Why is child birth 100% a woman's choice?

[Grenz]

both opt out of their duties as a parent after the pregnancy happens

youre assuming that the fetus is not already a life, it can be argued that you arent preventing a life from happening, but murdering it

I'm assuming that it's the woman's choice to do with her body what she wants. Virtually every civilized society on this planet reflects this opinion in their legal code, and most of the uncivilized ones do not.

And even if we carry on with the murder theme, murder isn't the same as absolving yourself from the responsibilities of fatherhood, because you wanted to murder the child, but the woman didn't. Again, the two things aren't equivalent.

 

[Greoric]

Amazing how all these statists and hyper-statists (excuse me sheep) have come charging in here to proclaim women have a right to choose what she does with her own body, but that doesn't apply to men and it only applies to women with regard to her right to kill a fetus.

 

[Grenz]

Amazing how all these statists and hyper-statists (excuse me sheep) have come charging in here to proclaim women have a right to choose what she does with her own body, but that doesn't apply to men and it only applies to women with regard to her right to kill a fetus.

Yes, the evil statists are here advocating for individualism, responsibility and personal liberty. Isn't there another group who's supposed to be doing that?

 

[Greoric]

Yes, the evil statists are here advocating for individualism, responsibility and personal liberty. Isn't there another group who's supposed to be doing that?

If you're a statist then that's certainly NOT what you're advocating, or those attributes are indeed what you believe in, but you're just an automaton regurgitating talking points.

 

[Grenz]

If you're a statist then that's certainly NOT what you're advocating, or those attributes are indeed what you believe in, but you're just an automaton regurgitating talking points.

Is this the part where you set up a strawman so you can avoid actually discussing the topic at hand?

 

[Greoric]

Is this the part where you set up a strawman so you can avoid actually discussing the topic at hand?

There's no strawman there. You don't actually believe in a right to choose. You just believe in a right to kill fetuses.

 

[Grenz]

There's no strawman there. You don't actually believe in a right to choose. You just believe in a right to kill fetuses.

I do believe in choice , as it pertains to the topic, everyone should be able to do with their body as they please. Is there something you find objectionable with this stance?

 

[Greoric]

I do believe in choice , as it pertains to the topic, everyone should be able to do with their body as they please. Is there something you find objectionable with this stance?

I don't find that stance objectionable at all, but you don't actually hold that view. Care to take that challenge?

 

[Satanical Eve]

I'm Pro Choice 100%. I believe if a woman chooses to have a baby that the man should have to pay child support and at least have the decency to be in the childs life

 

[Grenz]

I don't find that stance objectionable at all, but you don't actually hold that view. Care to take that challenge?

What's the challenge? Exactly what are you trying to disprove?

 

[Greoric]

I'm Pro Choice 100%. I believe if a woman chooses to have a baby that the man should have to pay child support and at least have the decency to be in the childs life

Then why does a woman have a choice, but a man does not?

BTW, the same challenge goes out to you as it does for Grenz.... you don't actually beleive in a freedom of choice. You just believe in the freedom to kill fetuses. If you actually believed in a freedom of choice your position would be more respectable... but it isn't.

 

[Greoric]

What's the challenge? Exactly what are you trying to disprove?

Great challenge accepted. (I hope you prove me wrong).

Level I: Someone smokes crack cocaine out in public. Does he have a right to do that?

 

[Grenz]

Great challenge accepted. (I hope you prove me wrong).

Level I: Someone smokes crack cocaine out in public. Does he have a right to do that?

You still haven't defined the challenge and I haven't accepted it. Clearly outline what position you think I hold (i.e the position you're attacking), and we can go from there.

 

[Greoric]

You still haven't defined the challenge and I haven't accepted it. Clearly outline what position you think I hold, and we can go from there.

Well I won't outline your position. I'll let you do that:

I do believe in choice , as it pertains to the topic, everyone should be able to do with their body as they please.

Anything you'd like to backpedal from on this post?

The challenge is you don't actually hold this view. You just believe in a woman's right to kill a fetus. You don't really care anything about a person's (anyone's) choices.

 

[Grenz]

Well I won't outline your position. I'll let you do that:

Anything you'd like to backpedal from on this post?

The strawman here is that you're assuming I'm holding the belief that every human should be able to do with their body as they please as paramount to all other freedoms. As it pertains to your 'Level 1' challenge: Yes, you should be allowed to smoke crack, no, you shouldn't be able to do it on a park bench next to an elementary school at 2PM. Do I need to explain the second part of that statement, or should we move on to level 2?

 

[PrinceOfPain]

I think men need to develop tech to remove women completely from the whole birthing process. As it turns out, they're pretty unreliable, selfish, and a little bit bloodthirsty.

 

[Greoric]

The strawman here is that you're assuming I'm holding the belief that every human should be able to do with their body as they please as paramount to all other freedoms. As it pertains to your 'Level 1' challenge: Yes, you should be allowed to smoke crack, no, you shouldn't be able to do it on a park bench next to an elementary school at 2PM. Do I need to explain the second part of that statement, or should we move on to level 2?

No we can stay at level I for now! So someone's right to choose is limited to their negative influence on someone else, yes? Why would a woman have a right to do something with her body if it meant killing another person?

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

What do you think your Dad or Grandfather would say if you explained to them you want to serve some papers to get out of paying for your child?
Now strengthening fathers rights to get custody I am all for it.
But not be willing to pay for your child is a pussy move.

Because you are the man. If you do the crime you do the time.

This illustrates the sexist double standard at play, although I am not aiming this comment directly at you. It isn't manly to choose to not be responsible for your child; but neither is it womanly (in any good sense) to choose to abort the child.

Given the celebrated "right" of a woman to choose to terminate her child's life before a certain point in the pregnancy, of course men should also have the right to sever their legal rights and responsibilities toward the child prior to that same point. As the situation now stands, men have reproductive responsibilities, but few reproductive rights.

Isn't feminism about men and women being equal?

 

[Thurisaz]

Because you are the man. If you do the crime you do the time.

Indeed, and the woman should do the same, for the same reasons. "A crime" doesn't go away by committing a worse one. It kills not only the baby but a part of the mother's soul as well.

 

[Grenz]

No we can stay at level I for now! So someone's right to choose is limited to their negative influence on someone else, yes? Why would a woman have a right to do something with her body if it meant killing another person?

It doesn't mean that though. Go ahead and argue that point, I don't really see why that's useful, seeing how every civilized society on this planet has conceded this point by now.