your emotional lecturing was absent in that thread. I guess you don't treat all your lefty buddies the same, when they're literally laughing and cheering on murder. Then again, that guy did say some things you disagree with...

 

[GreatSaintGuillotine]

It is a felony to deliberately hinder federal law enforcement, no violence needed. Not to mention leading a caravan is also likely took ant least some level of organization, making it also a conspiracy to obstruct federal law enforcement

under federal statutes like 18 U.S.C. § 111, which criminalizes assaulting, resisting, impeding, intimidating, or interfering with federal officers, with penalties potentially reaching 20 years in prison depending on the specifics, especially if force, weapons, or serious harm are involved. This falls under general "obstruction of justice" or "obstructing a federal officer" charges, making it a serious federal crime, not just a misdemeanor.

It CAN BE a felony but rarely is if no force or violence was involved. Blocking a car stuck in snow may be a traffic violation or misdemeanor obstruction but that's for a court to decide. Regardless, it didn't justify what happened

 

[lsa]

Just read there are demonstrations and police has fired rubber bullets at people.

 

[Anewt]

Nope.

Key point: reasonable beliefs of imminent threat to life or serious injury.

You can't shoot someone running from you if there were no clear prior signs they were attempting to or looking to seriously harm or kill people. In this case, she was just being a nuisance to ICE. Not violent or even aggressive. Therefore, the act of fleeing isn't enough to assume violence will follow.

Ok so accelerating with a person in front of your vehicle is harmless and no one would take it possibly take it as threatening violence

Fleeing from a cop does not insinuate an intent to harm. To hide something? Sure. But the act of fleeing is inherently avoiding immediate conflict. Thus why shootings someone running away from you is wildly illegal unless they are clearly running in an attempt to actively attack someone. (I.e. with a knife, gun, etc).

Fleeing with a disregarx for a person.. let alone a leo infront of your vehicle is a threat... you cant run from the cops on public roads and start it with a disreguard for the safety of a officer in front of your vehicle and say theres zero threat to the public or law enforcement....

being willing to flee in a 2 a half tonne vehicle on public roads makes you a potential threat to everyone. In my personal opinion... let alone the whe person in front of vehicle

Shooting anyone who runs from a cop is an insanely terrible practice. Fear of the cops isn't a death sentence.

..... spinning your wheels accelerating with anybody infront of your vehicle is a threat...... in my opinion

None of which are violent acts that would justify lethal force in your country or ours

Okay.

 

[Natural Order]

This wasn't a case of lethal threat since she was clearly turning to get away from them and she was so close that even if she had pressed the pedal all the way it wouldn't have hit him that hard. Definitely a stupid move by her, and it should be condemned, but there was no reason whatsoever for use of lethal force there. Two bad mistakes, but the one that led to an unnecessary death wasn't the one you only want to focus on.

Any officer that carries a weapon should have enough training as to be able to make the correct choice even in high stress situations. That's why such jobs should always have long education requirements, but the US seems to often lack there compared to many similar countries.

And that's for normal police services.

3/4 of these ICE agents are complete cans plucked from the streets and given a few hours training. More situations like this will undoubtedly occur over the next year as a result of poor training and theatrical behaviour. Sad stuff what America has been reduced to.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

Well if you considering forming Caracas to block federal law enforcement “protesting in America”, you are entitled to that opinion.

I respectfully disagree

Caracas was Trump's felony kidnapping and has no bearing on this case...

 

[Tatra]

The vast majority of ICE officers are completely peaceful. They actually commit less crime than non-ICE officers.

 

[lsa]

And that's for normal police services.

3/4 of these ICE agents are complete cans plucked from the streets and given a few hours training. More situations like this will undoubtedly occur over the next year as a result of poor training and theatrical behaviour. Sad stuff what America has been reduced to.

You saw my post about how ICE is recruiting and they target NASCAR and UFC fans?

 

[IanEdwards]

And that's for normal police services.

3/4 of these ICE agents are complete cans plucked from the streets and given a few hours training. More situations like this will undoubtedly occur over the next year as a result of poor training and theatrical behaviour. Sad stuff what America has been reduced to.

being a cop and dealing with life threatening situations where you are armed or they may be armed is difficult enough and far too stressful and impactful for the majority of people. doing it with minimal training is literally a recipe for wrongful/accidental deaths

 

[Hellowhosthat]

Well, they do shoot a lot of people. Sometimes in this exact scenario.

Oh' get the fuck off your high horse. All you guys have is this wishy washy emotional bullshit, as if the majority of you guys weren't laughing your asses off at an actual murder that happened earlier this year. Funny how your emotional lecturing was absent in that thread. I guess you don't treat all your lefty buddies the same, when they're literally laughing and cheering on murder. Then again, that guy did say some things you disagree with...

I was against the murder of Kirk and I posted as such in the thread. Not everyone is glued to the left or right wing and feels they have to stick with their talking points whether they agree or not.

Who do you mean by "You guys", people who disagree with shooting people at point blank range.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

Well it's not like they were performing an immigration check. These guys aren't traffic cops. It's not their job to stop people going over the speed limit or taking illegal U turns. Idling in the road? Not an ICE problem. They just wanted her out of the car, period. If she had driven off, nothing would have come from it.

And again that brings up what kind of training these guys require to be qualified and what the scope of their orders are being deployed among civilians.

 

[Hog-train]

Obstruction is a physical act. It's perfectly legal for people to follow them around jeering them in protest.

Intentionally blocking the road so cars can't move is a physical act.

 

[Rational Poster]

Intentionally blocking the road so cars can't move is a physical act.

The road was blocked by the ICE agents stuck in the snow. The other lane was wide open and she reversed to let other vehicle pass.

 

[Natural Order]

You saw my post about how ICE is recruiting and they target NASCAR and UFC fans?

I did. Thoroughly embarrassing if true.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

Not that I know of, which is weird since there were dozens and dozens of people watching and filming.

You’d think they would be posting the clips to show how ICE instigated it all and are the direct cause and she was acting totally lawful and such

Weird.

You'd think these ICE agents would have body cameras and would be able to make their case by releasing the video to the public.

 

[GreatSaintGuillotine]

Ok so accelerating with a person in front of your vehicle is harmless and no one would take it possibly take it as threatening violence

She took clear measures to avoid the agent, even reversing and cutting her wheels before accelerating. Shots were fired from the side of the vehicle once no one was in harms way. That's the crux of the issue.

Fleeing with a disregarx for a person.. let alone a leo infront of your vehicle is a threat... you cant run from the cops on public roads and start it with a disreguard for the safety of a officer in front of your vehicle and say theres zero threat to the public or law enforcement....

Again, see above. Clear steps were successful taken to avoid the agent. You can argue reckless driving due to fear. That's valid but still doesn't justify the shot.

being willing to flee in a 2 a half tonne vehicle on public roads makes you a potential threat to everyone. In my personal opinion... let alone the whe person in front of vehicle

By your logic, anyone who drives away from a traffic stop should be shot. I cannot agree with the reasoning you're putting forward.

..... spinning your wheels accelerating with anybody infront of your vehicle is a threat...... in my opinion

You're ignoring other contextual factors that significantly impact how this is viewed in the eyes of the law. Attempts actively being made to avoid someone are critically important when determining if lethal force is justified.

Shoot first and ask questions later is a terrible policy

 

[BFoe]

Just read there are demonstrations and police has fired rubber bullets at people.

I hope protestors are very careful. Trump will no doubt try and paint this as some “violent uprising” and deploy God-knows-who to brutalize people.

 

[sickc0d3r]

You saw my post about how ICE is recruiting and they target NASCAR and UFC fans?

If you don't walk into the interview wearing your tactical sunglasses and black, paratrooper side zip boots, you are wasting everyone's time.