Why is kickboxing more accepted then Muay Thai rules?

[Harukaze]

Thags my bad on the no refs, whe I did the search one of the returns said that. So which is Yodasenklai using in the popular "no gloves" Thai Fights video? Just wraps or something else?

Lots of misinformation on the internet out there haha.
Yodsaenklai is wearing cotton hand guards under rope as it is a "Thai Fight" even as opposed to a border or Burmese fight.

http://www.karatemart.com/images/products/main/thick-cloth-hand-guard.jpg

Is that want you mean by "cotton" knuckle guards?

So what, is it taped up hands and these just ever the tape instead of a glove?

Yeah, that with rope over it for Thai Fight.

Border and Burmese fights, just wraps.

 

[Ridian]

Lots of misinformation on the internet out there haha.
Yodsaenklai is wearing cotton hand guards under rope as it is a "Thai Fight" even as opposed to a border or Burmese fight.


Yeah, that with rope over it for Thai Fight.

Border and Burmese fights, just wraps.

Man that just sounds painful. The rope is supposed to cut right? Brutal!

 

[Julius_Caesar]

What annoys me is some of the talent you get out of Thailand. Not just as MuayThai fighters but as athletes overall! The discipline and punishment they have to go through fighting every 2-5 weeks is incredible. Compared to the average MMA or boxer who might fight 3/4 times a year if that.

The way fighters in the western world cancel a fight because they have a cold or don't feel 100% for example. A lot of Thai fighters I had the privilege to train beside getting ready for there fights don't have that luxury. Most of the time they are never 100%. Its either there wrist, shin or whatever. They have to soldier it out and fight on. Plus the Thai oil does wonders...

Give me the money, connections & right team of trainers and I could develop some Thai fighters that would dominate Glory, the sport of MMA and etc. It annoys me that some of these warriors are not recognized enough around the world and partly Thailand is to blame. They like to keep things there way which I respect like banning MMA in Thailand lol but it wont help with climbing up the ladder which I feel some of these fighters deserve. Also MT was much more exciting back in the day but I think gamblers and some camp owners have ruined the sport a little.

Look at it this way and this is a little history lesson lol when Buakaw jumped onto the K1 scene in 2004 he dominated so badly that they completely changed the rules (mainly for masato). They used to allow clinching or some clinching but over the years they got very strict with it and now its one of the main things a ref will respond to. Hell even boxers seem to get more time in the clinch then K1 fighters nowa days and that should tell you something. Just watch some of Buakaws older K1 fights.

I was fascinated with some of the athletic talent when I visited Kiatmoo9 last year. They are true warriors and train hard! Training doesn't seem like a task for them unlike some of the camps I saw in Bangkok which had much more distractions. They are tough as nails and there balance! lol there balance is on a different level. I had Singdams right leg over my shoulder holding it trying to sweep, throw and even push the leg up further so he would drop backwards but the motherf#cker wouldn't go down! I got so frustrated its not even funny! I have been around a lot of athletes before but nothing quite as incredible as those Kiatmoo9 boys. Its like something out of a movie:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0JmMI1n-L8 (not my vid)

 

[VicariousVice]

no not entirely true

I just saw a fight in thailand the mt topic that was stopped due to a cut, that much is true

but in western countries a cut can also be stopped if it's not drupping into the eyes.......if a cut is really big and can't be stopped from bleeding some doctors will stop it (some won't)

I agree with that......if a cut drips in the eyes it's a no brainer because a fighter needs to be able to see to defend himself

but if the cut does not drip blood in the eyes but is still a huge cut.......I find it justifiable to protect the fighter

Brock is that the Thai King in your avatar?

Is that supposed to be some sort've slight against them?

 

[Koimpact]

It's when the referee determines that the position is stalled. No striking, no trips happening. If it looks stalled, the ref will break it up immediately. If it looks guys are striking (knees/bows) or advancing position for a trip or toss the ref will let that happen until it stops happening.

I think elbows are the main reason it goes on so much longer than KB. In MT, the clinch has that extra opportunity to do some work in clinch range.

I'm not an expert, though and I'm not reading out of some rulebook. My ideas are just based on watching fights. If I'm wrong, let me know.

Thanks! Yeah I was just wondering if long periods of clinching might be what turns people off from it more so than kickboxing.

 

[AhuraMazda]

Why is everyone bringing up Thailand Muay Thai?

TS is talking about a more westernized version, and everyone is replying with typical reasons why people don't like to watch a fight in THAILAND. You don't have to have the music, Wai Kru etc... for it to be Muay Thai.

Take out the music, Wai Kru, scoring, bring in good fighters and a Muay Thai show on Spike would pull the same ratings as Glory.

This. Lol

All i said was bring in Muay rules. Never said to bring in all the negative aspects as well. Negative in terms of western audience.

Its just disappointing to watch guys that are clearly the better strikers in terms of using all their weapons lose to kickboxers. I mean Muay thai is the most effective striking art. So when i watch a kickboxing bout i dont feel like im watching the best strikers.

I watch MMA to watch the best fighters.
I watch boxing to watch the best punchers.
I watch muay thai to watch the best strikers.

 

[Paradigm]

Are kickboxing bouts more fun to watch? I think the american audience would pay more attention when more weapons are involved. Who doesnt love a bloody match due to elbows?

Glory should get rid of that crappy unified rules and bring in Muay Thai but leave out the annoying music. Have viacom push it to the mass. Advertise everywhere and all the casual mma fans that dislike grappling will like it. Plus the boxing fans that are looking for something a little different will like it too.

And if the commission will allow it, dont use gloves but rather the mma glove/hand wraps that are seen used here...

[YT]OJGBjn-wTj4[/YT]

I mean those muay boran type hand wraps will be a selling point on its own. Its just simply bad ass.

Kickboxing is just not catching on in north america. Changes needs to be made. Kickboxing/muay thai needs a ufc style monopoly to succeed. One org to rule it all. All the best fighters in one org.

wow...i came in to post how they should use the Kard Chuek wraps to promote the sport and you already included it in your OP...good shit.

Thanks for giving me the name of that guy. I had the honor of having a one on one hour with Jongsunan Fairtex in San Fran a few years ago.

Yod is really fun to watch. He's really got it all going on. That poor farang in there looked like he'd trained his ass off and was pretty good but just got blown apart.

Awesome fight.

I don't care to see what we Americans would do to MT over here. I like it in Thailand, where I think it belongs. I'm not against having it here but I think we'd really screw it up and I don't think there's a very big market for it, unfortunately. In a way I'm kind of glad, too. Nothing fucks something up like going mainstream.

the name of what guy? Yodsanklai???

 

[Harukaze]

Man that just sounds painful. The rope is supposed to cut right? Brutal!

Depends on the material of rope used. I'm not sure if Thai Fight uses the traditional hemp or if they just use cotton, although I have the feeling it's some sort of softer material as there are a lot fewer cuts than would be expected with stiff hemp ropes.

 

[AviatorShades]

I would love Muay Thai with smaller gloves/wraps.

The big boxing gloves thing is increasingly criticized even in boxing because evidence is mounting up that they increase brain damage by allowing fighters to take repeated blunt trauma instead of going down from one painful punch.

Plus those wraps look way cooler.

 

[Ridian]

Would some kind of elbow pad that doesn't slide down the arm allow the use of elbows but stop cuts? I know that takes away the slicing power of the elbow but it would still allow the impact of an elbow to be used and maybe stop fight ending cuts.

 

[Brocktirement**]

Why is everyone bringing up Thailand Muay Thai?

TS is talking about a more westernized version, and everyone is replying with typical reasons why people don't like to watch a fight in THAILAND. You don't have to have the music, Wai Kru etc... for it to be Muay Thai.

Take out the music, Wai Kru, scoring, bring in good fighters and a Muay Thai show on Spike would pull the same ratings as Glory.

well the biggest promotion outside of thailand I can think of is probably yokkao?

and they do have the wai kru and the thai music......so the comparison isn't all that weird

 

[Brocktirement**]

What annoys me is some of the talent you get out of Thailand. Not just as MuayThai fighters but as athletes overall! The discipline and punishment they have to go through fighting every 2-5 weeks is incredible. Compared to the average MMA or boxer who might fight 3/4 times a year if that.

The way fighters in the western world cancel a fight because they have a cold or don't feel 100% for example. A lot of Thai fighters I had the privilege to train beside getting ready for there fights don't have that luxury. Most of the time they are never 100%. Its either there wrist, shin or whatever. They have to soldier it out and fight on. Plus the Thai oil does wonders...

Give me the money, connections & right team of trainers and I could develop some Thai fighters that would dominate Glory, the sport of MMA and etc. It annoys me that some of these warriors are not recognized enough around the world and partly Thailand is to blame. They like to keep things there way which I respect like banning MMA in Thailand lol but it wont help with climbing up the ladder which I feel some of these fighters deserve. Also MT was much more exciting back in the day but I think gamblers and some camp owners have ruined the sport a little.

Look at it this way and this is a little history lesson lol when Buakaw jumped onto the K1 scene in 2004 he dominated so badly that they completely changed the rules (mainly for masato). They used to allow clinching or some clinching but over the years they got very strict with it and now its one of the main things a ref will respond to. Hell even boxers seem to get more time in the clinch then K1 fighters nowa days and that should tell you something. Just watch some of Buakaws older K1 fights.

I was fascinated with some of the athletic talent when I visited Kiatmoo9 last year. They are true warriors and train hard! Training doesn't seem like a task for them unlike some of the camps I saw in Bangkok which had much more distractions. They are tough as nails and there balance! lol there balance is on a different level. I had Singdams right leg over my shoulder holding it trying to sweep, throw and even push the leg up further so he would drop backwards but the motherf#cker wouldn't go down! I got so frustrated its not even funny! I have been around a lot of athletes before but nothing quite as incredible as those Kiatmoo9 boys. Its like something out of a movie:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0JmMI1n-L8 (not my vid)

you're far too optimistic here........Glory's lowest weight class is 145.......all the other weight classes it would be pretty had for thai to dominate....even light weight because petro and ristie are no walk overs

above that I don't see thai dominate period......they don't have the physique for it

and mma? are you serious? that's an entire different sport and nobody would trade with mma guys.....they'd get taken down and beaten, just like alot of other strikers

never mind the fact that thai fighters often stand right up and with their legs a bit next to each other.....thety'd have to adapt more than striking arts with a more boxing kinda of stance

no way in hell I see muay thai fighters dominate in mma.......well at least not in the ufc where there are no soccer kicks

 

[Julius_Caesar]

you're far too optimistic here........Glory's lowest weight class is 145.......all the other weight classes it would be pretty had for thai to dominate....even light weight because petro and ristie are no walk overs

above that I don't see thai dominate period......they don't have the physique for it

and mma? are you serious? that's an entire different sport and nobody would trade with mma guys.....they'd get taken down and beaten, just like alot of other strikers

never mind the fact that thai fighters often stand right up and with their legs a bit next to each other.....thety'd have to adapt more than striking arts with a more boxing kinda of stance

no way in hell I see muay thai fighters dominate in mma.......well at least not in the ufc where there are no soccer kicks

There are quite a few bigger Thai's nowa days. Obviously it would be rare to find a Thai to fight at heavyweight but I could find some 145, 155 and even 170 using some of those giant Thai's that seem to be coming out of nowhere.

I love petrosyan, Petrosyan for me has a MT style. I don't care if people say he is a kick-boxer. To me he has a southpaw style that's common among the MT world but with some added features.

He has that typical style where he has his left leg back right leg forward. Uses his left leg only for the roundhouse kick, uses his right leg for the teep to keep fighters at a distance whilst driving in the knee. I am certain he got that from a MT fighter. And his movement is relaxed, controlled and rhythmic like many Thai's.

Fighters like Yodsanklai, Sam-a, petpanomrung, jomthong, sitthichai and many others all have the same style with there kicks the only difference is Petroysan has developed his hands really well and his movement around the ring is catered better for the usual hop around aggressive wasting unnecessary energy type European kickboxing style.

I think if the right Thai fighters are trained up the right way for glory they could cause a problem. All it takes is the right team, training, diet and most importantly a willingness from the fighter himself.

I also think Thai's are not as easy to take down as you think. Especially if you took 6 months out of there career before they have there first mma fight to learn about take-down defense and the ground game. I think the MT clinch can be used well. And no not the MMA fighters watered down equivalent to the MT clinch. I mean proper clinching.

When a Thai fighter gets ready for a fight he will spend an hour clinching 3/4 guys taking turns not giving him a breather now imagine if you could incorporate take downs into that clinch session. Its exactly the same but you teach the fighters various shoots and take-downs so they can take turns mixing clinching & take-downs on the fighter with the up and coming fight.

Once you are pushed to exhaustion after not having a breather for 30 minutes plus you start to get sluggish and move on instinct. And that's why there are so good at clinching. Do that for an hour twice a day and I am sure most of the time fighters will have a problem taking them down.

The Thai's athletic ability is due to there diet and there lack of strength & conditioning which over time can be developed but I think one of the most important things in combat sports is balance. Which Thai fighters and wrestlers are known for. But I guess it will never happen. Thai's don't seem to be interested in MMA.

 

[Brocktirement**]

There are quite a few bigger Thai's nowa days. Obviously it would be rare to find a Thai to fight at heavyweight but I could find some 145, 155 and even 170 using some of those giant Thai's that seem to be coming out of nowhere.

I love petrosyan, Petrosyan for me has a MT style. I don't care if people say he is a kick-boxer. To me he has a southpaw style that's common among the MT world but with some added features.

He has that typical style where he has his left leg back right leg forward. Uses his left leg only for the roundhouse kick, uses his right leg for the teep to keep fighters at a distance whilst driving in the knee. I am certain he got that from a MT fighter. And his movement is relaxed, controlled and rhythmic like many Thai's.

Fighters like Yodsanklai, Sam-a, petpanomrung, jomthong, sitthichai and many others all have the same style with there kicks the only difference is Petroysan has developed his hands really well and his movement around the ring is catered better for the usual hop around aggressive wasting unnecessary energy type European kickboxing style.

I think if the right Thai fighters are trained up the right way for glory they could cause a problem. All it takes is the right team, training, diet and most importantly a willingness from the fighter himself.

I also think Thai's are not as easy to take down as you think. Especially if you took 6 months out of there career before they have there first mma fight to learn about take-down defense and the ground game. I think the MT clinch can be used well. And no not the MMA fighters watered down equivalent to the MT clinch. I mean proper clinching.

When a Thai fighter gets ready for a fight he will spend an hour clinching 3/4 guys taking turns not giving him a breather now imagine if you could incorporate take downs into that clinch session. Its exactly the same but you teach the fighters various shoots and take-downs so they can take turns mixing clinching & take-downs on the fighter with the up and coming fight.

Once you are pushed to exhaustion after not having a breather for 30 minutes plus you start to get sluggish and move on instinct. And that's why there are so good at clinching. Do that for an hour twice a day and I am sure most of the time fighters will have a problem taking them down.

The Thai's athletic ability is due to there diet and there lack of strength & conditioning which over time can be developed but I think one of the most important things in combat sports is balance. Which Thai fighters and wrestlers are known for. But I guess it will never happen. Thai's don't seem to be interested in MMA.

well you have a shitload of assumptions......thai are good at clinching and working hard at it, so if they do that with takedowns they'll get that too?

grappling is very differernt from striking and taking '6 months' to train takedown defense isn't going to make a muay thai fighter that trained all his life (from a kids age) in striking into a good grappler (never mind great)

where are all the thai that can do good in mma? there are enough lower weights and even women now can fight in mma.

I haven't seen any muay thai fighter at the top of mma

it's only normal to have an x amount of time to train something and dabbling in the grppling part will take time away from the striking......the mt fighters are specialists and not allround fighters

you make it sound that if you have money that thai will DOMINATE in mma??? I don't even see it happening in glory

what are these big thai you are talking about? one of the biggest and most succesfull I know is yodaenklai and he got beat in kb a couple of times too

no doubt there can be thai mt fighters with succes in mma........but to think they will dominate is a far stretch......the grappling arts still dominate in mma to a certain extent.....'a certain extent' being that the great grapplers have rounded out their game and can strike now as well

 

[TonyK]

Many Thai fighters would have to adapt to not standing so square and fighting without any head movement and combination striking, Rambaa is the most successful Thai in MMA currently, and his style is very different from someone like Betboonchu or even the less clinch oriented guys. Malaipet came into MMA with his slow starting, kicking oriented, no head movement style and looked like crap most of the time. Good adaptation of MT to MMA would look like Thiago Alves, Anthony Njokuani, Shahbulat Shamhalaev and Thomas Almeida.

Looking down on MMA is trendy and everything, especially by boxing and MT diehards, but truly high level, talented MMA fighters are no joke. It's easy to shit on kickboxers for struggling in MMA, but so far they are the only ones who tried.

 

[Brocktirement**]

Looking down on MMA is trendy and everything, especially by boxing and MT diehards, but truly high level, talented MMA fighters are no joke.

this

a guy like jose aldo is a great (mma) striker and has awesome takedown defense to go with it......probably the best in his division...not to mention he is a true bjj blackbelt.....they way he pinned faber to the ground and just battered his face.....

I can't see him losing to any thai fighter.....he might not be as good in standup striking as a high level mt specialist.....but he's very good.....good enough to not get mauled standing and if he does not like it standing he can bring the fight anywhere.......

that type of allround fighting will beat any specialist style

 

[TonyK]

this

a guy like jose aldo is a great (mma) striker and has awesome takedown defense to go with it......probably the best in his division...not to mention he is a true bjj blackbelt.....they way he pinned faber to the ground and just battered his face.....

I can't see him losing to any thai fighter.....he might not be as good in standup striking as a high level mt specialist.....but he's very good.....good enough to not get mauled standing and if he does not like it standing he can bring the fight anywhere.......

that type of allround fighting will beat any specialist style

I would say he isn't as good in kicking, clinching and elbowing, but I'd say he has better boxing than at least 60% of the Thais.

 

[Brocktirement**]

I would say he isn't as good in kicking, clinching and elbowing, but I'd say he has better boxing than at least 60% of the Thais.

well some mt fighters are great at boxing, depends on who you pick

but jose's boxing is very good indeed....very functional

 

[Brocktirement**]

rambaa looks good against lower tier fighters.....he's 39 and can't do much anymore if you ask me......past that age it's kinda hard to improve alot

I see on his record he lost to darren uyenoyama.....uyenoyama fought his very first mma fight.......and uyenoyama is nothing in the ufc......lost his last two

 

[Cocakillbana]

Many Thai fighters would have to adapt to not standing so square and fighting without any head movement and combination striking, Rambaa is the most successful Thai in MMA currently, and his style is very different from someone like Betboonchu or even the less clinch oriented guys. Malaipet came into MMA with his slow starting, kicking oriented, no head movement style and looked like crap most of the time. Good adaptation of MT to MMA would look like Thiago Alves, Anthony Njokuani, Shahbulat Shamhalaev and Thomas Almeida.

Looking down on MMA is trendy and everything, especially by boxing and MT diehards, but truly high level, talented MMA fighters are no joke. It's easy to shit on kickboxers for struggling in MMA, but so far they are the only ones who tried.

Malaipet was washed up, as is Rambaa.

It's been said a million times on here, but they fight square with little head movement because that's how you win in Muay Thai. Sure there are examples of other kinds of styles having success, but 9/10 times a long and successful career is done using that traditional style.

Many of these little head movement Thai fighters have transitioned to boxing with success and became world champions. They adapt to the rules and what would work best. Hell, by the end of the year there could be 3 world champion boxers who were former Lumpini champions.

I've used Panomrunglek as an example a lot. Classic style when fighting Muay Thai, but is also active in boxing and arguably deserved a decision over Koki Kameda last year.