Why do I still not think Jones is goat?

[BFoe]

Jones had 1 positive test for an opponent he beat clean and everything else is just hateful fanfiction.

Jones was the GOAT since 2012 everything else has just been extra.

You forgetting his failure for clomiphene and letrozole? That happened in addition to the turinabol failure.
And that’s not even taking into account however many “pulsing” failed tests he had. Or his suspicious T/E ratio test.

lol @ the idea of Jones being clean while beating someone. I doubt he’s ever been clean in his whole career.

 

[Stump]

GSP has:

- GreaseGate against BJ 2
- WeighInGate against Diaz
- VADAGate against both Condit and Hendricks

He's hardly been flawless. He's just been very careful to be among and perceived as the most professional MMA's had yet. He was the first to really "get" that he's needs that image of a professional athlete too, not just a fighter who should be wearing TapOut because he's a fighter bro.

People are just willing to ignore black marks on their preferred GOATs. That's all.

You're out to lunch. To claim the trumped up bullshit in greasegate and the complaints launched at him by notoriously cheddar-cheese brained Diaz are anything comparable to the serious and well documented infractions in a variety of forms committed by jones, is to completely obfuscate what's obvious to anyone with a brain.

The steroid testing horseshit with condit and Hendricks are dismissable, too. Georges did nothing wrong there, these are just further examples of his opponents fabricating criticisms that don't hold any water whatsoever, and you're a dork to bring them up as if they have any merit

This is bad faith discussion, and you should feel bad

Diaz also claimed Georges drugged his water bottle. Why not include that?

 

[SuperAlly]

And PED's are rampant in every sport including this one, even the most delusional fans know that but they make an exception for the fighters they dislike while others get a pass and it never even gets mentioned. Why? Because fight fans are emotional girls who are lead by their personal like or dislike for fighters.

The hypocrisy and lack of self awareness here is startling

 

[Stump]

It is pretty funny how this is literally true yet they still fall back on the excuse. It's been 8 years since his last fail and he's still winning just like he was before. That 8 years alone is a HOF career, let alone everything before it even if you did want to say it doesn't count.

It's almost like it's never been the PEDs and they just want whatever desperate excuse they can cling to.

It wasn't just a fail 8 years ago tho was it Shill171? There's consistent evidence of a history of cheating, hiding from from drug testers, intimidating/threatening drug testers and being the beneficiary of the drug testing officiants clear efforts to excuse and pardon his failed tests. "Salt in a swimming pool!"

Also, jones has absolutely lost a step in his last lhw fights, with a majority of fans and pundits feeling he lost fights to Reyes, and Santos.

 

[PaddyO'malley]

Ootside of mi yute Big Mac JJ di GOAT yuh seem mad casual tho doubt yuh kno aboot him ( ) str8 Wastelandmans TS

 

[Fedorgasm]

If his fights were officiated well then he'd have several more DQ's on his record.

And he probably would've lost some due to losing points for fouls.

And he would've lost to Reyes too at the very least.

And he would've had to fight a real HW contender instead of a long retired fighter who wasn't even top 10.

And the fight vs Cormier would be a loss instead of a no contest.

Once you account for those things, his record is less impressive.

Still a pretty good fighter though. Had a chance to be the legit LHW goat but he decided to cheat.

 

[sickness666]

It's nonsense. In Boxing the men who are worshipped were all dirtbags who cheated on their wives and even beat them. Go read bio's on Ray Robinson, Joe Louis, Ali etc. Michael Jordan the GOAT was a mean prick who was so heavily into gambling, some think it got his father killed. Maradonna was no sweetheart. I could go on.

And PED's are rampant in every sport including this one, even the most delusional fans know that but they make an exception for the fighters they dislike while others get a pass and it never even gets mentioned. Why? Because fight fans are emotional girls who are lead by their personal like or dislike for fighters.

Nobody you mentioned is a GOAT to me. And if a women beater or rapist is someones GOAT what says that about this person? That´s that.

And your PED discription I read really often, and btw there is not the slightest evidence for it to proof this argument. If someone want´s his cheater hero called GOAT you can read it all the time. Like I said: bring me proper evidence for this shit we can talk about. Till than there is no need to take you or your argument serious.

 

[markg171]

If his fights were officiated well then he'd have several more DQ's on his record.

And he probably would've lost some due to losing points for fouls.

And he would've lost to Reyes too at the very least.

And he would've had to fight a real HW contender instead of a long retired fighter who wasn't even top 10.

And the fight vs Cormier would be a loss instead of a no contest.

Once you account for those things, his record is less impressive.

Still a pretty good fighter though. Had a chance to be the legit LHW goat but he decided to cheat.

Hey man at least he's never been submitted in 60 seconds

 

[markg171]

To claim the trumped up bullshit in greasegate

He's literally on video being slathered in grease by his corner while fighting a guy he'd planned to be in the guard of

the complaints launched at him by notoriously cheddar-cheese brained Diaz

The Quebec Commission and GSP both admitted he weighed 170.2 and was rounded down instead of needing to make the 170 championship weight

The steroid testing horseshit with condit and Hendricks are dismissable, too. Georges did nothing wrong there, these are just further examples of his opponents fabricating criticisms that don't hold any water whatsoever, and you're a dork to bring them up as if they have any merit

It absolutely was a conflict of interest from GSP to want VADA being the outside enhanced testing when VADA was sponsoring GSP. Condit and Hendricks were right to object to that, even if Hendricks also never planned on doing any regardless. And Condit wanted USADA so you don't get to fault him there but be happy with USADA later being the UFC's testing regardless.

Also while I get why he did it, but GSP's lawyer asking NSAC what was being tested, how often, etc, under their enhanced testing was also a red flag. Did he (seemingly) want to check that to compare to VADA? Sure, but if even a dumb fuck like Kizer says your lawyer shouldn't be asking these kind of questions then you should probably listen.

anything comparable to the serious and well documented infractions in a variety of forms committed by jones, is to completely obfuscate what's obvious to anyone with a brain.

I never said they were.

I'm not the one pretending though one was a saint to the other, nor that someone being a massive piece of shit suddenly makes anybody lesser not one too.

 

[Eric Silva 2.0]

My op, yeah he’s good but I don’t see him in the same light others do i guess
There’s several things at play, maybe you might agree
His lack of knockouts in a big man division bothers me
His attacks on opponents knees bug me too- the eye pokes meh not so much but there’s been a bunch, more than anyone I can think of
The steroid thing, what is it twice? Can’t remember but it seems ugly. For sure he hid under the cage from USADA, but they were assholes to some fighters so I get it
His lack of humility, I’m surprised he doesn’t talk about himself in the 3rd person
The arrests ( his character) the domestic shit
I wouldn’t want his endorsement if I had a company for sure
The close fights with Gus and what’s his face , that a lot of people thought he Lost - the way he dropped Machida on his face unconscious from a standing choke , his hot mic stuff, his off camera mouth , his fake Christianity and he made DC cry (not nice) I don’t kmow- after he retires or loses , I’ll post a thread saying”he was never that good anyways “ because I just don’t think he is all that

 

[MMAFanCal]

My op, yeah he’s good but I don’t see him in the same light others do i guess
There’s several things at play, maybe you might agree
His lack of knockouts in a big man division bothers me
His attacks on opponents knees bug me too- the eye pokes meh not so much but there’s been a bunch, more than anyone I can think of
The steroid thing, what is it twice? Can’t remember but it seems ugly. For sure he hid under the cage from USADA, but they were assholes to some fighters so I get it
His lack of humility, I’m surprised he doesn’t talk about himself in the 3rd person
The arrests ( his character) the domestic shit
I wouldn’t want his endorsement if I had a company for sure
The close fights with Gus and what’s his face , that a lot of people thought he Lost - the way he dropped Machida on his face unconscious from a standing choke , his hot mic stuff, his off camera mouth , his fake Christianity and he made DC cry (not nice) I don’t kmow- after he retires or loses , I’ll post a thread saying”he was never that good anyways “ because I just don’t think he is all that

Add Dominic Reyes to the list. He lost that fight. Period.

 

[JKS]

If his fights were officiated well then he'd have several more DQ's on his record.

And he probably would've lost some due to losing points for fouls.

And he would've lost to Reyes too at the very least.

And he would've had to fight a real HW contender instead of a long retired fighter who wasn't even top 10.

And the fight vs Cormier would be a loss instead of a no contest.

Once you account for those things, his record is less impressive.

Still a pretty good fighter though. Had a chance to be the legit LHW goat but he decided to cheat.

Which Cormier fight would be a loss??

 

[GluttonforPunishment]

It's because you like many others are unable to separate their own emotions/biases from reality

You could make a list like that with any other GOAT candidate

Facts are that no other fighter has accomplished half of what Jones has when you look at the records, accolades, resume, and number of titles won

No other goat candidate went under the same strict testing Jones did under USADA so trying to discredit him with PED use also doesn't work, and his personal life is irrelevant to his fighting career

When you look at the facts and numbers there is no argument

Fucking facts

 

[Fedorgasm]

Which Cormier fight would be a loss??

The one that was turned into a no-contest.

I mean, he broke the rules vs Hammill and was disqualified.

He broke the rules vs DC, but wasn't disqualified?

It doesn't make any sense.

 

[Bend NvR Break]

All I'm going to say is that 2 things can be true.
Jon can be a shitty person and be the MMA goat at the same time.

People a problem separating their emotions from Jon's accomplishments.

 

[Kenny Powerth]

Because most or all of his wins should be overturned

 

[JKS]

The one that was turned into a no-contest.

I mean, he broke the rules vs Hammill and was disqualified.

He broke the rules vs DC, but wasn't disqualified?

It doesn't make any sense.

That's because fights that are overturned due to PEDs are ruled a NC. They don't take a win and make it a loss, it's a NC and they get stripped.

Difference is he broke the rules within the fight itself and that caused the DQ vs Hammil. The Cormier scenario is not within the actual competition. You can't take a TKO win for one fighter and then give the other fighter the W cause the guy pisses hot. In no way did DC beat Jones based on any rule set.

 

[markg171]

The one that was turned into a no-contest.

I mean, he broke the rules vs Hammill and was disqualified.

He broke the rules vs DC, but wasn't disqualified?

It doesn't make any sense.

That's because fights that are overturned due to PEDs are ruled a NC. They don't take a win and make it a loss, it's a NC and they get stripped.

Difference is he broke the rules within the fight itself and that caused the DQ vs Hammil. The Cormier scenario is not within the actual competition. You can't take a TKO win for one fighter and then give the other fighter the W cause the guy pisses hot. In no way did DC beat Jones based on any rule set.

I can only imagine the aneurism some people would have if they knew that Barnett's title win over Randy still stands despite him likewise pissing hot in his post-fight tests. The win's still official and Barnett's still an official champion. All they did was strip him of the title for it.

And this was AFTER he'd already failed his drug test in his previous fight 4 months prior and been let off with a warning back then.

Sherdog would be in a meltdown if Jon's win was still standing and he'd still officially become LHW champion then and was simply stripped afterwards. Which is funny as that's how DC himself views it and that his win over Volkan was really winning another vacant title.

 

[MitMcl]

Personally, there are two rules in MMA that I view as most important:

1. You make weight
2. You pass your drug test

Most fighters are able to do this. If you’re that big of a cheat that you can’t meet these two rules, it’s going impact your legacy, especially if you do break them multiple times.

This doesn’t disqualify Jones from being the GOAT IMO, but is something that needs be factored in.

 

[SuperAlly]

So many people on steroids in MMA. Seems trivial, petty, and arbitrary to single out Jon the way that some of you people do.

They aren’t singling him out

He’s one of 2 in the GOAT conversation who is absolutely guaranteed to have doped

Others don’t get shit because they weren’t caught

The mental gymnastics here is off the scale

Anyone liking your post has brain damage. It is logically and morally false