Why is this still happening in 2019, UFC?

[TheRassler]

'Murica fuck yea

 

[Rex Kwon Do]

He wanted to defend against overeem in Croatia

I could rewatch, but I'm pretty certain that in the biggest moment of his sporting life, when he was in Brazil screaming all kinds of stuff in the cam after KOing Werdum, he only gave shout outs to Cleveland and not Croatia. And watching all his Embedded episodes or whatever, he's pretty much just embraced the Midwestern firefighter guy identity. I haven't noticed any Croatia stuff.

 

[Diogenes of Sinope]

Why the fuck do you care?

because its a lie

 

[Natesblackshirt]

Good point I’m fucking PISSED. Unbelievable.

 

[Threetrees]

I could rewatch, but I'm pretty certain that in the biggest moment of his sporting life, when he was in Brazil screaming all kinds of stuff in the cam after KOing Werdum, he only gave shout outs to Cleveland and not Croatia. And watching all his Embedded episodes or whatever, he's pretty much just embraced the Midwestern firefighter guy identity. I haven't noticed any Croatia stuff.

I’m not making the claim that he was putting some Croatian identity first. I just said I remember him saying it would be cool to defend the belt in Croatia. He does interviews with Croatian media, he has the flag tattooed on his body, he posted shit loads on his ig about how proud he was to be Croatian during the World Cup.

If, as he got older and more mature as an athlete, he decided to embrace his national identity as an American as it relates to competition, especially against foreigners that would be normal. It’s also likely that the reverse of the OPs claim is true, that he and his management team decided that marketing himself as an American was personally a stronger decision than repping an international flag. But it’s not like he just stopped talking about Croatian pride.

 

[TheRassler]

because its a lie

anyone remember when they tried to make Tito Ortiz mexican and speak spanish?

now, that was a lie.

 

[Madmick]

Seriously? That's no where near as embarrassing as a guy whose only fight in 3 years is a 1st rnd loss being ranked number 8.

The headlines would suggest the favorite challenger to the HW title, currently, is a man who hasn't won a fight since 2010, and has popped for drugs at least twice (probably more, I can't keep track).

Yeah, that's embarrassing, but if I was going to discuss the organization's greatest embarrassment's, I wouldn't lead with that ranking.

Surely you understand why your provided link is not a parallel case.

It doesn't need to be to be relevant to the point. I also think you're too casually dismissing the marketing angle from the UFC's point of view.

Has anyone catalogued the history of flags changing for fighters over the course of their UFC career, and also the number of flags that deviated from the fighter's objective nationality? That would be a very interesting addition to the thread.

It’s marketing. Unlike in boxing, You only get so many chances to make a Mexican national hero in MMA. It can be very lucrative if it pans out. More so than if Cain went the American Rassler route and didn’t have the ridiculous tattoo. Turns out their best bet was an American...and Mexican nationals at large don’t care about Jimboys like Cain. If it makes a huge difference to anybody it’s them. Waving a flag isn’t really enough. To some Americans it’s just a slap in the face, others don’t care, others encourage the identity of being the worlds lobby

Exactly.

 

[Madmick]

OSP is American but they show a Hatian flag. Pretty sure the fighters chose the flags, and probably change it up to hit back at heritage since most fighters have the US flag anyways, not to mention it's great marketing.

Does anyone else suspect the UFC is sweetening fight purses for them to do this so that the sport will broaden its appeal? Have any of the past threads that looked into this uncovered any chatter from fighters talking about the issue?

 

[Rex Kwon Do]

I’m not making the claim that he was putting some Croatian identity first. I just said I remember him saying it would be cool to defend the belt in Croatia. He does interviews with Croatian media, he has the flag tattooed on his body, he posted shit loads on his ig about how proud he was to be Croatian during the World Cup.

If, as he got older and more mature as an athlete, he decided to embrace his national identity as an American as it relates to competition, especially against foreigners that would be normal. It’s also likely that the reverse of the OPs claim is true, that he and his management team decided that marketing himself as an American was personally a stronger decision than repping an international flag. But it’s not like he just stopped talking about Croatian pride.

 

[Threetrees]

The headlines would suggest the favorite challenger to the HW title, currently, is a man who hasn't won a fight since 2010, and has popped for drugs at least twice (probably more, I can't keep track).

Yeah, that's embarrassing, but if I was going to discuss the organization's greatest embarrassment's, I wouldn't lead with that ranking.

It doesn't need to be to be relevant to the point. I also think you're too casually dismissing the marketing angle from the UFC's point of view.

Has anyone catalogued the history of flags changing for fighters over the course of their UFC career, and also the number of flags that deviated from the fighter's objective nationality? That would be a very interesting addition to the thread.

It’s not relevant though. Because the rule in the case doesn’t apply here. Your guess as to why the rule in the link was applied does, I think your guess is wrong. But the citation is irrelevant, it adds nothing to the discussion.

The flag discussion is only more interesting and pertinent because of the rules that relate to flags since the Reebok deal. But that doesn’t seem to be the point you’re trying to make.

 

[Threetrees]

 

[Yagadot]

I read a while ago that Cain’s tattoo was from a nickname gained from his wrestling days. He would take a shit in someone’s locker and when it was found by one of his wrasslin bros he would run in shouting ‘Brown Pride!’ right in their faces.

With an attitude like that I’m surprised he didn’t change his flag after every fight just to show disrespect to the whole damn planet.

 

[snackgod]

I'm confused by the flag shown for Contender #8.

They used to do this with so many fighters to artificially make the UFC seem much larger and more international than it was. It was always stupid, but now it's quite unnecessary. The organization, and the sport at large, is now quite international.

For example, if you go back to his earliest UFC when they would flash rankings screens like this, or for the Tale of the Tape, they would show the Croatian flag for Stipe Miocic. Stipe was born, raised, and trains in Ohio. Notice how they fixed that.

This is so disrespectful. I can't believe Cain allows it. Does he not value his citizenship?

maybe i dont get why your offended. cain has brown pride tatted on his chest so what the problem

 

[Jimmy jump]

Who the fuck would be proud to be American? <45>

 

[Darbo]

I'm confused by the flag shown for Contender #8.

They used to do this with so many fighters to artificially make the UFC seem much larger and more international than it was. It was always stupid, but now it's quite unnecessary. The organization, and the sport at large, is now quite international.

For example, if you go back to his earliest UFC when they would flash rankings screens like this, or for the Tale of the Tape, they would show the Croatian flag for Stipe Miocic. Stipe was born, raised, and trains in Ohio. Notice how they fixed that.

This is so disrespectful. I can't believe Cain allows it. Does he not value his citizenship?

Fixed it for you son, something a little more appropriate.

 

[Final Say]

Not that it contradicts enduring grievance pertaining to Cain, but I'm not convinced the "fighter picks the flag" explains the oddly disproportionate number of American fighters in the past who have been attached to other flags, many who now are shown as American, in an organization that used to be steeply American in its infancy, yet sought to broaden its appeal to the international market. I don't doubt that guys like Cain and Dodson actively picked other flags rather than merely assenting to it, but if the flag was just something the fighters were allowed to choose to express their identity, as if the were wearing clothes, then old stories like this one make little sense:
Dariush not allowed to use the Assyrian People flag

They care about the politics as it affects business, and I'm not convinced Stipe just changed his flag on a whim. I recall this flaring up in 2015, but this was last night's event, so it's timely, and relevant.



My "agenda" is explicitly stated. I'm criticizing Cain and the UFC. I considered putting it in the WR, but this pertains to the UFC, and really isn't a matter of importance to American or International politics. Either way it isn't appropriate for posters such as yourselves to issue imperatives to a moderator how to moderate.

Do other pro leagues do this, and have I not being paying attention? AFAIK Cain isn't a dual citizen. It's bizarre to me that any pro league would allow players to haphazardly choose their nationality. To me, nationality is an inert fact. If you are a dual citizen then it would make sense for an athlete to choose one flag, or even both.

'It isn't appropriate' lmao

You have no pride, Cain does

Simple as that

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

I like to think that if I were in the UFC, I would adopt a fake Russian accent, grow a huge beard and walk to the cage holding a bottle of Stoli and a Russian flag. After all, my great grandparents did live there until the age of 9 or 10.

Russian accent ftw.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

View attachment 570341
Fixed it for you son, something a little more appropriate.

Now we got a thread.

 

[Madmick]

It’s not relevant though. Because the rule in the case doesn’t apply here. Your guess as to why the rule in the link was applied does, I think your guess is wrong. But the citation is irrelevant, it adds nothing to the discussion.

The flag discussion is only more interesting and pertinent because of the rules that relate to flags since the Reebok deal. But that doesn’t seem to be the point you’re trying to make.

Are you really this provincial with your application of reason? You're trying to shake a rule book at me. This isn't a courtroom.

If the UFC didn't care how fighters identified themselves, with regard to how international law recognizes and treats that person according to his objective nationality, for example, then why would they care if the fighter chose to represent a nation that isn't internationally recognized as a state? How many states must recognize one for it to qualify? Would Palestine qualify?

Clearly, they care in those cases because if they allowed fighters to choose the flag, irrespective of objective international law, then flags like this one might create some drama when setting up a card in Russia:

Thus, I'm suggesting that, while I agree with most this is relatively trivial, it reflects a marketing strategy that cheapens the organization, and calls into question why they list flags or nationalities for the fighters at all.

 

[Threetrees]

Are you really this provincial with your application of reason? You're trying to shake a rule book at me. This isn't a courtroom.

If the UFC didn't care how fighters identified themselves, with regard to how international law recognizes and treats that person according to his objective nationality, for example, then why would they care if the fighter chose to represent a nation that isn't internationally recognized as a state? How many states must recognize one for it to qualify? Would Palestine qualify?

Clearly, they care in those cases because if they allowed fighters to choose the flag, irrespective of objective international law, then flags like this one might create some drama when setting up a card in Russia:

Thus, I'm suggesting that, while I agree with most this is relatively trivial, it reflects a marketing strategy that cheapens the organization, and calls into question why they list flags or nationalities for the fighters at all.

If you’re just making the broad claim that the UFC cares about fighters nationality for marketing and political reasons at times, then you’re making a claim so broad that it does not merit discussion.

However you made this post in your OP
"This is so disrespectful. I can't believe Cain allows it. Does he not value his citizenship?"

To which I respond that in general, the fighter picks the flag.
Cain can both value being an American born fighter, and choose to represent a flag that shows off a secondary national identity - even if it’s mot, to use your term his objective identity. He’s not the only fighter who has done so, and I suspect he won’t be the last to do so going forward.

If you think the UFC is picking the flag for him, post something interesting and relevant that suggests this.

This smells to me like a thinly vieled troll thread. Which isn’t, mind you, an attempt to - again to use a favorite phrase of yours "moderate the forum out of place", just a statement of opinion.

Or it’s a very stupid and uninteresting thread.