Why isnt there more Karate in UFC?

[Hotora86]

I always found it funny have leg kicks beneath the knee are allowed in sports karate, throws are allowed, even brief ground and pound is allowed, but thigh kicks? No sirrrrrr

Kyokushin, Ashihara, Shidokan, Seidokaikan, Kudo and multiple other styles of Karate allow thigh kicks.

 

[fortheo]

Kyokushin, Ashihara, Shidokan, Seidokaikan, Kudo and multiple other styles of Karate allow thigh kicks.

In their competitions?

*edit* I just watched some videos and you're right. That's good to know.

 

[Tito Tapped]

 

[TheAlliance]

 

[23rd Century Sweetheart]

Has anybody mentioned Cejudo's excellent implementation of the karate stance when he started training with the Pitbull brothers? I believe they had a coach by the name of Mano Santana who specifically taught karate.

Like some other posters have mentioned, most guys will begin with a base in karate but Cejudo is an anomaly and brought it into play when he started hitting his MMA prime

 

[LC Shepard]

Karate is too effective and deadly.

Most of the karate moves are banned for safety reasons. That is why a muay thai (a more layman martial art) is more common.

 

[Dirty Frank]

Because in UFC the boards hit back

 

[Hotora86]

Has anybody mentioned Cejudo's excellent implementation of the karate stance when he started training with the Pitbull brothers? I believe they had a coach by the name of Mano Santana who specifically taught karate.

Like some other posters have mentioned, most guys will begin with a base in karate but Cejudo is an anomaly and brought it into play when he started hitting his MMA prime

Good call!
Vitor Belfort also trained Karate to supplement his game.

 

[Kyd Blake]

It's from their competition history and having problems with kickboxers/muay thai fighters. They expose holes in their striking games and many karate style fighters can't adjust to those striking styles. Some do, but many don't and a lot prefer not to compete vs them. That's what limits karate based fighters the most, is them wanting to just compete with other karate style fighters instead of competing vs all high level strikers. This is why they don't fix the holes in their striking game overall because they want to compete with only fighters with a similar striking style as them.

As much as I hate to say it, the Machida/Shogun fights (especially the first one) gave most MMA fighters the blueprint on how to beat a karate style fight with great TDD. The wide stance leaves them open for various Muay Thai kick counters to the leg and body as Shogun showed and also showed openings to quick punch counters should a karate fighter miss their hard hand strikes which leaves them vulnerable and open a lot of times. Also, with kickboxers/boxers karate is more of a strong counter striking heavy style and (usually) absolutely blows in the pocket and likely lacks the handspeed of a pure high level boxer or kickboxer. And of course, the wide stance is prime pickings for a clean double leg takedown or trip at anytime if the users stance isnt adjusted correctly for the incoming shot/trip in which they must drop their hands a bit and thus leave themselves open to body and head hand strikes.

One really has to appreciate pivotal karate MMA practitioners that showed how and how not to do to apply karate techniques to succeed in MMA: Lyoto Machida, Stephen Thompson, and Chuck Liddell. These 3 fighters (especially Machida) were extremely innovative and competitive in their respective divisions and defeated almost every striker they fought against that weren't absolute high level Muay Thai masters (Shogun/Liddell) or good to great wrestlers with solid enough striking who could keep them honest and made them lower their usually high hand guard to defend possible takedowns (Machida/Brunson). Granted all 3 of these guys have been victim to some very brutal and eye-opening KOs (sans the Thompson/Pettis fluke) or just outgrappled, but I dont remember any of them being absolutely beatdown and/or dominated from bell to bell or outright starched in a round except Liddell a couple times. Id add GSP to the list as well, but his main key to success was wrestling and TDD over actual karate style striking at the forefront, especially abandoning standup engagement post Serra upset.

I really appreciate karate fighters holding their own in MMA to an extent, cus although truthfully Muay Thai is usually more effective, and fighter who has a karate base with complete knowledge of Muay Thai, elite TDD and a good to elite ground game is almost completely unbeatable due to the defensive and offensive striking repertoire one has at his disposal. The closest thing id say to that currently is Robert Whittaker (who of course lost to Thompson lol) and even he fell to the elite kickboxing style of Adesanya (upcoming rematch will be fun). Other than a GSP wrestler type with great striking, I think the aforementioned defensive oriented karate/Muay Thai striker with elite TDD and a great ground game is the nastiest combination a fighter can have and is virtually unbeatable.

 

[FIghtxIQ]

As much as I hate to say it, the Machida/Shogun fights (especially the first one) gave most MMA fighters the blueprint on how to beat a karate style fight with great TDD. The wide stance leaves them open for various Muay Thai kick counters to the leg and body as Shogun showed and also showed openings to quick punch counters should a karate fighter miss their hard hand strikes which leaves them vulnerable and open a lot of times. Also, with kickboxers/boxers karate is more of a strong counter striking heavy style and (usually) absolutely blows in the pocket and likely lacks the handspeed of a pure high level boxer or kickboxer. And of course, the wide stance is prime pickings for a clean double leg takedown or trip at anytime if the users stance isnt adjusted correctly for the incoming shot/trip in which they must drop their hands a bit and thus leave themselves open to body and head hand strikes.

One really has to appreciate pivotal karate MMA practitioners that showed how and how not to do to apply karate techniques to succeed in MMA: Lyoto Machida, Stephen Thompson, and Chuck Liddell. These 3 fighters (especially Machida) were extremely innovative and competitive in their respective divisions and defeated almost every striker they fought against that weren't absolute high level Muay Thai masters (Shogun/Liddell) or good to great wrestlers with solid enough striking who could keep them honest and made them lower their usually high hand guard to defend possible takedowns (Machida/Brunson). Granted all 3 of these guys have been victim to some very brutal and eye-opening KOs (sans the Thompson/Pettis fluke) or just outgrappled, but I dont remember any of them being absolutely beatdown and/or dominated from bell to bell or outright starched in a round except Liddell a couple times. Id add GSP to the list as well, but his main key to success was wrestling and TDD over actual karate style striking at the forefront, especially abandoning standup engagement post Serra upset.

I really appreciate karate fighters holding their own in MMA to an extent, cus although truthfully Muay Thai is usually more effective, and fighter who has a karate base with complete knowledge of Muay Thai, elite TDD and a good to elite ground game is almost completely unbeatable due to the defensive and offensive striking repertoire one has at his disposal. The closest thing id say to that currently is Robert Whittaker (who of course lost to Thompson lol) and even he fell to the elite kickboxing style of Adesanya (upcoming rematch will be fun). Other than a GSP wrestler type with great striking, I think the aforementioned defensive oriented karate/Muay Thai striker with elite TDD and a great ground game is the nastiest combination a fighter can have and is virtually unbeatable.

Yes I agree on all points. Karate style fighters found a way to make it successful in mma and full contact but their weakness is still muay thai/kickboxers. They also don't focus on their boxing much and are usually single strikes or 2 - 3 strikes straight punch blitzes like what Thompson always throws. Whittaker is a great example as well, his muay thai could be improved though, it would definitely strengthen his hapkido/karate base striking style.

That is the key that a lot don't realize, it's mixing all the striking styles. People are still trying to make their base styles effective instead of learning them all and patching up the holes that way. Either way easier said than done, and that's most likely the reasoning behind it. People are used to the styles they use and may not be able to adjust to a different style of striking. It's like learning everything all over again and many fighters may not be open to that since it would require developing brand new muscle memory and instincts/reactions.

 

[Choco]

Watch some GSP interviews, he give his Karate Background alot of credit for developing his striking accuracy, timing and his footwork.

ffs man he always walked out like this

You can wear the fancy costume you like, but if you use a textbook boxing jabs and single or double leg take downs plus top control as your bread an butter, you're not using karate.

GSP relation with karate is very emotional due to his father and his late former trainer, and he might be right regarding the developmet od his atlheticism and donfidence, but he could have use soccer, handball, gymnastics or surf (No kidding, Rockhold still says that he got his stance from sufing, and the Oldskool BJJ crew all surfed).

Like Kioyi, all those tender scenes with his ailing old master (RiP) in the Rizin confessions, but his style is a CARBON COPY of what his former coach and stablemaster since his teens (Kioyi almost lived in th Krazy Bee gym as a late teen), the late and soreley missed lifelong wrestler turn striking leyend Kid Yamamoto.

Karate is the most bastardized family of martial arts ever, means nothing and everything at the same time.

It takes a lot more time to refine Karate than does boxing.

This is silly, everything done to the highest levek is difficult. If boxing was so easy, why none MMA artist not raised in the style or Kb could box for shit until relatively recent times? Or why not a single MMA fighter has ever transitioned to anything close to elite boxing?. With all those fighters all complaining all day about fighters pay, just don't transition and make millions?

Even very succesful dominant multi-division boxing champions thirved on athleticism, toughness chin and power, but aren't truly refined technicians.

 

[Hotora86]

There are more MMA fighters holding blackbelts in Karate than there are fighters holding blackbelts (or equivalent) in TKD, Judo, Aikido, Hapkido, Sumo, Sambo, Wing Chun, Tai Chi, Sanda, Wushu, Silat, Arnis, Savate, Lethwei, Krav Maga, Defendo, Combatives, Bokator, Bando, Capoeira, Japanese Jujitsu, Jeet Kune Do and other arts.

So if you go by pure statistics you can make a case for Karate being the #5 most common martial art in MMA after boxing/kickboxing, MT, BJJ and wrestling.

 

[rstringer]

There are more MMA fighters holding blackbelts in Karate than there are fighters holding blackbelts (or equivalent) in TKD, Judo, Aikido, Hapkido, Sumo, Sambo, Wing Chun, Tai Chi, Sanda, Wushu, Silat, Arnis, Savate, Lethwei, Krav Maga, Defendo, Combatives, Bokator, Bando, Capoeira, Japanese Jujitsu, Jeet Kune Do and other arts.

So if you go by pure statistics you can make a case for Karate being the #5 most common martial art in MMA after boxing/kickboxing, MT, BJJ and wrestling.

Given the influx of Dagestani fighters, this is probably no longer true as most of them have a Sambo background.

 

[tomjones]

There's plenty of great karate fighters but unfortunately they don't have the grappling ability to compete in the ufc.

 

[Hotora86]

Given the influx of Dagestani fighters, this is probably no longer true as most of them have a Sambo background.

I will gladly admit that I am wrong if you have a list of 164 Sambo blackbelts in MMA handy.

 

[rstringer]

I will gladly admit that I am wrong if you have a list of 164 Sambo blackbelts in MMA handy.

How did you get 164?

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

Karate is an extremely effective Martial Arts and it can be adapted well into mma.

Notable Karate strikers in UFCs history

Robert Whittaker, former champ
Lyoto Machida, former champ
GSP, some say goat, but definitely one of top 3 all time greats
Kyoji Horicuchi, Rizin champ, UFC contender
Gunnar Nelson, solid fighter in wrong weight class
Stephen Wonderbread Thompson, consistent top 5 welterweight
Conor Mcgregor in his prime used some karate elements in Boxing.
------

Karate is clearly very effective and I am surprised more fighters dont use it. So my question is where is all the karate talent at?

Mma just seems overrun with muay thai and Boxing style striking

It's largely ineffective.

 

[ticho123]

Probably has to do with training practices and the rules of competition. Karate has alot of value in MMA when fighting at a distance especially with that wide stance and emphasize on dodging rather than blocking which works well with the small gloves. But lack of full contact sparring and a rule-set which disallows punches to the head and clinching hurts it

The reason there isn't a lot is because there isn't a lot of legit karate dojos teaching full contact karate. A lot is bullshit-do style. They don't do full contact training/sparring so they will never get into any type of full combat sport. The ones that did do full contact training/competition usually find their way into mma.

A lot also don't train it because it's not one of the 4 basic mma mixtures that people are used to seeing. It's usually boxing/kickboxing, wrestling, bjj as the basic base that is taught for mma. Those are the styles you'll see at most mma gyms. So if people wanted to actually train/learn karate they would have to learn it separately and have to also find one that can teach it in a way to be effective for mma. Which is also difficult because most karate style fighters stay away from mma/kickboxing/muay thai because those striking styles can exploit their striking style if they don't cross trai

Just look at the skill level at Karate Combat and compare it to high level kickboxing/mma striking. There is a reason why Karate Combat doesn't allow thigh kicks. They don't want kickboxers/muay thai based fighters fighting karate style fighter

Karate can be effective, but cross training is needed in order to know how to properly apply it. It isn't effective by itself because there are too many holes in it's striking game vs the modern striking combat martial arts who's whole martial arts is based on full contact competition.

So basically this

 

[kingmob6]

^^^^^^This

y'all both are newbs, that's why you think karate is not very good. It's one of the most effective striking bases to transition to mma and pair with grappling. Karate has so many advanced and effective tools, and there been like hundred very good mma fighters with karate base.

 

[kingmob6]

Most styles in Karate are not there for competition if i am not mistaken, like Shokotan?

you are mistaken. Shotokan has komite tournaments. But shotokan schools and effectivenes just like with the rest of karate, will depend largely on the school you go to. Some are uber traditional (soft) and some are on the other side with full-contact trained.