Why mma fans have such a hard time accepting that the sport evolves?

[Bend NvR Break]

I don't get it is it the stakes the sport presents and sherdogers are too invested in the fighters and not the sport? I mean people pretty much accept this in other sports, as much as pele was a important soccer player people woudn't dare to compare him to ronaldo skill for skill cause the sport is much more competitive and different now.
Mma right now is bigger than ever right now with a way bigger talent pool than back in the days, still somehow the narrative perpetuated on sherdog by some is that some divisions are worse nowadays... Which its impossible to prove but mathematically it should be way off since talent coming to the mma world is more common now.
Anyway discuss.

We had actual fighters before.

Now divisions are full of athletes not looking to lose.

 

[youllneverwalkalone]

Everyone wants to think that everything was the best when they got into it. It's why parent hate their kids music. I still feel like video games peaked with the Super Nintendo.

This pretty much sums it up. The problem is people cannot separate the dimension of their own enjoyment ("better" as in "I enjoy it more") from objective quality.

It's fine for anyone to say they enjoyed e.g. LHW more during the Tito/Chuck era than during the DC/Jones era, without feeling compelled to argue that Chuck and Tito are "better" fighters than Bones and DC.

 

[Masturbin]

Because some divisions are shadow of their former self.

LHW being the worse.

Prime Jones
Prime DC
Prime AJ
Prime Gus
Prime Glover

would all dominate the current division

 

[Oceanmachine]

The HW division has certainly been better in the past same goes for the LHW division in the UFC but the LHW division looks like it will be much better in a few years since there are a lot of young but mostly unproven guys now.

Athlete wise HW is better now (and especially was when Brock, Cormier, Reem, and Ex NFL guys were in like Mitrione or other wrestlers Carwin) but skill wise and martial arts knowledge HW was better in Pride and right after the Stikeforce UFC merger.

But Pride HWs were largelly LHWs weighing 225lbs to 235lbs, or a flabby 240 to 245lbs. For some reason the Pride HW didnt hit the juice in high doses cause none of them were as jacked or cut up as the LHWs were.

There was not a big difference between Prime Wanderlei weighing 225lbs and Fedor being 233lbs but chubbier. Or Mark Coleman in the low 230s, Randleman in the high 220s yet fighting at HW. Same with Cro Cop who never weighed noeth of 230lbs, Barrnett a chubby 250lbs, Sergei a 245lbs, Werdum a green 240lbs, Big Nog in the low 230s and flabby. Rampage also used to be 230ish and fought at LHW, same with Reem before he became Ubereem, Reem was 230ish as well and would gas as for him it was a big weight cut.

That's just you personally being burned out - particularly since you say you feel that way about all sports, not just the UFC. I'm there too, and I'm sure a lot of people who have been around since the TUF years (or earlier!) are also feeling fatigue.

When I first encountered the UFC, it was incredibly novel. It was all the fighting you see in movies, but actual people actually competing. I started to recognize the stars of the time, but it didn't matter - any time I got to catch some "ultimate fighting" was a good time. But now, after 15-20 years of that, not to mention a full decade seeing multiple cards each month and being active in an MMA forum, it's just another sport. I'll watch it if it's on, and I'll get people together for a decent PPV, but I certainly don't need to sit down and watch every card from start to finish anymore. And that's okay.

Yeah dont watch every card. I dont I follow highlights, and watch big cards only and only tune in really for the main cards or fighters I like.

I used to watch the entire card back in early 2010s but back then the cards were more rare nor every week or 2 and were more stacked. With I swear less pull outs by fighters

 

[kflo]

Because some divisions are shadow of their former self.

LHW being the worse.

Prime Jones
Prime DC
Prime AJ
Prime Gus
Prime Glover

would all dominate the current division

That’s because you don’t know how good Prime Jiri, Prime Rakic, Prime Ankalaev will be. There’s no reason to put prime aj, Gus or glover on a pedestal either.

 

[west42]

Tell me you don't miss joe rogan screaming "!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!IT'S OVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" and shooting his load whenever a fighter brushed his forearm against his opponent's neck, then goldie''s stupid ass throwing out wrong names of submissions and fuckups in general.

 

[Fraz]

They are still thousands of years away from evolving into sherdoggers

 

[cmw43]

This is what i don't get it lol, i can at least understand people ranking the boxing hw division of the 80's and 90's higher than today cause boxing arguably was bigger back then, but for mma is ridicolous you just need to see how much bigger the ufc figures get by year i even seen the argument that divisions today are "bloated" with fighters and because of this the average level today is lower... Does this people really understand the difference in the amount of people who watch/pratice mma today compared to 15 years ago? Some folks are taking the ufc is dying meme seriously

The 2011 HW top 10 would wreck the current top 10.

JDS
Cain
Overeem
Werdum
Brock
Mir
Nog
Barnett
DC
Bigfoot

Vs

Francis
Gane
Stipe
Black Beast
Blaydes
Volkov
Rozenstruik
Shamal
Tybura
Sakai

 

[Masturbin]

That’s because you don’t know how good Prime Jiri, Prime Rakic, Prime Ankalaev will be. There’s no reason to put prime aj, Gus or glover on a pedestal either.

Well if post Prime Glover is the number one contender it's not far-fetched to guess Prime Glover would dominate the contenders.
As for AJ and Gus seeing their results against elite competion it's also very probable they would easily wreck the division

 

[Th3Sav4ge]

I don't get it is it the stakes the sport presents and sherdogers are too invested in the fighters and not the sport? I mean people pretty much accept this in other sports, as much as pele was a important soccer player people woudn't dare to compare him to ronaldo skill for skill cause the sport is much more competitive and different now.
Mma right now is bigger than ever right now with a way bigger talent pool than back in the days, still somehow the narrative perpetuated on sherdog by some is that some divisions are worse nowadays... Which its impossible to prove but mathematically it should be way off since talent coming to the mma world is more common now.
Anyway discuss.

everything is situational. would you say peter yan is a more skilled fighter than when cruz was healthy and champ? has figgy or moreno evolved past mighty mouse?

 

[DizzyYeahYeah]

I don't even get OP's point?

Yes, a larger pool of fighters and MMA being more popular will produce more talented fighters, elite fighters and also shit fighters/cans.

Generational talent isn't popping up everywhere. There will be a few fighters that will be dominant and become champion but that has been going on forever and is a small group compared to total number of fighters.

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

Yep. Nostalgia is a hell of a drug. I miss the old UFC days too, but I have no delusions that the sport hasn't evolved past Wanderlei’s wild hooks and Chuck stumbling around the cage. Remember, these were the top 2 ranked LHWs at the time, plus Shogun who’s technique was better but cardio and durability were suspect…

The level of competition is better today and thats just a fact.

Your description of Shogun is Shogun when he was passed his best. This is not a nostalgia thing like everyone is claiming it is newer fans having only seen great fighters after they had declined assuming they were always like that.

For the majority of Shogun's career he had an iron chin and great cardio. Wanderlei used to use his jab and kicks as well as takedowns but as he got older he became more one dimensional same goes for Rampage who used to wrestle a lot before he had too many injuries.

LHW is improving but it has been better in the past, same goes for HW.

 

[kyunghee]

I would dare to compare Pele and Ronaldo skill for skill.Skills arent what make Ronaldo stands out.The bad example aside I would agree with your point.

 

[Bangkok ready d1]

everything is situational. would you say peter yan is a more skilled fighter than when cruz was healthy and champ? has figgy or moreno evolved past mighty mouse?

First one yes, seccond one im not sure but it would be competitive

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

everything is situational. would you say peter yan is a more skilled fighter than when cruz was healthy and champ? has figgy or moreno evolved past mighty mouse?

This saying everyone is just better cause it is newer isn't right. Some division have gotten better but some aren't as good as they once were.

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

Because some divisions are shadow of their former self.

LHW being the worse.

Prime Jones
Prime DC
Prime AJ
Prime Gus
Prime Glover

would all dominate the current division

Bader and Davis were also in that same division as well. I can't believe anyone honestly believes LHW is better now than the time period you are talking about. Having said that I do think LHW will be much better than it is now in 2 years as the younger LHWs get more experience.

 

[PalmStrike]

The short answer is nostalgia bias combined with glory days syndrome, combined with the idea that evolution generally impacts the average/middle of a distribution more than the superstars (it's easier to improve non-extreme values than extreme values), combined with the idea that some glamor divisions probably haven't evolved in the last dozen years in a meaningful manner, if at all.

There's also the idea that evolution/technical skill often doesn't correlate to having "fun" fights per se.

Its not nostalgia.

Here, ill throw out a random fight from 20 years ago...watch it and then explain to me how far the game has evolved since then.

Let see, ill go with:

Pride 19 - 2002
Carlos Newton vs Pele

 

[PalmStrike]

We had actual fighters before.

Now divisions are full of athletes not looking to lose.

I wish I could give this post 100 likes.

 

[Bend NvR Break]

Bader and Davis were also in that same division as well. I can't believe anyone honestly believes LHW is better now than the time period you are talking about. Having said that I do think LHW will be much better than it is now in 2 years as the younger LHWs get more experience.

Thank you. I was just having this argument with @kflo. He tired saying this generation of LHW is good.

I told him the current UFC 205 division is a raging dumpster fire.

 

[fortheo]

I don't think anyone denied that there's been an evolution of this sport since it's beginnings. It's just that some people think it evolves far faster than it really does.

Some people think that it evolves so quickly that top fighters from a decade ago wouldn't be top fighters today, and that the skillsets of top fighters today>> that of top fighters from a decade ago.

This I disagree with. The sport is evolving, but not THAT quickly. Hell, you have top fighters from a decade ago that are STILL top fighters now despite being past their prime.