Why do you smoke?

[SwiftMcvay]

MYTH: MARIJUANA IS HIGHLY ADDICTIVE. Long term marijuana users experience physical dependence and withdrawal, and often need professional drug treatment to break their marijuana habits.

FACT: Most people who smoke marijuana smoke it only occasionally. A small minority of Americans - less than 1 percent - smoke marijuana on a daily basis. An even smaller minority develop a dependence on marijuana. Some people who smoke marijuana heavily and frequently stop without difficulty. Others seek help from drug treatment professionals. Marijuana does not cause physical dependence. If people experience withdrawal symptoms at all, they are remarkably mild.



MYTH: MARIJUANA KILLS BRAIN CELLS. Used over time, marijuana permanently alters brain structure and function, causing memory loss, cognitive impairment, personality deterioration, and reduced productivity.

FACT: None of the medical tests currently used to detect brain damage in humans have found harm from marijuana, even from long term high-dose use. An early study reported brain damage in rhesus monkeys after six months exposure to high concentrations of marijuana smoke. In a recent, more carefully conducted study, researchers found no evidence of brain abnormality in monkeys that were forced to inhale the equivalent of four to five marijuana cigarettes every day for a year. The claim that marijuana kills brain cells is based on a speculative report dating back a quarter of a century that has never been supported by any scientific study.

These are quotes that are copy and pasted from a website. people that are pro marijuana have "facts" to back up their words. People that are against marijuana have "facts" that back up their words about marijuana. So until a real, accurate study is ever produced we won't actually know the effects. So all of you who dig around the internet for anti-marijuana information, I can do the same and in less than five minutes just like you can and find things that support my opinion.

To Sanshou Fighter: What the fuck gives you the right to talk about people not getting college degrees because they smoke marijuana? I am enrolled at community college until next semester so i can get the basics out of the way, and I am off to Texas tech, and i work between 30-40 hours a week, train BJJ/kickboxing/MMA, and i am well on my way to getting AT LEAST a business masters degree. Marijuana does not make you dumb, and you can easily get a degree, just like somebody who doesn't smoke, since I know many people who are enrolled at colleges (Texas Tech, UT, TCU, Texas A&M,) who smoke marijuana, some every day. One of them that I know who has used coke, smoke weed, taken acid, and others (not that I'm condoning the other drugs) is at UT majoring in bio-chemistry and has made nothing lower than a B, and if you know anything about the university of Texas, especially a bio-chemistry major, it is a hard fucking school. So come preach to me about college degrees in 6-8 years when I am making 100+ thousand a year with your biased opinion, which in my opinion is absolutely fucking worthless.

 

[Sinister]

MYTH: MARIJUANA KILLS BRAIN CELLS. Used over time, marijuana permanently alters brain structure and function, causing memory loss, cognitive impairment, personality deterioration, and reduced productivity.

FACT: None of the medical tests currently used to detect brain damage in humans have found harm from marijuana, even from long term high-dose use. An early study reported brain damage in rhesus monkeys after six months exposure to high concentrations of marijuana smoke. In a recent, more carefully conducted study, researchers found no evidence of brain abnormality in monkeys that were forced to inhale the equivalent of four to five marijuana cigarettes every day for a year. The claim that marijuana kills brain cells is based on a speculative report dating back a quarter of a century that has never been supported by any scientific study.

These are quotes that are copy and pasted from a website. people that are pro marijuana have "facts" to back up their words. People that are against marijuana have "facts" that back up their words about marijuana. So until a real, accurate study is ever produced we won't actually know the effects. So all of you who dig around the internet for anti-marijuana information, I can do the same and in less than five minutes just like you can and find things that support my opinion.

Being that all of this is probably directed at me considering I'm the one who quoted something on Marijuana, I'll say this.

My point was not the truth or falseness of the information, it was the very existence of this information despite it's nature. And that for all the good Marijuana is supposed to do for a person's calm, look how many people get so uppity when you question their behavior surrounding the issue. Resorting to blatant dorrogatory name-calling. That's the underlying notion most people are getting at, that many marijuana supporters get so heated over it and seem to very much need a bowl to calm down about the whole thing. lol

That last part was a joke bye the way.

 

[SwiftMcvay]

Being that all of this is probably directed at me considering I'm the one who quoted something on Marijuana, I'll say this.

My point was not the truth or falseness of the information, it was the very existence of this information despite it's nature. And that for all the good Marijuana is supposed to do for a person's calm, look how many people get so uppity when you question their behavior surrounding the issue. Resorting to blatant dorrogatory name-calling. That's the underlying notion most people are getting at, that many marijuana supporters get so heated over it and seem to very much need a bowl to calm down about the whole thing. lol

That last part was a joke bye the way.

that last post wasn't directed to you, it was directed to everybody that gets "facts" off of the internet about the addictive and brain-cell killing that marijuana does. Every book/doctor/website has different opinions on the subjects, and I honestly don't think any of them (anti or pro-marijuana) are truly accurate. I personally don't think it is addictive, but I can't speak for everybody because everybody experiences different effects. It is pretty ironic that marijuana makes people calm and they are getting pissed about the comments made in this thread, but I guess a lot of them just don't want to hear people who have never tried it tell them what it does to their training (it's obviously not good, but some people think it is impossible to have good cardio if you smoke weed) or how addicted they are, because a lot of people think that they can accurately judge things like that about another person, without ever trying it. The only comment that irritated me was the one Sanshou fighter made about somebody not having a degree because they are a dumbass because they smoke, unless I interpreted the statement wrong.

 

[MTJJ_PuMpED]

amen brotha

 

[Sinister]

It is pretty ironic that marijuana makes people calm and they are getting pissed about the comments made in this thread, but I guess a lot of them just don't want to hear people who have never tried it tell them what it does to their training (it's obviously not good, but some people think it is impossible to have good cardio if you smoke weed) or how addicted they are, because a lot of people think that they can accurately judge things like that about another person, without ever trying it.

I can give you that much for at least being willing to acknowledge that it does seem quite silly. And of course, no one likes to be told by outsiders what they're doing within whatever it is their doing. That being said, I was always taught that a person who is willing to plant a flag and go to war, is 9 times out of 10 doing so out of insecurity. I'm trying to say this as non-judgmentally as possible, not sure if it's working out. But it's like how many people go to virtual war over something, be it actual physical battle or verbal argument because they ARE perfectly secure about what they're doing? The only instance I can think of where conflict is justifiable and there isn't much insecurity regarding the subject is when the two parties are assured of themselves and yet they are open to being proved wrong, and thus engage in conflict for the learning experience. I know that's why I ended up in most of the fights I've ever been in beyond the age of 16 or so. I wasn't trying to prove anything...I was relatively sure about my theories, I was more out to learn something. So when you argue like this over something, either you're certain and are open to learning from those opposing you...or you're not quite as certain as you think you are and need to billboard your ideas and back them up with obscenities and thus solidify your postion within yourself. The latter being the more hilarious of the two.

So with that, to all you guys who smoke weed habitually, the trick to convincing people that maybe your theories are sound is don't lose your fucking cool when someone is questioning you about it. Especially if they're an outsider and are using common knowledge, no matter how bullshit that knowledge is in your opinion, to oppose you. Think of it like this, why don't you act like that at your job? Why would you get fired if a customer asked you a stupid question and you asked them if they were a fucking idiot who only believed what they were told when they were 3 years-old? At the end of the day when your boss hears of your conduct (assuming your boss is a respectable professional) when you're the one out of the job and your little tantrum didn't stop the customer from getting their way, who is the idiot?

And at the end of the day most anti-weed people do get their way for the simple fact that it's illegal (assuming you're in America), and that regardless of how you debate it, very few of you are going to march on Washington about it and present a competent enough argument to change the whole Country's ideas. So as of right now the pro-marijuana people are in the minority, and regardless of how unjust they feel about it, it's just true. It's my opinion that when you're in the minority you can't afford to argue your points in ways that further alienate you from people who you're attempting to convince. Just think things through before you say them and this whole thing will be a lot easier.

Swift, I think you've done a good job of that, as have some others both in this thread and the other one. Makes me think perhaps it is true that not everyone who smokes weed is similar to that typical druggie (though an alarming amount of smokers still are), but it's definitely a better start.

 

[CANADIANFIGHTCLUB]

It has a medical perpose. big time though and sick people should be able to smoke without punishment

 

[SeanHolland]

i used to smoke weed, not anymore. I have never ever touched a cigarette in my life. Never have, never will, i hate cigs more than people hate deltafag, and hate the smellof smoke

 

[wooshman]

Smoking weed means I'm out of a job in the Army or any other military branch for that matter. It also means I have a much harder time trying to get a job in my field because the reason why I was booted out of the army will be reflected in my records. Also many civilian jobs in my field routinely test for marijuana and other illegal substances.

Whether people want to admit it or not, everyone knows that smoking weed/cigarettes will have a negative impact on stamina.

If you want to maximize potential, sacrifices must be made.

I tried weed it once and I realized that being high isn't all that great. And my mental judgment/clarity was also impaired. I like to be mentally sharp all the time.

After being a heavy drinker for three years straight I finally called it quits. I noticed a very noticeable increase in my overall fitness and health. Also I had more money in my pocket to spend on other things.

I'll agree that I don't believe weed is addicting as many people believe. Most people I know can/have quit weed without much problems. Cigarettes of course is a different beast altogether.

But I do know this, I have seen many friends and other people I knew go down the drain from excessive weed smoking. Some people are more negatively affected than others.

Since there are studies that contradict each other on the effects of weed it's hard to make an argument. But since there are more negatives than positives associated with smoking weed why even do it all? It's a personal decision that everyone must make on their own. I've tried it once and I'll never do it again.

 

[muerteverde]

This is the best post by a non-user, but if you'll listen to what I have to say, I'm pretty sure I can illuminate for you some of your own prejudices you have retained as well as some irrational outlooks (I can tell you're someone who does his best to make this decision by grounding it in REASON, and for us users, that is terribly refreshing). I understand I must unavoidably have some of my own prejudices and such, but this post isn't about me, it's about you.

1) Unhealthy.
No. The Kaiser study is the only large-scale, long-term study that was not only peer-reviewed but cross-indexed each subject's marijuana usage against other habits (you would be amazed to learn that nearly every study that concluded marijuana has negative effects on the respiratory system-and there aren't many- did not cross-index for cigarette usage That's unbelievably corrupt).
What was the only difference after 29 years between the group that used marijuana and the group that didn't? Those using marijuana were substantially less likely to have cancer. This property of marijuana has been suggested by other studies involving cannibanoids: believed to be the anti-cancer agent in marijuana. But the Kaiser study was a huge associative study- not a theoretical lab approach- that confirmed this.

I'm not saying I think it's good for your training. People who smoke five times a day, it's not difficult to notice they have a cough. I'm sure there are short-term conditions, like pneumonia and colds, that marijuana users are at a higher risk of contracting. Mainly, in my opinion, it adversely affects the immune system, but I have no evidence to support that assertion that isn't anecdotal. I wouldn't include it as part of my regime, but obviously there are pro athletes out there who do and still dominate. NBA Player after NBA player has rumored that anywhere from 1/3-2/3 of the league is using. You scoff? People scoffed when David Wells said 75% of the MLB was juicing ten years ago.

My point is there has never been a study that proved marijuana was even bad for your health. I think there are negative effects of marijuana that haven't yet been proven, but until they are, you can't say, "It's unhealthy" as if it were known. It isn't.

You'll learn that studies that issue negative results are (much more frequently than those that don't) engineered to realize those results. I remember I once saw a study that was funded by a Christian Group. Gimme a break, there's no conflict of interest there. More often that that, though, it's how they PRESENT the results to you. The classic example of what I'm talking about is the study that came out a couple years ago that reported (EGADS!) that marijuana contains four times as many carcinogens as cigarettes. That's true. There's over 400 in marijuana and something like 101 in cigarettes. What they DIDN'T tell you is that there are several key types of carcinogens in cigarettes that are far more lethal and, most importantly, in much greater quantity. Think of it this way: you give me a 1mL vial of 4 different wasp killers, and I give you a 1/2 gallon jug of just one kind of rat poison. Who's going to die?

Furthermore, the stress on one's respiratory system can be reduced/negated with the use of a vaporizer. Vaportech makes the best one. They've won at Cannabis Cup (the product cup) several times. That's the best route for athletes, IMO, besides total abstinence.

Alcohol: 1-2 glasses of either red wine or unfiltered microbrewed ale with your dinner has been proven to have a positive effect on the cardiovascular system. Once again, I think volume is essential to consider. Obviously, unlike marijuana, alcohol has been proven to be unhealthy with heavy usage, but that doesn't mean it hasn't been proven to be healthy with moderate use. If you aren't drinking a glass of red wine with your dinner, you should start. The only difficulty is accounting for the empty calories.

Tobacco: cigarettes are the worst thing in the world for you. The absolute worst. You're right on this one. But pure tobacco actually isn't that bad.

2) Addictive.
Absolutely not. "Dependency" is an empty word invented by the hardline-right to maintain a negative stigma of the drug because they know they can't truthfully call it addictive. Only two major federally subsidized studies have been done on marijuana, one during Nixon's presidency (confiscated tapes reveal he basically told the scientists on the project to come back with a negative report, or not come back at all) and one during Clinton's presidency. Both concluded that marijuana cannot be termed (according to the medical definition) either physically or psychologically addictive. Furthmore, the study done during Clinton's reign also investigated the claim/fear that marijuana is a "gateway" drug, and concluded decisively that it is not.

Marijuana definitely gets expensive, though, bro, you're doing yourself a favor there. But I'm kind of pissed about that. Why is it expensive in the first place? You've stumbled into another reason it's so pointless that marijuana is illegal.


8) If you've never done it, how do you know people take it "to escape?" Some describe it that way, but most of my friends don't. Besides, it seems to be your opinion of drugs in general. You have to understand this is humorour to someone like me who has done a lot of drugs: to hear non-users make assumptions as to why we do it. I find weed to be numbing, but it doesn't actually make my problems go away, so I don't see how I could escape anywhere with it.

But have you ever tried LSD? What people don't understand is with most drugs you HAVE TO BE A MENTAL WARRIOR. People who are mentally weak freak, I've seen it time and time again. LSD is an odyssey inward: into your fears, into your ability to deal with the fact you don't control your own consciousness. It's not a pill you pop on a Friday night to make the time pass. You have to gear up for an LSD trip. You have to mentally prepare for it the way you would a fight. If you're not ready, you will break, and someone will have to babysit/restrain you. And it's funny, because it's so easy to see beforehand who has the solipsistic stamina to endure the watershed of heaven and hell the drug will throw at you. But if you think it's weakness that drives someone to do a hardcore hallucinogen, you have really no understanding of the subject of your criticism.

Also, your comments on suicide are insensitive. I appreciate your candor, but you obviously don't understand the nature of a serious suicidal struggle.

You bring to light some info I did not know relating to dependence as a myth. I am not sure what to believe now, as I have seen some evidence in people I know to suggest that it is habbit forming and life controlling, and people all my life have told me that it is. I makes sense to me that it would be. You could say I have a dependence on lifting, running, judo, and writing. I enjoy doing them, gets a sense of pleasure and self worth from doing them and I do them regularly. When I do not do them, from injury or whatever reason, I feel the loss. Marijuana could be this way if nothing more, as you derive yoru feelings of pleasure fromt he drug and become dependent on that as your source of happiness as opposed to writing or surfing sherdog (I should ahve listed that as a dependency). This is my understanding of dependency, more or less. So I will keep an open mind on that one.

The unhealthyness might also need to be re-evaluated, but only to the degree that smoking marijuana is unhealthy. Notice I said smoking. Vaporizing is another matter and night not be all that bad. Smoking anything is bad though.

Expensive, yes it is. Ilegal, yes it is. These right here are enough reasons for me to now use. I want to have a job in the future, for which I will be drug tested. I have already had jobs before where guys have gotten fired for using weed. Regardless of whether it shoudl eb legal or not, it is currently illegal and this is a huge factor in the decision making process here. I don't want to go to prison for something that doesn't really matter to me.

Your number 8 is from two sources, 1 being the responses of people to this very thread. That is what I was referring to, people saying they do it to escape. The second being that this is a very common use for drugs, and that again I ahve seen in people I know that smoke weed or drink. It is certainly not the only reason, but it is a major reason.

The part you mention about the alcohol is right on, and it is why I was careful to specify alcohol abuse or overcomsumption. Alcohol in the right amounts is healthy (but not for everyone obviously, pregnant womenand small children might want to avoid it). Maybe I will drink a small amount when I get much older because their is heart trouble in my family history, but there is also alcoholism in my family and I do not want that. Also, I worked in a restaurant before and though I ahve never tasted wine or beer, I do not like the smell at all. So though I may try some wine in the future for its health benefits, I will stay away for now. That will be a decivision I will ahve to make in the distant future.

^Also, your comments on suicide are insensitive. I appreciate your candor, but you obviously don't understand the nature of a serious suicidal struggle.^

I am sorry if you thought I was incensitive. I assure you I am not. Maybe I say it like I do to convince myself (say it enough times and you believe it) and I have actually considered suicide serveal times. Attempting it only went so far as holding the knife unsheathed while thinking about it. It is a choice that is made. An decision and an exit. I had a friend in high school who tried to kill herself after her father died. My own father came very close to killing himself when he was int he army (pulling the pin on a grenade and holding the lever as hundreds of the enemy advanced on him, along on the battlefield).

You started your post by saying you will apeal to my rationality. With some things I try to be as rational as possible, but with certain things, there is a ton of irationality and irational fears clouding any posibilty of rational thought. This is most definitly one of them for me. Religion and sex being the two others (religion largely affecting the outlook on sex). I make no claims to complete rationality, though if you look hard enough in my posts, you might (if you are lucky) find some rational thoughts.

 

[muerteverde]

You sir, make me laugh my ass off.. seriously ppl like you know nothing. I smoked pot for a bit, then the next day i decided I didnt want to anymore. And that was it. I NEVER get the temptation to do it either. I can be around ppl smoking and just say naw thanks. I dont like get on my knees and start beging them to let me have a puff.

Plus the other day I even asked the doctor if it kills a lot of brain cells, and he said yes, but not many more than drinking would do. PLus he said that the brain creates new cells. so whats the big deal.

The only thing wrong with pot is what it does to your lungs. Thats the only reason I didnt want to do it anymore. Even if it is like 5 ciggarettes it doesnt matter. Cuz ppl who smoke pot may smoke like a j or two. But ppl who smoke ciggarettes end up smoking like a pack a day anyway.

I am glad I put some humour into your life, but I do know some things. I am glad that you were able to quit. I have known some people who could not and it ruined their lives. Studies have shown that some people's personalities are more prone to form habits than others are you know, maybe you just do not form habits as well. I do.

About killing brain cells. I don't drink either. I don't want anything that will kill my brain cells. I need those cells (maybe you don't). And it has not been proven that brain cells regenerate, especially in this case. There have been recent studies that hint at a maybe yes, but it is not like they just grow back for you. It sounds like to me you are grasping at any good news you can get to justify your behavior or that of others.

What it does to your lungs is not the only bad thing about pot. How about the societal stigma? The jailtime you will do if you get buste? The wasted money? The wasted time? The missed employment opportunities (places that drugtest)? Just to name a few. Yeah, sure some of what I list as reasons are personal and not entirely rational, but there is some stuff that applies to others in what I have said. It is not laughable at all to avoid marijuana and cigarette use.

 

[Madmick]

Poor Madmick, your brain is so full of garbage that you can't even get a college degree. You need to chill on that shit, you dumb ass.

I hold a bachelor's from New York University.

So guess what? You're still the fucking idiot. Only now you're an OWNED fucking idiot.

 

[Madmick]

I just want people to be able to do what they want if it doesn't negatively affect other people. It's the libertarian in me. So if you don't want to smoke, or hold a negative opinion of marijuana, I don't mind at all...as long as I am not barred from doing it. Because I've seen people- had friends even- who are the kind of people Kabuki is talking about, but even them, I've never had a friend who stole to support his weed habit or even put himself in debt (I've seen it financially strain friends...I've just never seen anyone run up a credit card a couple grand for weed the way I've seen them do it for big screen tv's).

So yeah, I think it's getting a little loud in here. Still, the guy cracking wise, this is a familiar face, and I fight fire with fire.

I strongly believe you don't have to try marijuana to formulate a strategy for a relationship with it. If it's not for you, it's not for you. Believe your own eyes, anyway.

Nevertheless, Kabuki, I think you're being mildly inconsistent when you say you don't need to try it to formulate an opinion of it (like it's addictive properties, or precipitated behavioral changes) when you have argued several times in the past that ultimately studies on supplements are irrelevant and that the only way to know if one works for you is to try it. I understand weed isn't a supplement used to improve your performance, and I went back in forth in my head, but if I understand your positions correctly I can't figure it to not be contradictory. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think you decide ultimately whether a supplement works based on how many other guys in the gym use it, praise it, and make gains with it. You're thinking, "I don't know what else is going on in his head, body, and life. I have to try it for myself to know." I don't understand why you're position isn't the same on marijuana.

It's because I think most of those people who escape, and these people aren't the majority (I want to reiterate that), they would have been that way without weed. What everyone sees is that weed becomes the preoccupation of their discontent, but what few realize is that discontent was their original preoccupation.

 

[Madmick]

Man, I read all the way back through this thread, and I see Kabuki's point.

Hey (fellow) potheads: Chill out.

 

[Sinister]

That and because I myself HAVE smoked weed, so it doesn't really apply to me. lol And I don't specifically argue on anyone's behalf save for my own. At times I'll back someone's point, but I don't remember specifically saying that the "don't knock it until you've tried it" mentality is completely bad, just that it's altogether a weak argument because it's A) assumptive and B) calls for people to retaliate with the like "Don't knock sobriety until you've tried it...and I mean REALLY tried it."

I don't care who smokes or doesn't either really. Weed smoking while something I don't condone or allow around me personally is one of the least of the drug evils in the world. But note I say one of the least. It still can be verifiably classed as one unfortunately if you look at the bigger picture of things, which no one likes to because it does get off the subject of weed alone. Maybe someday weed can indeed be thought of as no less dangerous than tobacco and perhaps only become strongly regulated as opposed to illegal. But you know what? I'm not naive enough to think that the HIGH percentage of potheads will be satisfied with that, the next debate will be wether it's TOO strongly regulated. These kinds of potheads are the ones that are a pain in the ass. The ones who when push coems to shove, just want everyone else to take responsbility for everything wrong with them, the ones who fit the behavior patterns of typical drug addicts. And from my experience, they actually are in the higher numbers than those who just do it recreationally.

 

[dutchmasterj3]

I would say smoking cigaretttes is the worst possible thing you could do to your body, next to heroin.
Even so, smoking anything inhibits you're training. I used to smoke weed everday, but I have severely
cut down in order to help my jiu jitsu out. After quitting I noticed an increase in my cardio and what not.
Although I could still do the jiu jitsu while smoking everday, it certainly doesn't help if you're looking to be serious about this. If you just do jiu jitsu to keep in shape and have fun, then smoke. If you want to compete and shit, then i'd quit.

 

[Madmick]

That and because I myself HAVE smoked weed, so it doesn't really apply to me. lol And I don't specifically argue on anyone's behalf save for my own. At times I'll back someone's point, but I don't remember specifically saying that the "don't knock it until you've tried it" mentality is completely bad, just that it's altogether a weak argument because it's A) assumptive and B) calls for people to retaliate with the like "Don't knock sobriety until you've tried it...and I mean REALLY tried it."

I don't care who smokes or doesn't either really. Weed smoking while something I don't condone or allow around me personally is one of the least of the drug evils in the world. But note I say one of the least. It still can be verifiably classed as one unfortunately if you look at the bigger picture of things, which no one likes to because it does get off the subject of weed alone. Maybe someday weed can indeed be thought of as no less dangerous than tobacco and perhaps only become strongly regulated as opposed to illegal. But you know what? I'm not naive enough to think that the HIGH percentage of potheads will be satisfied with that, the next debate will be wether it's TOO strongly regulated. These kinds of potheads are the ones that are a pain in the ass. The ones who when push coems to shove, just want everyone else to take responsbility for everything wrong with them, the ones who fit the behavior patterns of typical drug addicts. And from my experience, they actually are in the higher numbers than those who just do it recreationally.

Hear hear.

I especially like that argument in (B). I think it can be extrapolated to further my interest in many, many arguments to come...

 

[NaTyBrNbRaWLEr]

you know what all these smokers need and i mean smokers of any type a good fresh pinch copenhagen "fresh cope it satisfies since 1822"