Why mma fans have such a hard time accepting that the sport evolves?

Cristiano Ronaldo and Pele cant be in the same sentence. Only if you wanna say Pele >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ronaldo. Not my fault If you havent seen Pele in action, but those who have seen both in action have absolutely no doubt about it. Also Ronaldinho >>>>> Cristiano, Ronaldo >>>>>>>> Cristiano, just to clear the mud.
That said, yes, as the sport grows more and more talented fighters we have.
Im just hoping we get a new Fedor, a new Andy, really showmakers. These 'old' styled guys would completely dominate their weight classes NOW with the skill lvl they had back in the day

Pele comes from a different era and would not be fair to compare him to present day footballers. CR7, Ronaldinho and Ronaldo can be compared and objectively, CR7 has surpassed them long ago in pretty much every way.

If you are more of a fan of those two that's fine, but it's a matter of personal preferences.
 
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The Pele/Ronaldo comparison makes no sense because the time frame between Pele and Ronaldos era is longer than the entire length of time that MMA has been around. When people talk about a division being better in a different era they pretty much exclusively point to a time frame within the last 15 years, its not distant history. Ronaldo himself has been playing for 20 years ffs.
 
Same reason why Ali and Tyson would still do well in today's Boxing HW div. Sometimes a special talent emerges. And it's always "he was ahead of his time". Clocking folks with ease. Footwork and agility at HW never seen before and some could say since.

For UFC "The evolution of sport", "The new breed", started around 2010, in Brock's Time, and was a selling point, that the grow in skill would be side-by-side with the growing numbers they bring in. Yet, one is ability, the other is business, and those 2 don't match at all.

At any point a BJ Penn-type fighter can come along and shock in his first 5 fights. Already on elite level in all areas. It has been like this for decades.

I read a post today saying UFC has 1100 fighters on the roster. Even when they had 600 you could see 2 regional fighters going at it in the UFC. Now it's twice that bad.

So you can only see the difference when every div has about 20 fighters on the roster. Because what was the top 10 in past years is now the top 15. A small climb from 20 to 15 rank. But the opponent is tough.
 
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The UFC is completely watered down. There's lots of base-stat-CAF fighters more in what's supposed to be the best MMA organization in the world. Maybe some champs today would stomp the previous guys but there hasn't really been anything revolutionary in the last 10 years. Silva is still the greatest striker and Fedor is the greatest heavyweight for example.
 
True. Look at the guys fighting for the LHW belt next. Gus beat them both (in 2016 and 2017).
And he entered his prime pretty much when the belt ceased to change hands. Before Jones won the title it was a stacked division, so many good match-ups back then.
The problem is they all grew too old pretty much at the same time, and now we have these guys in the top that DC and Rumble would have murked.
The division today is comparable to the division when jones won the title. People just don’t want to admit it. It’s funny, after jones won the title many whined about everyone being washed up.

The lhw division right now is in a good spot. Yes, 2 older guys are fighting for the title, but behind them are some exciting big dangerous fighters.

This was the top 10 in aug 2010:

  1. Mauricio “Shogun” Rua (19-4)
  2. Lyoto Machida (16-1)
  3. Rashad Evans (15-1-1)
  4. Quinton Jackson (30-8)
  5. Forrest Griffin (17-6)
  6. Antonio Rogerio Nogueira (19-3)
  7. Thiago Silva (14-2)
  8. Ryan Bader (11-0)
  9. Matt Hamill (9-2)
  10. Jon Jones (10-1)
Shogun became mediocre overnight (but still gave us some great wars). Machida went 3-3 at lhw before moving down. Rashad went 3-4 before moving down. Rampage went 2-3 and went to bellator. Forrest beat franklin, got finished by shogun and beat Tito and retired. Lil nog wasn’t very relevant. Thiago was a mess. Hamill was done as a contender. The #10 guy went on to dominate from there. It all happened relatively quickly.

Judging today’s lhw when you have guys like jiri, rakic, ankalaev, reyes all still with upside (and all clearly very good already) in their careers is a bit premature. Jan is performing at a high level. I can’t look at that top 9 from aug 2010 and put it on a pedestal against today’s crew. I’m sure the top 10 will again look different in a few years. As will bellator’s.

And not sure why it’s hard to believe Jan is fighting at a higher level now than when he faced Gus…..
 
Youngster? Noob?

Compared to the 90's it is evolved, but not much after that.

More talent 2005-2010. Especially LHW and HW, which were immensely more talented then.

Since there are no competing orgs really these days, you have to use the whole MMA scene of the era (Pride and UFC); combined those blow away what we have in UFC today. That era was WAY better.
Ask yourself why. Why would lhw be better 15 years ago than today. Why would a sport closer to its infancy with less financial resources and participation be immensely more talented? Maybe you’re eyes deceive you…..
 
The division today is comparable to the division when jones won the title. People just don’t want to admit it. It’s funny, after jones won the title many whined about everyone being washed up.

The lhw division right now is in a good spot. Yes, 2 older guys are fighting for the title, but behind them are some exciting big dangerous fighters.

This was the top 10 in aug 2010:

  1. Mauricio “Shogun” Rua (19-4)
  2. Lyoto Machida (16-1)
  3. Rashad Evans (15-1-1)
  4. Quinton Jackson (30-8)
  5. Forrest Griffin (17-6)
  6. Antonio Rogerio Nogueira (19-3)
  7. Thiago Silva (14-2)
  8. Ryan Bader (11-0)
  9. Matt Hamill (9-2)
  10. Jon Jones (10-1)
Shogun became mediocre overnight (but still gave us some great wars). Machida went 3-3 at lhw before moving down. Rashad went 3-4 before moving down. Rampage went 2-3 and went to bellator. Forrest beat franklin, got finished by shogun and beat Tito and retired. Lil nog wasn’t very relevant. Thiago was a mess. Hamill was done as a contender. The #10 guy went on to dominate from there. It all happened relatively quickly.

Judging today’s lhw when you have guys like jiri, rakic, ankalaev, reyes all still with upside (and all clearly very good already) in their careers is a bit premature. Jan is performing at a high level. I can’t look at that top 9 from aug 2010 and put it on a pedestal against today’s crew. I’m sure the top 10 will again look different in a few years. As will bellator’s.

And not sure why it’s hard to believe Jan is fighting at a higher level now than when he faced Gus…..


Its sherdog people dont evolve... But for real the disrespect of the current lhw division is laughable i have no idea on how the mid 2000 lhw division became this overreated, jones is having a harder time now for a reason and as much as people don't want to accept it a guy like racik would probably run trough most if not all the guys back then
 
Because most sherdoggers are nostalgic pride fanboys that are still living in the past.
Not all of us are Pride fanboys. Sadly the sport has evolved but evolution is not always a good thing. Most fighters are more well rounded now but that can lead to boring fights, when you have guys that are ok at boxing, ok at defending the takedown, and ok at nullifying each other if the fight goes to the ground it gets boring really quickly. In the early days of the UFC guys were one dimensional so you had excitement of the kickboxer versus the wrestler or the brawler versus the TKD fighter. Now you have guys that have basic knowledge in a lot of areas but lack the ability to excel in any of them because they have train in so many areas. Another issue for a lot of people is over saturation. The UFC is putting on a lot of cards each year which seems great but they have to bring in a lot of fighters to do it and that takes us back to level of the fighters now. You have basic guys and gals now who don't really deserve to be in the octagon but they are signed and used as filler. I know we need undercard fights but some of the people are very lackluster. At the least the UFC should consider bringing cans in to pad promising fighters records a bit and give entertaining fights to the fans. Boxing does it and many of us would like to see some of the old school style mismatches that lead to glorious knockouts and amazing submissions.
 
Ask yourself why. Why would lhw be better 15 years ago than today. Why would a sport closer to its infancy with less financial resources and participation be immensely more talented? Maybe you’re eyes deceive you…..

This is what i don't get it lol, i can at least understand people ranking the boxing hw division of the 80's and 90's higher than today cause boxing arguably was bigger back then, but for mma is ridicolous you just need to see how much bigger the ufc figures get by year i even seen the argument that divisions today are "bloated" with fighters and because of this the average level today is lower... Does this people really understand the difference in the amount of people who watch/pratice mma today compared to 15 years ago? Some folks are taking the ufc is dying meme seriously
 
I don't get it is it the stakes the sport presents and sherdogers are too invested in the fighters and not the sport? I mean people pretty much accept this in other sports, as much as pele was a important soccer player people woudn't dare to compare him to ronaldo skill for skill cause the sport is much more competitive and different now.
Mma right now is bigger than ever right now with a way bigger talent pool than back in the days, still somehow the narrative perpetuated on sherdog by some is that some divisions are worse nowadays... Which its impossible to prove but mathematically it should be way off since talent coming to the mma world is more common now.
Anyway discuss.
Dude- respectfully- you really dont know what you're talking about. UFC/ WME are doing well but nothing to do with the " talent pool". Dana has a business model and hes sticking to it. If it doesn't fit , then u dont fit or u take it with a smile. Lol, it's new fans that dont know any better and thank God for Dana / WME. 2008- 2017 , we saw divisions and their top 10 fighters able to afford to not only go to top gyms but bring in the top talent to get prepared.

This is why from 170 & up, depth is a problem. Dont confuse the dollars thst the UFC is bringing in from PPVs( they are ESPN domain ed with a new legion of fans) with talent pools.

MMA is not like other sports.Dana has his contender series and is creative in who and how he promotes.

He'll continue to make signings and hopefully the t.p sticks to the wall. Hopefully they're are more Gane s out there.

Itll be interesting with live gates on these continued watered down fight nights. He can only spread his talent/ draws so much. Right now, the ppvs are his bread & butter so that's what he'll sit on.

Hes a promoter/ salesman and does a pretty good job at that.
 
All I see in this thread is a bunch of nostalgic boomers.

If you’d watch MMA for the first time in this day and age you’d have just as much of a great time as you did when you discovered it in your own time.
Yep. Nostalgia is a hell of a drug. I miss the old UFC days too, but I have no delusions that the sport hasn't evolved past Wanderlei’s wild hooks and Chuck stumbling around the cage. Remember, these were the top 2 ranked LHWs at the time, plus Shogun who’s technique was better but cardio and durability were suspect…

The level of competition is better today and thats just a fact.
 
seems there is lot more cans than there was before
I’m pretty sure putting on 40 cards per year as compared to the 10-12 back then has something to do with that. Plus for the average fighter back then they all fought 2-3 times per year. That just doesn’t jive with the model we see now. At least not at the highest levels.

I like watching fights almost every Saturday night. And I watch them all. But, of course I’d rather see big names on every card. They are spread very thin now. And this is the cross we must carry. If you like watching the fights. Today’s model is better. Just enjoy it for what it is. Or just opt out. It seems the UFC is still making money. So it’s never going back. Evolve or get left behind. Or just walk away..that will always be an option.
 
I just don’t enjoy watching it as much anymore. Maybe it’s the twitter popups, the horrible commentary, or the awful force-fed wmma fights.

Same with all sports these days. I don’t bother. It wasn’t even TUF that ruined it as I watched like the first 10 seasons of those.

Every fighter is just the same, or close to the same. Imagine playing streetfighter or MK and the characters are all the same. I opt these days to actually partake in fighting instead of watching.

That's just you personally being burned out - particularly since you say you feel that way about all sports, not just the UFC. I'm there too, and I'm sure a lot of people who have been around since the TUF years (or earlier!) are also feeling fatigue.

When I first encountered the UFC, it was incredibly novel. It was all the fighting you see in movies, but actual people actually competing. I started to recognize the stars of the time, but it didn't matter - any time I got to catch some "ultimate fighting" was a good time. But now, after 15-20 years of that, not to mention a full decade seeing multiple cards each month and being active in an MMA forum, it's just another sport. I'll watch it if it's on, and I'll get people together for a decent PPV, but I certainly don't need to sit down and watch every card from start to finish anymore. And that's okay.
 
I don't get it is it the stakes the sport presents and sherdogers are too invested in the fighters and not the sport? I mean people pretty much accept this in other sports, as much as pele was a important soccer player people woudn't dare to compare him to ronaldo skill for skill cause the sport is much more competitive and different now.
Mma right now is bigger than ever right now with a way bigger talent pool than back in the days, still somehow the narrative perpetuated on sherdog by some is that some divisions are worse nowadays... Which its impossible to prove but mathematically it should be way off since talent coming to the mma world is more common now.
Anyway discuss.

Nostalgia. I only maintain that MMA wont evolve much more in skill level but only athletes and conditioning will be better across the board. In 20 years every fighter wont be as well rounded or p4p as talented and complete as Jon Jones, Mighty Mouse, Fedor etc. Even in 100 years they wont. But the athletes will be surely more explosive

But regarding MMA now especially UFC it is better. The sport has been cleaned up, we are trending towards more rules elimination, and have less rules now then before. We also are trending to the ONE FC ruleset and weight cut banning. We have these Performance institutes designed to find the best athletes and train them for MMA.

Performanfe centers in Mexico, US and China and eventually surely in Brazil and Russia.

Commentators are better now and are actual fighters. Who can possibly regard Mike goldberg and only Joe Rogan as superior?

Being on ESPN is better and gives great North American coverage and attracts more fans and athletes
 
I don't get it is it the stakes the sport presents and sherdogers are too invested in the fighters and not the sport? I mean people pretty much accept this in other sports, as much as pele was a important soccer player people woudn't dare to compare him to ronaldo skill for skill cause the sport is much more competitive and different now.


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Absolutely no way people accept this, not in America certainly.
 
I think most sports (at least in the USA) are shooting for parity, especially with salary caps and luxury taxes, and in the 4 major U.S. sports (MLB, NFL, NBA, NHL) it does make the league better and more exciting to watch. I'm mma there is no salary cap to make things more equal but the fact that the new guys train in all aspects of the sport does create some kind of parity which makes the sport more boring some times. I think it's so much harder to have 1 dominant guy now compared to even 10 years ago. And I think when you have that 1 dominant guy it make the sport better for the fans. Without that dominant guy you need personalities and then you get the Conors and Colbys of the world.
 
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