Will the Darce remain a rare MMA choke? (and submission thoughts for MMA)

Kyuktooki said:
Yeah but UFC is not all MMA. It seems like it has been used in Japanese MMA a bit more frequently. Guillotine from half guard seems interesting... was that covered in the MG 4 instructional?
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I know UFC isn't all of MMA but the UFC is all they had stats for.

I acknowledged that Babalu and Johny Hendricks have used the Darce outside of the UFC. Aoki has attempted it. So has Matt Brown and Joe Stevenson. Some Japanese fighters I don't know the names of have finished with it.

The Guillotine from bottom half guard is probably on MGinaction somewhere.

As long as the support elbow is flared up the choke should still be very tight. Top half guard is a different story, and it would be much better to not try to finish the choke until you can escape to side control, or preferably, the full mount.
 
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Kyuktooki said:
Yeah but UFC is not all MMA. It seems like it has been used in Japanese MMA a bit more frequently. Guillotine from half guard seems interesting... was that covered in the MG 4 instructional?
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MG's site is offering a week free. I'm not 100% on this but I believe you can navigate the site and look for the tutorial on guillotines. Someone more familiar with the site please correct me if I'm wrong.

http://www.mginaction.com

Sign in using the promo code: axebjj ....from a UG member posted 2 days ago.
 
Drew Foster said:
Here is a cool article:

UFC Historical Stats Part One: Fight Facts & The King Of All Submissions | Bleacher Report

I want to show ya'll the one with the charts and layouts though. It's no surprise that the top 4 are the guillotine, RNC, armbar, and triangle.

I think the Kimura, heelhook, and arm triangle follow those up.

The anaconda, toe hold, Darce, straight footlock, Americana, etc. make up the "rare' submissions.
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However if you based it on Minowa's fight record, kneebar would probably be the most common. One of many reasons why Minowaman is so goddamn awesome.
 
platfox said:
Guillotines are probably the most common submission but I don't think its because of the control. Unless you hit it when you're already on your back or on your way to your back, you have to give up top position to finish. Also a failed guillotine can leave your arms fatigued.

I would credit it to being the most common because its the easiest to slap on. Just my opinion.
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You are correct. I didn't do a good job of explaining myself. I was envisioning top half or side control, where the guillotine grip almost always leads to mount or a finish. If I can't finish it from the top, I'll insist on the pass or switch to the Darce.

But for the most part, your opinion is completely on point.
 
When Nog tried it on Randy it exploded on Sherdog. Everyone int he heavyweights thought it was some secret move that he made up or something. Happens alot these days :S
 
Supereem said:
When Nog tried it on Randy it exploded on Sherdog. Everyone int he heavyweights thought it was some secret move that he made up or something. Happens alot these days :S
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That was a damn good fight! Lots of close moments on the feet and on the ground.
 
Have you picked up the paper work to get your legal named changed to "Darce Foster" yet?
 
Supereem said:
When Nog tried it on Randy it exploded on Sherdog. Everyone int he heavyweights thought it was some secret move that he made up or something. Happens alot these days :S
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are you serious? I also can't believe Nog couldn't finish Randy with it. Painful fight for me, as theyre both favorites of mine.
 
Dono said:
Have you picked up the paper work to get your legal named changed to "Darce Foster" yet?
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No thanks man, I already have more names and nick names than anyone would ever want:

Andrew, Drew, Foster, White Mike, Miguel Blanco, Rudy, Toby Dynamite, Remo, Burke (my middle name), Ang, Womby, and the list actually goes on. I swear I'm the only person where when I introduce myself to people, I have to pause and decide what to introduce myself as, depending on who is around me and who I'm talking to. In some circles, it would be dumb as hell to call myself White Mike. In others, I've had checks mailed to "Mike Foster" because people thought Mike was my real name. I've been White Mike since 2002 to most people. Go figure....

(I would actually like to change my name on Sherdog to White Mike, but I don't think you can change names here.)
 
I just call it a arm triangle and have it over and done with. It's just variations of the same thing
 
lightw8 said:
are you serious? I also can't believe Nog couldn't finish Randy with it. Painful fight for me, as theyre both favorites of mine.
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Nog is my favorite MMA fighter ever, but I also love Randy. I think Randy is gonna smash James this month. I wonder if Randy will try to stand with him at all, or if he'll just do what Dana said and drive him into the cage, scoop him up, slam him, and squash his head.
 
Foppa21 said:
I just call it a arm triangle and have it over and done with. It's just variations of the same thing
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No offense, but what does that have to do with this thread?

This is about rare subs in MMA, and why the Darce hasn't gotten more popularity. Sure, the Darce is just an arm triangle, but when you say arm triangle, a lot of people think of something else. Darce or Brabo isn't that complicated.

Also, all arm triangles are the same, but they're also not. They're all head-and-arm chokes, but they all have different angles and pressures. That's the reason why some people have great arm triangles but terrible anaconda chokes, etc.

Anyways, this thread is pretty much done.

I'll post back when I find that chart with the numbers of each submission in the UFC's history. It's really cool.
 
If you think about it, the two most common setups for the brabo are the turtle position and half guard. In MMA, if you're turtling you're keeping your arms in tight to defend strikes, so you won't often see brabos from there.

The other option can still happen, but in MMA if you get the underhook from half guard you'll often try to stand up rather than work for a sweep, which also makes it more difficult to get the brabo.
 
platfox said:
Part of me wants to keep it a rare submission in the MMA so that when someone hits it, I still get all gitty like a little school girl.

Its the prettiest submission, imo. No cranking, jamming, or slamming into the position. The entries are usually really smooth and the finishes usually end up with someone unhurt but sleeping. How can you guys not love the darce!
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This is the Brabo Choke we are talking about here? It's pretty much the opposite of what you are saying.
 
I think that it won't take the place of stuff like the RNC or armbar but it'll be up there as an alternative and something people look for.
 
lightw8 said:
are you serious? I also can't believe Nog couldn't finish Randy with it. Painful fight for me, as theyre both favorites of mine.
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Am I serious about what :) ? I remember for the next few weeks after that fight every heavyweights douche decided to be smart and throw a darce reference into random conversation. Same thing when Rogan said "clinic" for the first time in ages. Then all of a sudden there was this huge influx of "clinc" fantasy match ups, fights that were suppose to have been clinics and basically anything that ever happened became a clinic of some description. It happens alot, but the darce one really stuck out to me, because it went from something only ever discussed here in the grappln' forum to everywhere from that one fight.

I hate to sound like an elitist douchebag, but it was so painfully obvious that my groin hurt afterwards...
 
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