Why do people say grappling is better for street fighting than boxing?

[Paradigm]

You're assuming the guy has no grappling training. If a guy is trained in bjj, he knows how to control distance and close it and clinch up. At that point, you're done if you cannot grapple or aren't trained to stand up - as a pure striker most certainly is not.

wait...so guys that train Boxing or MT dont know how to control distance...only BJJ guys? you know there is a bit of clinch in Muay Thai also, right?

Trained kickboxing and Muay Thai. Headbutts, shoulder thrusts, elbows and stepping on the feet are all illegal under the Queensberry rules and therefore I wouldn't count them as part of boxing.


I was talking about boxing, not Muay Thai or Lethwei.

what??? so a wrestler double legging you onto your back/Judo guy hip tossing you onto concrete is legal now in those sports also? whats with all the rules talk...this is a street fight, no?

it basically depends on if the BJJ guy can close the distance without taking a KO shot to the face and clinch up if we're talking straight boxing. depends on the practitioner...all i know is, a MT knee to the balls is pretty effective in a clinch situation...

Hahaha so you think boxing or karate makes you capable of beating multiple opponents? If I can beat a boxer or karate guy one on one, then why do you think he is more capable of taking on more then one opponent if he can't even handle one wrestler? Imagine three wrestlers coming at that boxer.... Yeah, he is done. So is the grappler. Why? Because no martial art allows you to take on more then one opponent. All they have to do is swarm you.

Regarding the friend comment, yes. My friends are with me where a street fight is most likely to happen. Such as bars and resteruants, ect... To be honest it doesn't matter if they have any fighting ability. If they saw me, or another friend getting swarmed they would join.

This whole arguement is a joke. Why are people so narrow minded?

well shit...if im gonna get swarmed with multiple opponents, you better damn well know that id rather be on my feet than on the ground.

 

[BlendedGrappler]

They are apart of boxing, and when we're talking about street fighting everything and anything applies. I think you're confusing shitty boxing to real boxing.

If a move is illegal in boxing, then how is it part of boxing? Was the armbar that Tyson did against Botha in the 1st round a part of boxing? Or a part of grappling? Or both? Maybe we need to separate "clean boxing" and "dirty boxing".

 

[Paradigm]

If a move is illegal in boxing, then how is it part of boxing? Was the armbar that Tyson did against Botha in the 1st round a part of boxing? Or a part of grappling? Or both? Maybe we need to separate "clean boxing" and "dirty boxing".

you cant punch to the back of the head in "real" boxing but can in "dirty" boxing. you dont think it would be effective in a "street" fight?

youre not supposed to take people down on the concrete in "real" grappling...maybe people should lay out some mats first on the sidewalk when they do "dirty" grappling so no rules are broken?

 

[D3thr0n3d K1ng]

If youre getting swarmed by multiple opponents the best martial art would be a striking art: boxing, MT, karate + judo to throw people on the concrete.

 

[Hotora86]

Running is the best for street fighting. Unless you're an idiot who actually wants to fight and risk your life as well as risk going to jail. In that case train "not getting stabbed" and clenching your buttocks.

 

[BlendedGrappler]

you cant punch to the back of the head in "real" boxing but can in "dirty" boxing. you dont think it would be effective in a "street" fight?

youre not supposed to take people down on the concrete in "real" grappling...maybe people should lay out some mats first on the sidewalk when they do "dirty" grappling so no rules are broken?

A punch is still a technique from "clean" boxing, even if doing it to the back of the head is a "dirty" application of it. The standard hip toss / o-goshi is a technique from "clean" wrestling / judo, even if doing it onto concrete is a "dirty" application of it.

Whereas a headbutt is not a technique from "clean" boxing at all. In sparring do you headbutt your training partners (even lightly)? Do you practice and analyse set-ups and follow-ups to headbutts? Ditto for Mike Tyson style armbars, shoulder thrusts, elbows, tripping your opponent up, stomping on their feet, doing throws on your opponent from the clinch etc. If you are training these things, then I wouldn't say that you are training in boxing. Maybe "dirty boxing" (or "pre-Queensberry boxing for some of the techniques e.g. tripping your opponent up used to be legal, as were throws like the hip toss, which was called the "cross buttock"). This would probably be much more effective for street fighting.

Likewise, I would say that if you are modifying Judo throws so that your opponent lands on their head instead of their shoulders/back, then you are no longer doing Judo.

But if all you know how to do is the boxing techniques that are legal in competition, then you're not going to be that effective as a street fighter.

 

[TheBOO]

It doesn't hurt to know grappling but its good as well to know striking. I wouldn't say grappling is better in a street fight what if its more then one person.

 

[Azam]

Yeah I agree with many on here that running away is best, why get involved in a fight when you don't really need to.


If you have no choice but to defend yourself, then that's a different matter. As for me personally you really think trying to takedown someone on concrete is a good idea to apply a submission? I mean when you take-down someone it has to be with some force, the chances of you landing on some part of your body is huge - if its bone it will break (that's why grappling makes use of matt's to prevent injury) - I've seen first hand, someone trip while jogging and they landed on there arm/elbow & broke bone in the process - it's so easy to do on concrete.

Also people here have to factor in that punching bare knuckle is completely different, you face gets cut/bruised very quickly (we've seen how guys in mma get cut by 4oz to put it into comparison) - all it takes is for a well placed jab to literally f u up, HOWEVER standing submissions would work well but there harder to pull off imo.

Personally think Muay Thai, Judo, boxing, karate, sanda is alot better as a standalone art - best is to mix two of them. Tachi-waza from Judo is very applicable.

I think the reason why people think grappling - namely BJJ is the best to use on the street is because people see how dominant it is in MMA competition - but what people have to realise is MMA competition has rules, it doesn't indicate which style will work best - if you had no gloves, no matt, knees to a grounded opponent, 12-6 elbows & for the interest of fairness no groin or eye attacks, the fights would look alot different - then yes we might be able to see how good each is, but then tbh imho it would be the fighter more so than the style, even then it wouldn't be indicative ---- Yes some guys might point to the early UFC's but it has to be pointed out that there were no top judoka, muay thai fighters, karateka or even boxers for that matter lol - you might point at gerard gordeau - but those who don't know the guy despite his size & height, never made it past the last 32 in any kyokushin world tournament to put it into prospective.

 

[danielsaun]

Running is the best for street fighting. Unless you're an idiot who actually wants to fight and risk your life as well as risk going to jail. In that case train "not getting stabbed" and clenching your buttocks.

I agree with you, but let's be honest. Do you back down all the time when challenged or someone gets in your face? I don't all the time. I don't look for fights but I don't back down unless I believe I am outmatched. Yes I know that's stupid but I am honest and I think a lot of ppl on this forum are similar to me they just don't want to admit it. I have had the attitude since I was a kid. I never started a fight, but I didn't run either. From my reading of the law, if its mutual combat and no one get seriously hurt, then no one is going to prosecute you. I don't even know anyone that carries a knife or gun, except the people I know in MA. But my avg. co worker he doesn't carry a weapon and either do I.

 

[irc]

wait...so guys that train Boxing or MT dont know how to control distance...only BJJ guys? you know there is a bit of clinch in Muay Thai also, right?

The fu*k? I never said, or even implied, that strikers can't control range.

 

[p4p1]

IMO grappling is great in a street fight to make sure you dont end up on the ground because anything can happen then (anything can happen standing but you at least have a better chance to run if more people come in), as already stated being on the ground in a street fight really is not where you want to be so a mixture of both is much better. Obviously not as many people know how to grapple as effectively as stand but while you choking someone out you really dont want their mates running in and stomping the crap out of you

 

[Hotora86]

I agree with you,

Thanks!

but let's be honest.

Lets not.

Do you back down all the time when challenged or someone gets in your face?

If it means trouble, a street fight and a possible knife in my chest then yes.

I don't all the time.

I wish you luck then.

I don't look for fights but I don't back down unless I believe I am outmatched.

That's stupid.

Yes I know that's stupid

Then why do it?

but I am honest and I think a lot of ppl on this forum are similar to me

The majority of ppl is not always right. In fact, the majority is often stupid.

they just don't want to admit it.

Some do. Others (pro fighters too) prefer to deescalate a situation before the fight begins. Fighting is a job for them, they have nothing to prove, nothing to gain and all to lose in a street fight.

I have had the attitude since I was a kid.

People tend to change their attitude when they grow up. How old are you?

I never started a fight, but I didn't run either.

You have been lucky until now then. Still, that's stupid.

From my reading of the law, if its mutual combat and no one get seriously hurt, then no one is going to prosecute you.

How about if someone does get seriously hurt? You either end up in hospital or in jail.

I don't even know anyone that carries a knife or gun, except the people I know in MA.

Stupid people, especially if they don't have a license.
You'd be surprised BTW how many people bring a knife to a fist fight. Look up some police reports.

But my avg. co worker he doesn't carry a weapon and either do I.

At least you're not THAT stupid.

Just stay out of trouble. You play "tough guy" long enough, you end up in a body bag. Best of luck bro.

 

[DaGenius]

Ok..I will through some thoughts in on this. Honestly and rationally discussing street situations (pros and cons) is frankly one of the more useful things we can do to help each other.

First my standard every time disclaimer..avoid street fights at all costs. Its all fun and games until you seriously hurt somebody and catch and assault case. This is to say nothing of the obvious downside if you get smashed.

I train MT and BJJ. Frankly I have used more BJJ in street defense because when you choke someone out, its over and they arent damaged enough to sue you. Ive never gone to the ground and avoid it (like fights) at all costs. Stay standing guys.

Although the TS is going a little too hard to show hes a "bad ass"..boxing is as good a self defense martial art as anything. Say what you will but if you train boxing you do know how you react when/if you get hit hard. I love bjj but getting hit is not always part of the training and it does change things and make some guys freeze up.

Walk away guys and try to make sure any street fight you get into is a self defense situation. We all have limits but dont let some guys big mouth goad you into a fight. My personal limit..once you put your hands on me the wrong way were going to go all the way. Those of you who still can walk away from that or worse..youre a better man than I. Although I dont agree that you should always be afraid of what bad things can happen even if you defend yourself.

Best part about training is mentally you dont have anything to prove. All those loud mouths at bars are trying to prove things to their friends, girls they want to "impress", themselves etc. You put in the time in the gym..after a while you'll have nothing to prove to yourself or anybody. Keeps you out of stuff. Point being I choose not to street fight unless have to. I am not afraid and I believe thats part and parcel of training martial arts

 

[Strykerx]

If a move is illegal in boxing, then how is it part of boxing? Was the armbar that Tyson did against Botha in the 1st round a part of boxing? Or a part of grappling? Or both? Maybe we need to separate "clean boxing" and "dirty boxing".

Common dirty tactics in boxing are taught and at times uses to offset the opponent. In no other combat sport are low blows more intentional. If you're going to bring up Queenberry's rule then you forgot that boxing back in those times trained wrestling. Your entire argument is based on the premise that a boxer wouldn't know what to do in the clinch. Which comes off flawed and close minded. The clinch is used in boxing to tie up a fighter and promote rest. Smart fighters use it to land unseen blows.

Seems like you're implying if you clinch a boxer they wouldn't know what to do beyond wait for someone to break them apart. There are more kickboxers,boxers, karateka , etc that no more about grappling than you think. This has been fun, but you let's not forget this is a street fight. You're opponent could know anything and he might not be the only one you'll have to worry about.

 

[danielsaun]

I appreciate the posts I will reflect on my behavior to engage someone. I should probably just start learning to box or MT and take my frustrations out at the gym not the A hole that cut me off and is screaming at me.

 

[DonS**]

Hahaha so you think boxing or karate makes you capable of beating multiple opponents?

No, I don't, but the ability to keep people at a distance using jabs or kicks until you have space to run could work. It is possible to defeat multiple opponents using striking, not so much with grappling.

More to the point striking gives you a means of fighting while retaining mobility, so it is worthwhile for that.

If I can beat a boxer or karate guy one on one, then why do you think he is more capable of taking on more then one opponent if he can't even handle one wrestler? Imagine three wrestlers coming at that boxer.... Yeah, he is done. So is the grappler. Why? Because no martial art allows you to take on more then one opponent. All they have to do is swarm you.

I've seen a video of a cage fighter defeat several opponents using striking on the street.

I've also sparred in two vs one matches, I can say the outnumbered person is highly motivated to say the least, it gets the best out of you. Fighting for long against more then one person is probably a losing game, either you have to knock someone out quickly or else find a time to escape, but striking gives you the option.

Note, I very much think grappling is the best base for street defense. But grappling is not a complete defense system.

 

[DonS**]

I think the reason why people think grappling - namely BJJ is the best to use on the street is because people see how dominant it is in MMA competition - but what people have to realise is MMA competition has rules, it doesn't indicate which style will work best - if you had no gloves, no matt, knees to a grounded opponent, 12-6 elbows & for the interest of fairness no groin or eye attacks, the fights would look alot different - then yes we might be able to see how good each is, but then tbh imho it would be the fighter more so than the style, even then it wouldn't be indicative ---- Yes some guys might point to the early UFC's but it has to be pointed out that there were no top judoka, muay thai fighters, karateka or even boxers for that matter lol - you might point at gerard gordeau - but those who don't know the guy despite his size & height, never made it past the last 32 in any kyokushin world tournament to put it into prospective.

The elephant in your post: BJJ's success in modern MMA and its success in early UFC. Over a wide range of rules. Rules very different then BJJ rules.

I'm also not convinced about the lack of "top" fighters in early UFC. Boxing had a very deep talent pool in the early 90s, for example, and so did judo and karate etc. BJJ had a relatively shallow pool.

 

[p4p1]

Ok..I will through some thoughts in on this. Honestly and rationally discussing street situations (pros and cons) is frankly one of the more useful things we can do to help each other.

First my standard every time disclaimer..avoid street fights at all costs. Its all fun and games until you seriously hurt somebody and catch and assault case. This is to say nothing of the obvious downside if you get smashed.

I train MT and BJJ. Frankly I have used more BJJ in street defense because when you choke someone out, its over and they arent damaged enough to sue you. Ive never gone to the ground and avoid it (like fights) at all costs. Stay standing guys.

Although the TS is going a little too hard to show hes a "bad ass"..boxing is as good a self defense martial art as anything. Say what you will but if you train boxing you do know how you react when/if you get hit hard. I love bjj but getting hit is not always part of the training and it does change things and make some guys freeze up.

Walk away guys and try to make sure any street fight you get into is a self defense situation. We all have limits but dont let some guys big mouth goad you into a fight. My personal limit..once you put your hands on me the wrong way were going to go all the way. Those of you who still can walk away from that or worse..youre a better man than I. Although I dont agree that you should always be afraid of what bad things can happen even if you defend yourself.

Best part about training is mentally you dont have anything to prove. All those loud mouths at bars are trying to prove things to their friends, girls they want to "impress", themselves etc. You put in the time in the gym..after a while you'll have nothing to prove to yourself or anybody. Keeps you out of stuff. Point being I choose not to street fight unless have to. I am not afraid and I believe thats part and parcel of training martial arts

great post especially the last paragraph

 

[Paradigm]

The fu*k? I never said, or even implied, that strikers can't control range.

so whats the point of even mentioning range control if its most likely a given between any trained guys on the street?

Stupid people, especially if they don't have a license.
You'd be surprised BTW how many people bring a knife to a fist fight. Look up some police reports.

its not illegal to carry a blade under a certain length in California, AFAIK. i just dont think that it can be concealed.

 

[Paradigm]

double post