Why do people say grappling is better for street fighting than boxing?

[Baconator69**]

because they have never been in a street fight

 

[entulado]

I agree to an extent. After 2 months of Silat training I was about to throw down, at age 43, with a contractor that was talking shit to me on the neighboring property. Then I realize its not worth I called the cops on the guy for trespassing and using my stuff without my permission problem solved. I am glad I did because now I question whether what I was taught would even work since it is never pressure tested.

it just makes you comfortable with the idea of a fight.
so if you are in a situation where a fight might happen you could end up provoking it since you are comfortable with the idea.
not only that, you are eager to proving all the cool skills you learned.
if you never raised a hand to anybody in your life the idea of fighting would simply never cross your mind.

 

[entulado]

i would also like to add that when you are secure or feel secure you don't have as many people who are willing to confront you, harass you or try to intimidate or instigate you. Alot of guys, even the ones who can fight, don't pick fights w/guys who seem like they are secure and handle themselves; they don't need or want that headache. So they won't initiate it.

on to the initial point, most guys want to fight to prove they are tough hard etc... etc; when you train you know what you can and can't do, and you know what you can/can't do against guys who KNOW HOW TO FIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!

Final point training also reminds you that people train, people can fight; so your not as eager or interested in a fight because you never know who or what your facing so it's nice to tread carefully.

I don't know who you are or where you live, but the last time someone tried to confront me I was probably like 10 years old (around 30 now).
so it's not something that happens often.

as for guys not picking a fight with fighters, that's just an illusion.
I've seen guys who like to fight and peaceful guys and they all look the same.
unless you are a pro fighter with c..flower ears and a nose broken 3 times people won't be able to tell whether you are a good fighter or not.

for the final point you are assuming that you want to fight in the first place.
you are talking about aggressive people who somehow control themselves by releasing anger in muay thai etc.
I'm talking about calm people who see themselves in a hostile situation.

 

[entulado]

I respectfully disagree. Fight training has enhanced my calm and allows me to walk away from tough words or loud guys pounding their chests. Because when you train tough talk doesnt move you. Of course that was your reaction 2-3 days into BJJ. It was you having a new toy and wanting to "try it out". I dont know how long youve been training now but when you are 2-3 years into bjj, which isnt a long time in bjj years, your reaction will be different to the same guy coming at you.

guys who are aggressive at trying for bar fights feel like they have something to prove to whoever. Its directly related to them wanting to fight so I dont separate them. but rational minds can differ..no biggie

I trained other martial arts before and that's my conclusion overall.
fight training does give you some confidence.
but many times confidence will do more harm than good.
when you have confidence, ego, high self image, whatever, you have something you need to defend.
when you feel like the worst piece of shit ever there's nothing to defend lol.

 

[entulado]

because they have never been in a street fight

yep.
fighting is what remains from our animal past/heritage.
and it is probably the complete opposite of philosophy which is as human as it gets.

 

[icarigo**]

I dont understand why people act like pro boxers would get beat up easy in a street fight, those guys are tough and hit hard and have iron chins. I dont know why people think grappling is superior because when you think about it in a street fight if a guy tried to pull guard or take me down im knocking him out. And even if a guy did get me down what can he really do im not gonna quit if i get armbarred or something so how can grappling be superior when in reality in a street fight you cant do much with it?

BTW i been hit by pro boxers and never even hurt so a grappler definitly would have no chance at someone like me in a street fight but in mma its different.

Because people are stupid.

In a streetfight, nothing will help you. You need to NOT get into streetfights, the next best thing is to win it and run like hell from the cops.

BJJ and boxing are sports, effective forms of fighting yes but complicated for a world with guns and knives. You think the cavemen figured out BJJ for their fighting needs? no, they stabbed each other.

going into the multiple opponents scenario and over submissions( most people are told to do bitch ass armbars over kimuras and guillotines.) and disadvantage of being in the ground is unnesessary and disrespectful to the ONLY effective art out there.

Grappling and Striking are fun, and that's it. It's there to fulfill some antisocial need you might have or play like a kid again.

the number of punches you take during training is NOT worth the one punch you might love tap some punk ass coward with and the following lawsuit.

 

[entulado]

Because people are stupid.

In a streetfight, nothing will help you. You need to NOT get into streetfights, the next best thing is to win it and run like hell from the cops.

BJJ and boxing are sports, effective forms of fighting yes but complicated for a world with guns and knives. You think the cavemen figured out BJJ for their fighting needs? no, they stabbed each other.

going into the multiple opponents scenario and over submissions( most people are told to do bitch ass armbars over kimuras and guillotines.) and disadvantage of being in the ground is unnesessary and disrespectful to the ONLY effective art out there.

Grappling and Striking are fun, and that's it. It's there to fulfill some antisocial need you might have or play like a kid again.

the number of punches you take during training is NOT worth the one punch you might love tap some punk ass coward with and the following lawsuit.

it's funny how you see people here saying "I want to learn real fighting because in the streets there are no rules. that's why I learn boxing and bjj".
if you are so f**ing worried about what might happen in the streets, why don't you walk around with 4 grenades, 2 huge knives in the waist, a machine gun hanging on your back.
that way everybody will "respect" you and you won't have to be afraid anymore.

 

[Fzubek]

lol real talk I try to stay away froms streetfights and have not been in one since highschool. I dont expect I ever will either.

Honestly, I was an amateur boxer in highschool and have trained my younger brother who is an amateur boxer ever since, and I spar on a fairly regular, however recreational basis.

I would try to keep any streetfight standing, as I dont believe anyone without training of some sort could outstrike me.. and if someone were to take me down or try to armbar me or some shit..


I WOULD BITE THEM AS HARD AS I COULD! lol lets see you greenbelt in bjj deal with me pulling your hair, punching, biting, and gouging your eyes!


Still though, I am not interested in streetfighting and would only consider it to protect myself or my date, people like me. I am also streetsmart enough to not get into stupid situations.

 

[RAMPAGE13]

if i was in a street fight with you and i had you in an armbar...

idgaf even if you did tap im still snapping your arm off.

because everytime they tap and you let them out, its not like a mma fight... fights over lets go home


they fly right at you again.

but watch ufc 1-3 its been proven that grappling is probably the most effective style of fighting

exactly, or you'll knock em the fuck out by choking em to unconsciousness

 

[devante]

I don't know who you are or where you live, but the last time someone tried to confront me I was probably like 10 years old (around 30 now).
so it's not something that happens often.

as for guys not picking a fight with fighters, that's just an illusion.
I've seen guys who like to fight and peaceful guys and they all look the same.
unless you are a pro fighter with c..flower ears and a nose broken 3 times people won't be able to tell whether you are a good fighter or not.

for the final point you are assuming that you want to fight in the first place.
you are talking about aggressive people who somehow control themselves by releasing anger in muay thai etc.
I'm talking about calm people who see themselves in a hostile situation.

i get your point; i am just going by what people have said to me, i.e. you don't look like a guy who trains at all, or you don't look like the type of guy who could fight. When people find out i train, much less spar (esp striking) they are in shock; they can't believe it. But i have bigger or maybe tougher looking friends who people don't mess w/because they think they can or will fight

confrontations don't happen often, not to me; but people are kinda crazy and i have seen or experienced people escalating things over ridiculously stupid reasons. So to say it can't or won't happen is nuts, not likely; but still possible. Ex- my brother had to fire a girl who worked at his company; two days later he walks out to his car and had her bf confront him and try to fight him, because his gf can't show up to work on time or do her job.

Me personally i don't want to fight anyone, i am the last person to get in fights; an the first person to try to break them up... But when i was scared to def myself, everyone f**cked w/me alot; when i refused to roll over, certain people felt the need to push to see how far i would go. But most just backed off.

sidenote-i used to live in houston (u of h) maryland; but i am from san antonio, and no matter where your at there are a**holes. Just be lucky you don't run into them. Good or bad neighborhoods, rich..middle class or poor people; some people just have that tendency to start sh*t, adults too.

 

[DonS**]

how can you say that though? the top 1% in the sport is the top 1%...sure there might be more high level boxers in comparison to high level BJJ guys based on absolute numbers alone but the bottom line is that Royce wasnt facing the top reps from the other genres.

What I'm saying is that the top 1% in a small sport like BJJ may be more comparable to the to 40% in a large sport like boxing. Comparing the top 1% doesn't make sense. It is like comparing large and small countries at the olympics, the larger population country has more potential players to call on.

therefore you cant really say that BJJ was more effective than boxing. what if Tyson was in there with him with no gloves on...could Royce even get him down before Mike landed a crushing blow or two? could Royce even take one full power shot from Tyson??? we'll never know but all im saying is that Art Jimmerson was nowhere near the pinnacle of what a boxer is.

The obvious domination by grapplers in UFC 1 through 10 (the ones I've watched) makes the answer of striker vs grappler crystal clear. It isn't just Royce. And people knew this before UFC, from earlier matches. Val Tulo, Pancrease, and no doubt in the old days of catch wrestling.

there could be more wrestlers in the US than boxers but the top boxers have the ability to make money in a pro career. wouldnt that throw your example right out the window?

No doubt HS wrestling in the US contains a huge amount of talent, although it tends to peak around age 18 when they leave HS . . .

I'm not sure how this throws out my example.

 

[DonS**]

Regardless of whether BJJ had a shallow talent pool compared to other sports, the fact remains, that the top BJJ fighters at the time competed. Note no top judoka, top karateka, top nak muay, top sanda fighters competed, like I already mentioned gerard gordeau was not the top karateka in the world, let alone europe, or even Holland for that matter despite what many people say.

My point is that with a shallow talent pool, the top people don't compare to the top people of a sport with a deep talent pool. At least not statistically. All else equal, a town with a population of 1000 people has someone that can probably run faster then anyone in a town with only 100 people.

I agree with you that every style had to compete in a wide range of rules, including BJJ, but something that has to be noted is the early ufc's were promoted as 'no rules - i.e. real fighting to see who's the best' -- the problem with that is that ground fighting & newaza is alot different when the floor is hard & not matted and imo it has an impact on how effective BJJ (because of the newaza focus) is because in reality the floor won't be matted & it gives strikers, wrestlers and judoka a natural edge. Probably would have been TKO's & KO's due to throws.

I know they changed the floor and reducted the matting after UFC 1.

I've seen and experienced judo throws on hard floors, haven't seen any resulting KOs. In any case, for the striker it cuts both ways, hard floor might make him more effective but he will also impact harder when thrown. But early UFC showed absolute domination by grapplers in any case.

 

[Paradigm]

So you have you wave it around all the time? So c0cky. :icon_chee

lol...no. i think it has to be on your belt and visibly seen...cant have your shirt untucked over it. could be wrong.

it just makes you comfortable with the idea of a fight.
so if you are in a situation where a fight might happen you could end up provoking it since you are comfortable with the idea.
not only that, you are eager to proving all the cool skills you learned.
if you never raised a hand to anybody in your life the idea of fighting would simply never cross your mind.

actually...you do have a point here. i read something about guys who trained knife fighting actually getting injured/killed more because they actually entertained the idea of a knife fight as a possibility versus someone who never did. if you dont train knife fighting, its not even an option most likely. however, it would probably be better to have the training but not the predisposition to want to use it.

basically, have the knife fighting knowledge but the disposition/mindset of someone who never trained it. then again, that could be bad as well as you might have the skills but lack the confidence in using them.

fuck, man...just dont get in knife fights!

What I'm saying is that the top 1% in a small sport like BJJ may be more comparable to the to 40% in a large sport like boxing. Comparing the top 1% doesn't make sense. It is like comparing large and small countries at the olympics, the larger population country has more potential players to call on.



The obvious domination by grapplers in UFC 1 through 10 (the ones I've watched) makes the answer of striker vs grappler crystal clear. It isn't just Royce. And people knew this before UFC, from earlier matches. Val Tulo, Pancrease, and no doubt in the old days of catch wrestling.



No doubt HS wrestling in the US contains a huge amount of talent, although it tends to peak around age 18 when they leave HS . . .

I'm not sure how this throws out my example.

who would you say the most credentialed striker in UFC 1-10 was? was this person anywhere near the pinnacle of their striking art?

you were saying something along that lines of that a journeyman boxer (like Jimmerman) would have been at the level to join that tournament because $50k or whatever would have been the right amount of money for someone of his level. my point was that an highly credentialed wrestler might not be even able to make 50k at all, thus the likelihood of having a top 1% wrestler compete there would be higher than a top 1% boxer, even though there could be more skilled wrestlers in the country than boxers.

Looking at it another way, a $50k prize isn't much to a top ranked boxer, and the level of boxer who is attracted to that purse is more likely in line with the level of the other participants.

you were saying that $50k would be much to a top 1% guy in boxing (a sport that has a bigger base than BJJ). my point was that a 1% guy in wrestling (a sport that has potentially bigger base than boxing) might not even be able to make $50k.

theres more money in striking sports than grappling...doesnt this skew the talent that would have joined the early UFCs towards grapplers, since the top level strikers are doing something else (boxing/kickboxing/etc)??? why do you think there are so many top grapplers in the UFC/MMA in the modern day compared to strikers? its the exact same reason as before!

there is still more money in striking arts like boxing/K-1 than in straight up BJJ/international wrestling. hence, the top grapplers are more likely to do MMA. i could be wrong but thats the way i see it...

 

[joleee]

I think it's really dangerous to take someone down in a street fight, cuz you never if has any friends around who want to soccer kick you in the face. And in a real 1 on1 in a dark alley it doesn't really matter because any fighting experience is better than none.

 

[Katriona1992]

Best for street fight: Gun-fu
Best for street fight without consequences: Run-fu

People who say "X is better than Y" are usually those who have minimal training and have never had a confrontation on the streets at night (at least not alone). To me, a good judoka is every bit as dangerous as a good kickboxer and, even as an amateur boxer myself, I wouldn't want to mess with either.

 

[Paradigm]

I've seen and experienced judo throws on hard floors, haven't seen any resulting KOs.

well, maybe you havent been KO'd or seen em but it doesnt mean its not possible. add a couple soccer kicks for flavor and youve got some good shit going.

 

[entulado]

lol...no. i think it has to be on your belt and visibly seen...cant have your shirt untucked over it. could be wrong.



actually...you do have a point here. i read something about guys who trained knife fighting actually getting injured/killed more because they actually entertained the idea of a knife fight as a possibility versus someone who never did. if you dont train knife fighting, its not even an option most likely. however, it would probably be better to have the training but not the predisposition to want to use it.

basically, have the knife fighting knowledge but the disposition/mindset of someone who never trained it. then again, that could be bad as well as you might have the skills but lack the confidence in using them.

fuck, man...just dont get in knife fights!



who would you say the most credentialed striker in UFC 1-10 was? was this person anywhere near the pinnacle of their striking art?

you were saying something along that lines of that a journeyman boxer (like Jimmerman) would have been at the level to join that tournament because $50k or whatever would have been the right amount of money for someone of his level. my point was that an highly credentialed wrestler might not be even able to make 50k at all, thus the likelihood of having a top 1% wrestler compete there would be higher than a top 1% boxer, even though there could be more skilled wrestlers in the country than boxers.



you were saying that $50k would be much to a top 1% guy in boxing (a sport that has a bigger base than BJJ). my point was that a 1% guy in wrestling (a sport that has potentially bigger base than boxing) might not even be able to make $50k.

theres more money in striking sports than grappling...doesnt this skew the talent that would have joined the early UFCs towards grapplers, since the top level strikers are doing something else (boxing/kickboxing/etc)??? why do you think there are so many top grapplers in the UFC/MMA in the modern day compared to strikers? its the exact same reason as before!

there is still more money in striking arts like boxing/K-1 than in straight up BJJ/international wrestling. hence, the top grapplers are more likely to do MMA. i could be wrong but thats the way i see it...

that's where the advantage becomes a danger.
say you are a good fighter and some punk starts talking trash to you in a bar, then he starts pushing you.
knowing that you are a good fighter you take crap from nobody so you end the threat.
what you didn't know is that the guy had knife on him and 5 friends hanging around in the bar.
so you end in the hospital fighting for your life.

now imagine that you are a mommas boy who never did any physical activity, of course never did any martial art or got in a fight.
when pushed and trashed talked you don't do nothing, so the guy eventually gets tired of you and leaves.

who got the worst out of that situation?

 

[ali2013champ]

that's where the advantage becomes a danger.
say you are a good fighter and some punk starts talking trash to you in a bar, then he starts pushing you.
knowing that you are a good fighter you take crap from nobody so you end the threat.
what you didn't know is that the guy had knife on him and 5 friends hanging around in the bar.
so you end in the hospital fighting for your life.

now imagine that you are a mommas boy who never did any physical activity, of course never did any martial art or got in a fight.
when pushed and trashed talked you don't do nothing, so the guy eventually gets tired of you and leaves.

who got the worst out of that situation?

If you are Fedor you are beating them all with armbar

 

[Paradigm]

If you are Fedor you are beating them all with armbar

I wish...to be that chubby and yet that effective...

 

[Crazy K]

Oh damn! Now I gotta take up judo