Wing chun is a bad martial art.

  • Thread starter Thread starter pimpstrocity
  • Start date Start date
Vaguely, so what about things revolving around breathing and circular motions promoting ki uptake have to do with this thread? If you were talking about from a health, spiritual, or peace finding aspect I might understand more.

Another question, as far as ki whats your understand of what it is and what do you think about it?

My point was, just because you don't see people live sparring with WC, doesn't mean that it is ineffective in combat. People tend to think that Tai Chi is on the same level of being ineffective and pointless... but I've seen it used in real-life on 2 occasions from somebody who has been taking it for 15 years. Very effective, and I was one who did not think that half of that stuff was even remotely possible.

Just saying... keep an open mind.
 
My point was, just because you don't see people live sparring with WC, doesn't mean that it is ineffective in combat. People tend to think that Tai Chi is on the same level of being ineffective and pointless... but I've seen it used in real-life on 2 occasions from somebody who has been taking it for 15 years. Very effective, and I was one who did not think that half of that stuff was even remotely possible.

Just saying... keep an open mind.

I dont know too much about tai chi, and while it wouldn't be my first choice of arts to study I wont bash it.

I got into an argument with a wing chun sifi or whatever they are called once. He actually mocked me for having a positive opinion of mma. He mocked other arts saying wing chun was superior to things such as boxing, mt, and bjj. He resorted to the old technique of claiming their attacks are too dangerous, that if a bjj guy tried to sub them they could gouge their eyes, or they could punch to the throat of a stand up fighter and follow up with other bullshit.

Also when I spoke on the fact that chain punching tech takes a lot of the power of hip torque and other things out of their punches he went off about that 1 inch punch bullshit. It was sad in retrospect.
 
My friend Justin used to do circular-punching at parties to impress girls.
According to him that's the only use it has.
 
lol Dude we were teenagers and he'd get poontang from doing it (the sly bastard).
 
Wing Chun is a specialized art. Like most specialized arts, if you stay in the one range of fighting they specialize it, then it's effective. If you stay in the other 3, it's nearly useless. I've never understood why some people feel the need to bash entire systems because of thi?. All of them are missing a piece of the puzzle, no style specializes in more than 2 ranges so why bash the ones you're still missing?
 
My point was, just because you don't see people live sparring with WC, doesn't mean that it is ineffective in combat. ...............

Just saying... keep an open mind.

Oh yes it does. If you don't practice your techniques in sparring, how can you hope to pull them off in something as stressful as a real fight? How many times do we see students look incredible on pads but look lost in sparring? Mere sparring? What chance would they have in a real fight?

When I see a traditional stylist win a fight (either youtube video or the few bar fights I have seen), it's always dumb luck. I'm serious. Usually the traditional stylist takes his flashy stance and then gets sucked into a flailing exchange of sloppy, sloppy hay makers. In these fights, it's a 50/50 on who will win and the traditional stylist just happened to come out on top.

You're right, everyone should keep an open mind. But there's keeping an open mind, and then there's entertaining bullshit for the sake of trying to appear fair. If something looks like bullshit, and smells like bullshit, why bother thinking up alternatives that may point to it not being bullshit? Because we have to keep an open mind? How about we just call it what it most likely is- bullshit. I mean, I guess it could be a toblerone..... :rolleyes:
 
He'd use it to brake the ice so to speak.
We be standing around like chumps and he whip out the circular punching
(looked impressive, he was really fast at it).
Inevitably some girl would end up coming over out of curiosity and they'd get talking.
(Not too hard to impress a drunk teenage girl)
Things went from there.
Like a said he was a sly fucker. lol
 
As they say, "when you battle with the crazy and insane all the martial arts go down the drain." Thats why most street fights or even ring fights are ugly.

As for Wing Chun it has been represented in MMA and the guy did get his ass kicked though he was one of the idiots that stands there waiting for his opponent to make a connection so he can do some type of move like in the sticky hands drills.

Those drills have some value but they are not the means to an end which a lot of wing chun people seem to think.....it's only a drill thus shouldn't be taken too seriously and not to be compared to real fighting or even sparring for that matter. It's about how you apply it.

Wing Chun can be effective....for me anyways granted I also do BJJ at a different school WC works and I like it I've sparred boxers, wrestlers and all types of other martial artists many I have beaten and others I have lost to so what. I use what works for me and disregard what doesn't.

As for the early videos those are pieces of traditional forms you could take karate forms (which I have also trained in) or even pieces of muay thai fighters sealing the spirits out of the ring however they do it and make a silly video just the same. I take no offense people rip on everything. To

me it's all about evolving my game and using what I find useful and disregarding what isn't and there are always different strokes for different folks.....
 
I trained Wing Chun for nearly three years. The Chun is something you really have to experience in order to realize it's shortcomings, because on paper it sounds pretty good.

There are many differences between the different lineages, but they do share a major common theme - basing all their techniques and strategies on scientific principles. It's gotten to the point that they ignore alot of the randomness that's found in a live encounter. This is evident from watching any sort of Wing Chun demo, where two practitioners will cross hands in a beautifully choreographed, flowing exchange. Even their chi sao drill, an exercise of sensitivity with a little more resistance than your typical demo, looks pretty nice - lots of bong saos, tan saos, fook saos, and crazy combinations of all the different moves based on a single point of contact. However, it all falls apart when you reintroduce the stochastity - watch a vid of a chunner in competition or ammy fight, and always the top criticism is "what happened to all the chun, that looks like sloppy kickboxing + spazzy chain punching."

Furthermore, there's an emphasis on "the deadly" - ie the bil jee, the knee stomps, the throat knuckle punches, groin stabs, etc. This is often used by most chunners as reasons why Wing Chun is not effective in the ring or cage. If you can't hit a person in the chest or abdomen properly, how do you believe you will manage to hit a person's eyeball? The majority of techniques in ANY system are always the basics, not "the deadlies." IMO one should be able to take the system and apply it to a system of rules like Unified MMA, because it leaves no room for flashiness and flowery nonsense and brings out the effective basics and dependable combinations one can derive. Be able to do that first before even thinking about poking eye balls out and crunching testicles in your fists.

And on top of all that, the Wing Chun culture even hampers its evolution. The system is touted in some lineages as a system that was created from the strengths of other styles in order to allow smaller, weaker fighter to overcome a larger, stronger opponent - and to do so in a relatively minimum amount of training time. So chunners start off with a superiority complex - and the state of politics makes it even worse with the lineage wars. They feel as if their kung fu not only is better than other forms of kung fu from which it originated, but that their specific lineage is better than any other lineage. Hard to embrace change and limitation when that's what's been taught as your system's history from day one. Interestingly enough, with the passing of Helio, we're beginning to see some similar lineage fighting in the Gracie line - if you'd like to see the parallels, go read the "Renzo's response to Relson's comments" thread in the Grappling Subforum...

In any case, we have a system that suffers the typical "TMA" shortcomings: lack of willingness to accept limitation and change with the times, an archaic system that is kept as such by blind adherence to tradition and disregard for proper resistance and pressure testing. Does this go for everyone in Wing Chun? No. Especially in Europe, we are seeing some chunners go through ammy MMA. Does this mean there are no good Wing Chun fighters? No, there are some out there of course by sheer statistics. But the fact of the matter is, when the majority of a system's practitioners cannot or will not use the system to it's fullest potential, when the minority of the practitioners are the ones fighting, then the system as a whole suffers. With Wing Chun, the idea of system vs the fighter doesn't apply, because both are locked in a downward spiral.
 
I actually hold Tai Chi to a higher level than most any other art.

I'm one of those that has a certain distaste for the type of people that Karate breeds. Those people are arrogant asses. And considering the ones that I have been lucky enough to spar with (I do consider atleast that, an honor), it also breeds particularly defenseless people.

Its just a different kind of defence - I will however agree most karateka dont know how to defend themself when the distance is closed however.

In tokyo I was training at the Japan Karate Association HQ with some fantastic instructors and I'd go to Krazy Bee in the evening and use my karate to beat up wrestlers and boxers in MMA sparring. Its well suited to mma because you keep the distance and rely on *sigh* "elusiveness" instead of blocking which as fedor, bj and anderson all noted in their books is pretty dangerous with 4oz gloves.

And I'd like to again emphasize how many hand traps Machida, Fedor and Anderson use, its a lot and it fucks with boxers heads.
 
Wing Chun is a specialized art. Like most specialized arts, if you stay in the one range of fighting they specialize it, then it's effective. If you stay in the other 3, it's nearly useless. I've never understood why some people feel the need to bash entire systems because of thi?. All of them are missing a piece of the puzzle, no style specializes in more than 2 ranges so why bash the ones you're still missing?

Wing Chun specializes in the most uncommon range of fighting, the deadly trapping range.Trapping range is a transitional range between striking range and clinching range, the two stable ranges.

Trapping range is broken by either fighter moving in a step, or moving away.It doesn't give you control over your opponents position, and the window of opportunity to execute a technique in that range is very small, so focusing on it is bullshit.
 
Wing Chun specializes in the most uncommon range of fighting, the deadly trapping range.Trapping range is a transitional range between striking range and clinching range, the two stable ranges.

Trapping range is broken by either fighter moving in a step, or moving away.It doesn't give you control over your opponents position, and the window of opportunity to execute a technique in that range is very small, so focusing on it is bullshit.

Even then they make it seem like a boxer cant hit you at "medium range", as if we cant shorten up our hooks and still throw them with great effect.
 
Wing Chun is not effective? Carlson Gracie disagrees.

[YT]n3jJ-lb7N8A[/YT]


Here it is owning a Kickboxer in training

[YT]xlRPDhuX1DY[/YT]

Here it is owning a fighter in a ring.

[YT]NZ3-Hi-kMNo[/YT]

How can you be so certan that WC doesn't work in mma if it's never been tried before?


TS,

you are a hater and a Troll. Go back under your bridge. Style bashing to the extent that you take it should be considered troll behavior, like fighter bashing, and a banable offense.

All,

If you want to learn something about real WC watch the vids, not the anti wing chun propoganda vids posted by TS. You may also find other Samuel Kwok(The official rep of WC in america from hong kong.) vids online.

lol. that kickboxer is pathetic. he doesnt even fight anything like a MT guy or kickboxer. he is timid and getting slapped by a dude with arm punches. lmao.
 
lol. that kickboxer is pathetic. he doesnt even fight anything like a MT guy or kickboxer. he is timid and getting slapped by a dude with arm punches. lmao.

He may not be a very good kickboxer, he knows enough to attempt an axe kick(that's not common against an unskilled kickboxer), but I suspect that that guy is not even that good at WC, but the techniques worked even though he may not be the greatest.

Its not a flashy style of chineese martial arts(very direct and agressive), slap the arms out of the way and hit the guy, or eyegouge/throatstrike, I can't understand why so many think it's bs. Oh yeah because the gracie's "proved" that any style branded "kung fu" is inefective. Yeah...
 
He may not be a very good kickboxer, but I suspect that that guy is not even that good at WC.

Judgin an art, by matching together two people(who are not well-trained in their arts), is not as effective as it could be... don't you agree?
 
Back
Top