why isnt the muay thai pushkick/teep used

[ARIZE]

Front kick, Teep, and push kick are 3 different things...
Simply put:

The front kick, you see it mostly in Karate and Taekwon-Do, you raise your knee and snap your foot upwards. You hit with the ball of the foot. (think uppercut)

The teep is mostly use in Muay Thai. You raise your knee, but you use your hips to extend your foot forward. You hit with the ball of the foot. (think straight)

For the push kick, the contact is made while the leg is still chambered. You push your opponent while you straightened your leg. Most of the sole of the foot is in contact.

Of course, when you fight those lines tent to blur and you may mix voluntarily or not those 3 techniques.

 

[roventu]

Front kick, Teep, and push kick are 3 different things...
Simply put:

The front kick, you see it mostly in Karate and Taekwon-Do, you raise your knee and snap your foot upwards. You hit with the ball of the foot. (think uppercut)

The teep is mostly use in Muay Thai. You raise your knee, but you use your hips to extend your foot forward. You hit with the ball of the foot. (think straight)

For the push kick, the contact is made while the leg is still chambered. You push your opponent while you straightened your leg. Most of the sole of the foot is in contact.

Of course, when you fight those lines tent to blur and you may mix voluntarily or not those 3 techniques.

thanks for distinguishing between them all. i didnt really know the distinction, you'll hear mike goldberg use the teep term for all three kicks lol

 

[AndyMaBobs]

Necroing and already necro'd thread... but I find it really funny to look at that first page, and how the perspective on front kicks has changed in MMA today.

 

[Paradigm]

Necroing and already necro'd thread... but I find it really funny to look at that first page, and how the perspective on front kicks has changed in MMA today.

People still generally suck at teeps in 2017 MMA though.

A good front kick might actually be easier to pull off than a teep.

 

[AndyMaBobs]

People still generally suck at teeps in 2017 MMA though.

A good front kick might actually be easier to pull off than a teep.

110%

I'm still waiting for someone good at teeps to come along.

 

[GordoBarraBJJ]

Liddell did use one, and it was very effective. but i think he will only have used it because Horn had said previously that he had no interest in taking the fight to the ground

10yrs between these two posts. Unreal.

because he has been doing them all his life.The guy is so quiet and humble,but he can do anything in the ring, a few years ago

 

[j123]

110%

I'm still waiting for someone good at teeps to come along.

Thinly veiled @ARIZE callout post

 

[ARIZE]

What? What? Why did you call me? Is someone talking shit about Muay Thai? Or is AndyMaBobs asking about punches again?

In UFC, the one that comes in my mind, that has a good teep, and use it often, was Jojo Calderwood. I don't remember anyone in the male categories that use it as much as her, and with a good technique. I have the impression you find more of them in the female class. Joanne Jedrzejczyk also use them, and some other girls with a "MT" background.
For more teeps in MMA, you should probably watch ONE FC

 

[freaky]

Because MMA is not Muay Thai. MMA borrowed certain techniques from Muay Thai. You still see it. The most recent one was from Holm vs Bethe right before she got KTFO. Holm set up that question mark kick with a teep. In fact, the first time I heard of a teep was in the UFC. Fucking Mike Goldberg calls every push kick a teep. Quite annoying because technically only the rear leg should be called a teep. The front leg push kick is something else.

Anyways, we see it a lot. You don't see kicks in MMA in general. But it's there and people do throw them. Not as often as punches though.

What? What? Why did you call me? Is someone talking shit about Muay Thai? Or is AndyMaBobs asking about punches again?

In UFC, the one that comes in my mind, that has a good teep, and use it often, was Jojo Calderwood. I don't remember anyone in the male categories that use it as much as her, and with a good technique. I have the impression you find more of them in the female class. Joanne Jedrzejczyk also use them, and some other girls with a "MT" background.
For more teeps in MMA, you should probably watch ONE FC

Ubereem vs Nelson was a great show of Muay Thai techniques. Overeem was using a lot of teeps and jabs to keep Nelson on the outside.

EDIT: Whoa did not realized this was an old ass thread. I guess guys 10 years ago didn't throw teeps. Good to know..

 

[mikiemike87]

I think something like the "thai side kick" used by Muay Thai great Samart would have a great place in mma. You see a lot of guys from Jackson's utilize these long chambered side that work really well when there is a striking skill gap. Jones/Waterson/Holms comes to mind, but when Holms ran up against kickboxing based fighters, her lead sidekick fell flat. I think the minimal chambered thai side kick would be a great complement to MMA guys who like to box, and adds an extra centerline threat that isn't currently being used in mma at the moment.

Video for reference

 

[Kickzilla]

The biggest deterrence to any one move not being used well is people not drilling it for the right situations and applying that in sparring. Most don't teep right kickboxers included, so the fundamentals of how to teep aren't there to begin with (not engaging both sides of the hip, flicking the leg up with poor mobility in the hips, shitty balance on the support leg, over tensing and telegraphing, and a general lack of awareness of when to throw it and how it should feel against a resisting opponent). It doesn't have to be thrown hard, it should be a relaxed subtle movement that isn't obsessed about power but focuses on the hips pushing forward like a pop.

A good teep is about timing, throwing it when the opponent is attacking (right before the aggression starts, during the aggression, and even after it ends), mixing it into combos (a simple but great combo to learn and build from is jab, teep, body kick for instance), and sneaking it in which exploits your opponent's rhythm. If you think of the teep like a stabbing weapon you're trying to sneak in your accuracy and impact with it will go up. And you'll realize you have a sense of timing that you just never end up exploiting.

 

[CFGroup]

Don't know if this is a "proper" teep but the side push kick in TKD was used for the same purpose....

One of my favorite MMA techniques ever for it's perfect timing and effect!

 

[j123]

What? What? Why did you call me? Is someone talking shit about Muay Thai? Or is AndyMaBobs asking about punches again?

In UFC, the one that comes in my mind, that has a good teep, and use it often, was Jojo Calderwood. I don't remember anyone in the male categories that use it as much as her, and with a good technique. I have the impression you find more of them in the female class. Joanne Jedrzejczyk also use them, and some other girls with a "MT" background.
For more teeps in MMA, you should probably watch ONE FC

Everyone is talking smack about MT in f11 these days, boxing is the hot shit now

 

[Uchi Mata]

Everyone is talking smack about MT in f11 these days, boxing is the hot shit now

Wait until Gokhan Saki gets a few HL reel KOs and it'll be kickboxing again.

 

[AndyMaBobs]

Wait until Gokhan Saki gets a few HL reel KOs and it'll be kickboxing again.

The irony is that he'll probably get the KOs with his punches, if he gets them

 

[Uchi Mata]

The irony is that he'll probably get the KOs with his punches, if he gets them

Yeah, probably. He's lucky he's going into the LHW division, with the exception of Pat Cummins, Jones, and Cormier it's mostly bereft of top control wrestlers these days (since Bader and Davis weren't resigned). So there are quite a few matchups they can give him in the top 15 where vastly inferior kickboxers will probably just stand with him. I expect he'll be booked a lot like Holly Holm was orginally booked: lots of 'good striking for MMA' type opponents who aren't much of a threat to take him down and can't hang with him on the feet, probably hoping to book him in a fight with Jones or Cormier (whoever is champion) about 4 fights in. If I had to guess his first three opponents (assuming he wins all the fights) I'd guess Villante, Lil Nog, and maybe Manuwa depending on what happens with his title hopes. Then a title shot, then he retires from MMA after getting wrestled to death by either Jones or Cormier.

 

[Azam]

Yeah, probably. He's lucky he's going into the LHW division, with the exception of Pat Cummins, Jones, and Cormier it's mostly bereft of top control wrestlers these days (since Bader and Davis weren't resigned). So there are quite a few matchups they can give him in the top 15 where vastly inferior kickboxers will probably just stand with him. I expect he'll be booked a lot like Holly Holm was orginally booked: lots of 'good striking for MMA' type opponents who aren't much of a threat to take him down and can't hang with him on the feet, probably hoping to book him in a fight with Jones or Cormier (whoever is champion) about 4 fights in. If I had to guess his first three opponents (assuming he wins all the fights) I'd guess Villante, Lil Nog, and maybe Manuwa depending on what happens with his title hopes. Then a title shot, then he retires from MMA after getting wrestled to death by either Jones or Cormier.

I think I might be the only one sceptical about Saki's chances as far as striking goes in MMA.

He's definitely miles above everyone in that division in terms of pure striking ability and experience. But I think the smaller gloves, the range difference, the threat of grappling and even the calibre of athleticism in the UFC will be issues that he will have to adapt to and overcome. Whether he is able to from the get go - I'm not sure. But I think it has to be said that just because he's a great kick boxer that doesn't necessarily mean that it will translate as successfully over to mma for the reasons above. I mean look at Overeem & Hunt - arguably the most experienced kick boxers in the ufc - both of whom have been in situations where opponents with less striking experience got the better of them in the striking department.

At the moment I feel like the light heavyweight division is the least stacked - I mean compare the light heavyweight division to the middleweight or welterweight division - which are stacked with killers. In comparison the light heavyweight division I feel is the weakest it's ever been - so it is an opportune time for Saki. I wouldn't be surprised if that factored into his decision.

I think though it will depend on how well he picks up the MMA game, a lot of kick boxers (outside of the women's division) haven't done so well - the track record is good against lower tier fighters but that's as far as most kick boxers who've crossed have got. I can only think of Mark Hunt but he's been at the MMA game for a long long time.

It also depends on whether the UFC will hand pick fighters and try to nurture his career - but the track record for that isn't great unless you're like Conor and you can sell seats (then you can choose your fights lol). I feel like they may throw him a fighter he can be competitive with or beat but then toss him in against someone who he won't be ready for.

Saki in the UFC will definitely be entertaining though - just for the spectacle it is.

 

[Uchi Mata]

I think I might be the only one sceptical about Saki's chances as far as striking goes in MMA.

He's definitely miles above everyone in that division in terms of pure striking ability and experience. But I think the smaller gloves, the range difference, the threat of grappling and even the calibre of athleticism in the UFC will be issues that he will have to adapt to and overcome. Whether he is able to from the get go - I'm not sure. But I think it has to be said that just because he's a great kick boxer that doesn't necessarily mean that it will translate as successfully over to mma for the reasons above. I mean look at Overeem & Hunt - arguably the most experienced kick boxers in the ufc - both of whom have been in situations where opponents with less striking experience got the better of them in the striking department.

At the moment I feel like the light heavyweight division is the least stacked - I mean compare the light heavyweight division to the middleweight or welterweight division - which are stacked with killers. In comparison the light heavyweight division I feel is the weakest it's ever been - so it is an opportune time for Saki. I wouldn't be surprised if that factored into his decision.

I think though it will depend on how well he picks up the MMA game, a lot of kick boxers (outside of the women's division) haven't done so well - the track record is good against lower tier fighters but that's as far as most kick boxers who've crossed have got. I can only think of Mark Hunt but he's been at the MMA game for a long long time.

It also depends on whether the UFC will hand pick fighters and try to nurture his career - but the track record for that isn't great unless you're like Conor and you can sell seats (then you can choose your fights lol). I feel like they may throw him a fighter he can be competitive with or beat but then toss him in against someone who he won't be ready for.

Saki in the UFC will definitely be entertaining though - just for the spectacle it is.

Almost everything depends on who they match him with. Also how seriously he takes all this. Is it just a money grab and he's not serious about becoming a respectable all around MMA fighter? Then he'll lose badly the first time they put him in with anyone with a modicum of wrestling ability. If he takes it seriously then in a few years (though he's not young, so that plays in as well) he might be a legit top 5 guy given that as you correctly point out the division is very weak.

As for whether he'll transition well, I tend to like his chances better than someone like Raymond Daniels or even some KBers who are better than him on paper, like Petrosyan for example. Reason being, his boxing heavy attack doesn't leave him terribly open to takedowns, and the fact that he likes to come forward will make it a little easier for him to stay off the fence which is definitely a place where good strikers get caught up. I don't know that the glove size will matter all that much; in any case, I'm really excited to see him fight. He'll be the highest level striker to come into MMA since probably CroCop or Hunt.

 

[Superhet]

1) Injuring your foot on an elbow spike or your toes getting caught (this became the #1 reason for me the hard way)
2) Guys with good movement are much harder to get a clean hit on with the ball of the foot than the shin or even heel
3) If your kick gets caught in thaiboxing, you can "lose your balance" and lay down on the ground and let the ref save you. Yeah it looks bad, but you don't physically suffer from it as much. If it gets caught in mma, you get ground and pounded
4) Both push and snap kicks are unreliable. Push kicks don't do the damage you want and are easier to catch, snap kicks injure you more easily and are harder to land

If you watch when teeps are used successfully in the ufc, you should notice the tendency of the target to not really register them as they are being thrown. Case in point, that junior vs rothwell gif above: rothwell didn't guard his body in the first place and didn't even begin to move his feet a little or adjust his guard for spiking or catching, so of course it worked.

Imo teeps are only semi-reliable as a counter attack, and one you want to set up. You don't want to throw one out when your opponent was merely feinting because doing so will put you on one leg which a good opponent can pick up on to land a couple of shots and/or take an angle.

 

[Paradigm]

Because MMA is not Muay Thai. MMA borrowed certain techniques from Muay Thai. You still see it. The most recent one was from Holm vs Bethe right before she got KTFO. Holm set up that question mark kick with a teep. In fact, the first time I heard of a teep was in the UFC. Fucking Mike Goldberg calls every push kick a teep. Quite annoying because technically only the rear leg should be called a teep. The front leg push kick is something else.

Anyways, we see it a lot. You don't see kicks in MMA in general. But it's there and people do throw them. Not as often as punches though.



Ubereem vs Nelson was a great show of Muay Thai techniques. Overeem was using a lot of teeps and jabs to keep Nelson on the outside.

EDIT: Whoa did not realized this was an old ass thread. I guess guys 10 years ago didn't throw teeps. Good to know..

Where did you get that info? My instructors have been Thais and I've never heard that.

Stole this off wikipedia so take it for what it is but there's no reference to front or rear leg:

Foot-thrust (Teep)
The foot-thrust or literally "foot jab" is one of the techniques in muay Thai. It is mainly used as a defensive technique to control distance or block attacks. Foot-thrusts should be thrown quickly but with enough force to knock an opponent off balance.

English Thai Romanization IPA
Straight Foot-Thrust ถีบตรง Thip trong [tʰìːp troŋ]
Sideways Foot-Thrust ถีบข้าง Thip khang [tʰìːp kʰâːŋ]
Reverse Foot-Thrust ถีบกลับหลัง Thip klap lang [tʰìːp klàp lǎŋ]
Slapping Foot-Thrust ถีบตบ Thip top [tʰìːp tòp]
Jumping Foot-Thrust กระโดดถีบ Kradot thip [kradòːt tʰìːp]

1) Injuring your foot on an elbow spike or your toes getting caught (this became the #1 reason for me the hard way)
2) Guys with good movement are much harder to get a clean hit on with the ball of the foot than the shin or even heel
3) If your kick gets caught in thaiboxing, you can "lose your balance" and lay down on the ground and let the ref save you. Yeah it looks bad, but you don't physically suffer from it as much. If it gets caught in mma, you get ground and pounded
4) Both push and snap kicks are unreliable. Push kicks don't do the damage you want and are easier to catch, snap kicks injure you more easily and are harder to land

Conversely, the guys you are throwing teeps against (hypothetically) in MMA have shitty teep defense so it should theoretically be easier to land on them (MMA guys) versus someone in your own art (MT).