Why do BJJ guys say...

[fozzit]

ok... so whats your point... i agree with most the shit you say.. you still havent proved that the gracie's were guard jumpers or butt scooters... So i still stand by my original statement that guard jumping and butt scooting wasnt excessively used until the 80's, and before them, most bjj guys (who are not the gracie's) cross trained with judo, or had strong tachi waza to begin with... I get my perspective from talking with Carley and his student's, various Judo and Jiu Jitsu articles, talkign with MAster De La Riva, and just abotu anyone who wants to share their thoughts on judo and jiu jitsu. I cross train too and although I'm a white belt in both arts, I still want to know everything there is to know about both. So thank you for your information about Wallid, I'm glad to know you can throw your instructor and 240 lb people. Cool Man.

Keep Training.. I'll stop arguing with you now.


If you have any questions or want to share some more cool information with me my email is [email protected]...

-Ken Thomas

Yeah ko uchi is a ashi waza but it isnt ashi waza...

but whatever bro..

 

[Sherdog_Mutt]

At least we all agree that the thread starter is an ignorant troll.

 

[Stoic1]

ok... so whats your point...

My point was that BJJ is evolving and developing a strong takedown game based on crosstraining. That the "OG's" of BJJ were weak in the takedown department.

you still havent proved that the gracie's were guard jumpers or butt scooters...

Dude I think I have done so in a most decisive fasion. I looked at the earliest footage availible and traced it along the lines until Royce's generation. In all instances we see the tackle followed by the guard drag. I have give many examples from Helio against Kato and Kimura and so forth. Again, look at Royce's strategies.

I gave examples of the entire 2nd generation (generalization) being destroyed by Wallid, largely by his willingness to crosstrain and thier inability to adapt to an evolving BJJ game.

I took it to the most recent examples that I could, that of Jacare beating Roger Gracie in the absolute finals in the Mundials last week with a takedown. Another example of how the takedown game has evolved and being used in BJJ.

So i still stand by my original statement that guard jumping and butt scooting wasnt excessively used until the 80's, and before them, most bjj guys (who are not the gracie's) cross trained with judo, or had strong tachi waza to begin with...

Again you really didnt provide any examples or proof to give your opinion any weight. I painstakingly illustrated why you are wrong. In fact you proved yourself wrong by giving the example of the Judo guys from the 40-50's jumping guard. Hell, you brought up Royler probably the biggest buttscooter on the planet.

Yeah ko uchi is a ashi waza but it isnt ashi waza...but whatever bro..

Uhhh what now?

 

[fozzit]

My point was that BJJ is evolving and developing a strong takedown game based on crosstraining. That the "OG's" of BJJ were weak in the takedown department.

I AGREE... But I still say that the old jiu jitsu matches started with the formula of take down/throw, control, then submission.

Dude I think I have done so in a most decisive fasion. I looked at the earliest footage availible and traced it along the lines until Royce's generation. In all instances we see the tackle followed by the guard drag. I have give many examples from Helio against Kato and Kimura and so forth. Again, look at Royce's strategies.

I gave examples of the entire 2nd generation (generalization) being destroyed by Wallid, largely by his willingness to crosstrain and thier inability to adapt to an evolving BJJ game.

I took it to the most recent examples that I could, that of Jacare beating Roger Gracie in the absolute finals in the Mundials last week with a takedown. Another example of how the takedown game has evolved and being used in BJJ.

Well great because I never argued against the second generation being weak at throws, i simply stated the old gracie jiu jitsu curriculum had more complete tachi waza in the curriculum and throws were still important in jiu jitsu competition. Sure compared to today their tachi waza was shit, but tachi waza has been evolving since then in judo, just as ne waza evolved today in bjj. So what the fuck we arguing about here? I cross train in Judo for the simple reason I don't learn enough stand up at my academy. I agree NOWADAYS bjj is super weak in the take down department and especially in nage waza.


Again you really didnt provide any examples or proof to give your opinion any weight. I painstakingly illustrated why you are wrong. In fact you proved yourself wrong by giving the example of the Judo guys from the 40-50's jumping guard. Hell, you brought up Royler probably the biggest buttscooter on the planet.

How was mentioning judoka jumping guard proving me wrong that old jiu jitsu competition were prevelant with throws, and old gracie jiu jitsu curriculum having more tachi waza in their syllabus? You haven't proved me wrong, and neither have.

Uhhh what now?

Now we stop

???!????

 

[Foolkiller]

damnit i missed this gem, can someone please re-host?

I'll rehost and just PM you the link, I knew the fucking leeches would ruin my efforts.

 

[Gsoares2***]

My point was that BJJ is evolving and developing a strong takedown game based on crosstraining. That the "OG's" of BJJ were weak in the takedown department.



Dude I think I have done so in a most decisive fasion. I looked at the earliest footage availible and traced it along the lines until Royce's generation. In all instances we see the tackle followed by the guard drag. I have give many examples from Helio against Kato and Kimura and so forth. Again, look at Royce's strategies.

I gave examples of the entire 2nd generation (generalization) being destroyed by Wallid, largely by his willingness to crosstrain and thier inability to adapt to an evolving BJJ game.

I took it to the most recent examples that I could, that of Jacare beating Roger Gracie in the absolute finals in the Mundials last week with a takedown. Another example of how the takedown game has evolved and being used in BJJ.



Again you really didnt provide any examples or proof to give your opinion any weight. I painstakingly illustrated why you are wrong. In fact you proved yourself wrong by giving the example of the Judo guys from the 40-50's jumping guard. Hell, you brought up Royler probably the biggest buttscooter on the planet.



Uhhh what now?

Roger, and Jacare both cross train you moron.
And roger has beaten Jacare moe times... He broke his arm a little while back.. Jacare proceeded to run around after with a broken arm to win by points... Both great guys.. But that was a horrible example

 

[Dedicado]

His arm wasn't broken, it was hyper-extended. Jacare called the tourney from the hospital and told them he was okay.

 

[sakufan]

Wallid choked out Royce. He defeated Ralph and Ryan soundly. He DID NOT own Renzo. He won the match on points. He would later get his ass handed him (getting choked) by one Renzo's star pupils while he was the head instructor at Gracie Barra, Roberto "Roleta" Magalhaes, who handed Wallid his only loss as a black belt in a spectacular way: with Wallid ahead on points and 30 seconds left, Roleta did a helicopter sweep and ended up getting the tap from Wallid with 10 secs left.

 

[GracieMMABarra]

It really depends on who u train with...I train with Ricardo Guimaraes (BB under Marcelo Pereira) and every few weeks we bring in Paul(dont know last name) but is a 6th degree BB in Judoka to improve are standing game. Also IMO good wrestlers with good jiu-jitsu is a great combination and very hard to defeat. ADCC is the best grappling tourny bar-none