OneCrazymofo**
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What????
Why would you say that its not like your in a abusive relationship living with a spouse sharing house,kids etc...
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Why DId Penn leave Gracie for Andre Pederneiras
- Thread starter butterface**
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What????
Why would you say that its not like your in a abusive relationship living with a spouse sharing house,kids etc...
After the incident, Ralph had a screenshot of the punch proudly hanging on the wall of his academy.
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I dunno, i'd kind of want an instructor to go balls out on me every so often just to see if i could hang.
platfox
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I think he is saying its exactly like being in an abusive domestic relationship (which is hard to leave). You spend alot of time together (alot of times more than with your real family or friends), you have a heirarchy (just like in a family), and you trust your instructor to guide you just like you would a father figure.
The other thing is, leaving would be hard if you're someone like Dave because I'm sure bjj was his whole life. Now he has to leave that all behind and try to start all over. Especially if Ralph is threatening to "fuck you up" if you try to teach somewhere else.
platfox
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Yeah but theres a difference between "ok today we are going to do some heavy sparring, don't hold back" and "hey, you come here, followed by a judo toss, mount, and some gnp". First would be an awesome training tool, the latter was just someone punking you in front of all the other students.
Also in my example you quoted, the story I heard was...they were just having a roll (no strikes), then all of a sudden he Ralph just opens up and starts pounding on him. Even if Dave could hang, how do you react in that situation? It would feel weird trying to get into an all out brawl with your instructor. Not just because he's your iunstructor, he's a pro mma fighter, but also the "wtf is going on" moment thats going on in your head.
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when that shit happens you do what you can to get out of the fight without injuries, then get up, walk out and never come back again.
they are great instructors, but if they wanna act like retarded gorillas they can go fuck themselves. bjj and mma are on my mind pretty much all the time, if i could i'd train all day long. but if my instructor hit me during a roll, i'd bite him in the fucking nuts and never come back to the gym.
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ralph seems like a total dickhead from reading and watching this stuff, just a bully who needs an asskicking from one of his students, bj should have fought him and messed him up rather than fighting the legend that is renzo.
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Ralph will never fight BJ...
Renzo fought him because he will fight anyone who asks
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exaaaacty.
Renzo will always be the man, but this all makes Ralph look really bad.
BJ would KILLIFY Ralph in under 20seconds, and he knew it even back then.
I guess his jealousy made him even more of a dick.
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Yeh, renzo is fucking awesome it was bj's dad who arranged it because he owned rotr. I think ralph would fight him and lose heavily.
You all have to remember at that time, the BJJ scene was drastically different than it is today. Not trying to defend Ralph, but just trying to shed how his side of the story may sound....
When Ralph first opened shop it was a time when many instructors were accused of holding back (especially to Americans), not showing everything, and the BJJ scene was very divided. Team lines were disctinctly drawn and there was very little cross training with other schools/teams. Today, the BJJ market is huge, open, and we all pretty much can train wherever and with whoever we want. When Ralph came, he invested so much into his students and it showed (if you were around then you would know that Ralph's crew was often regarded as one of if not THE toughest schools in the country). His guys were wrecking everyone. Say what you want about Ralph as a person, but as an instructor he is top notch. We've heard from many former students about how bad a person he is, but they will always credit him as being a fantastic instructor. Ralph put so much into those guys and wanted to keep it all really tight, so it was natural for him to want to keep everything within the family. People badmouth Ralph but I don't think they understand how sincere and dedicated he was as an instructor. If you've ever had a chance to train with him, you'd know what I'm talking about. It's because of this that he probably felt like it was a slap in the face when someone wanted to leave or go train elsewhere.
I believe Ralph was just slow with adapting to the changing BJJ scene. When people started training all over, he kept with his old ways and it costed him (and his students). He's lost many top students (BJ, Dave, Dan, Crosley). We can see today the benefits of training with many different styles/schools as you can see many of today's top BJJ stars have jumped teams many times. As other schools adapted with the times, students have access to so much more and the game is progressing because of the open access to information. Ralph's team is no longer ahead of the curve because of this. The guy's got his shortcomings but I can see where he was coming from...and while you hear of the many bad incidents you cannot deny that his approach produced some tough SOB's.
When Ralph first opened shop it was a time when many instructors were accused of holding back (especially to Americans), not showing everything, and the BJJ scene was very divided. Team lines were disctinctly drawn and there was very little cross training with other schools/teams. Today, the BJJ market is huge, open, and we all pretty much can train wherever and with whoever we want. When Ralph came, he invested so much into his students and it showed (if you were around then you would know that Ralph's crew was often regarded as one of if not THE toughest schools in the country). His guys were wrecking everyone. Say what you want about Ralph as a person, but as an instructor he is top notch. We've heard from many former students about how bad a person he is, but they will always credit him as being a fantastic instructor. Ralph put so much into those guys and wanted to keep it all really tight, so it was natural for him to want to keep everything within the family. People badmouth Ralph but I don't think they understand how sincere and dedicated he was as an instructor. If you've ever had a chance to train with him, you'd know what I'm talking about. It's because of this that he probably felt like it was a slap in the face when someone wanted to leave or go train elsewhere.
I believe Ralph was just slow with adapting to the changing BJJ scene. When people started training all over, he kept with his old ways and it costed him (and his students). He's lost many top students (BJ, Dave, Dan, Crosley). We can see today the benefits of training with many different styles/schools as you can see many of today's top BJJ stars have jumped teams many times. As other schools adapted with the times, students have access to so much more and the game is progressing because of the open access to information. Ralph's team is no longer ahead of the curve because of this. The guy's got his shortcomings but I can see where he was coming from...and while you hear of the many bad incidents you cannot deny that his approach produced some tough SOB's.
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wow Renzo got the nice genes while Ryan and Ralph got the crazy ones
Here is an interview where Ralph speak a bit on this mentality of staying loyal. PROMMA.INFO Exclusive Interview - Ralph Gracie |
In Northern California/Bay Area, the majority of BJJ here came from Ralph and Cesar. The teaching methods and techniques can be traced to those 2. Throughout the years though this has changes as many other instructors have made the Bay Area their home. However when you look at the majority of the schools here, they can easily be traced from Ralph/Cesar. I think they pretty much set the roots for BJJ in this area.
In Northern California/Bay Area, the majority of BJJ here came from Ralph and Cesar. The teaching methods and techniques can be traced to those 2. Throughout the years though this has changes as many other instructors have made the Bay Area their home. However when you look at the majority of the schools here, they can easily be traced from Ralph/Cesar. I think they pretty much set the roots for BJJ in this area.
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i can relate to the respect as in not training with academies around where you train, which you can potentially fight one of their members in any local tourny.... but to travel to a new country and train is completely fine in my books
He usually just drops by. His schools will have 1 main instructor and Ralph will drop by to teach some techniques once in a while.
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i think Penn already left Ralph by then but Penn didn't leave Gracie for Pederneiras, he just got his BB from Pederneiras to compete at the BB level at the Mundials. i don't think he meant for Pederneiras to be his head instructor.
in Penn's documentary "90 days", they tell the story of how Penn went to Brazil and in order to get his BB he had to do challenge matches against 2 other BB's in front of the school. he earned his BB and a few days later he won the mundials.
in Penn's documentary "90 days", they tell the story of how Penn went to Brazil and in order to get his BB he had to do challenge matches against 2 other BB's in front of the school. he earned his BB and a few days later he won the mundials.
