Why are the boxing and ufc hw divisions about equally stale?

[georgejjr]

If you're a smallish guy but have excellent athleticism, martial arts, particularly wrestling, would be one of a few options where the lack of weight/height isn't necessarily a detriment.

Not sure if that's true in most of the world. How big do you have to be to play high level soccer (which pays millions per year for good players all around the world).

Of course, soccer is much more competitive than combat sports (its arguably the most competitive sport in the world, given its the most popular sport in most of the world), so if you're just looking at athleticism, MMA and boxing get the guys who can't make the soccer squad (just like they get the guys in North America who can't make the basketball/football/hockey squad). Moreover, soccer has almost no barriers to poor folks (you just need a ball and a field), which is probably one reason its so popular all over the world.

As far as that goes, how big is the average baseball player?

 

[wompuscatwilly]

Why are some of you saying pay? The thread relates not only MMA but Boxing also. Say what you will about UFC pay but if a boy is basing their decision on which sport pays the most than it's boxing. Using the argument that big athletes are choosing other sports based on where they can make the most money then the HW boxing divisions would be stacked! Athletes go into the sports they excell at. They don't choose at 10 years old to pursue football or basketball over combat because IF they're in the top % of their sport in 10-12 years they think it will pay more?wtf?

 

[LiverpoolUFC**]

I think people are just realising that bigger doesn't mean a better fight, and that lighter guys can still get the K.O

 

[Kingfarthur]

MMA gets the football players not good enough to play football.

Mitrione, Schuab, Lesnar, Marcus Jones, Shivers

Mainly white guys

And none of these guys are/were very good except Lesnar, who didn't play football for like 15 years and on a whim nearly made an NFL roster.

I like how people compare the NFL to the UFC, like they're similar sports. Nobody ever said, "yeah but could Muhammad Ali play in the NFL?" Or with Holyfield, Tyson, or Frasier either. And judging by how NFL players do in MMA, MMA might be a harder sport to compete in. Just because you're an NFL player doesn't mean you'd come into the UFC and dominate.

 

[Sean]

Boxing used to be the most lucrative meal ticket for athletic people coming from dirt-poor backgrounds.

When Ali was making millions, baseball players made 40K average, vs. 3.31 million today. NBA and NFL players have seen similar explosions in compensation.

Less grueling, more glamorous and less brain-damaging options are available for someone who is particularly athletic that pay as well or better than boxing, so there's not as much talent choosing boxing or MMA vs other sports.

You are going back a long way. Thirty years ago there was more money in football and basketball then boxing. Sure the top guys in boxing make more for a payday then anyother sport but everyone else on the cards makes shit. The mininum salary in the NFL was like a half million. And yet the ninties was the best decade for HW boxing since the Ali/Frasier/Foreman era.

Also everyone seems to be assuming all athletic talent is transferable, as well as all the best HW talent coming out of the states.

There is a reason for seeing less talented HW wrestlers enter into MMA, and that answer is simple. Wrestlng programs have been cut in many colleges due to a law requiring equal athletic oppurtunites for women as men. Instead of schools cutting into large basketball/football budgets to fund more womens programs, they simply slashed the lesser popular mens programs like wrestling. The Bill had good intentions but so does the path to hell as they say.

 

[Sean]

Why are some of you saying pay? The thread relates not only MMA but Boxing also. Say what you will about UFC pay but if a boy is basing their decision on which sport pays more than it's boxing. Using the argument that big athletes are choosing other sports based on where they can make the most money then the HW boxing divisions would be stacked! Athletes go into the sports they excell at. They don't choose at 10 years old to pursue football or basketball over combat because IF they're in the top % of their sport in 10-12 years they think it will pay more?wtf?

Although i agree with your last statement I will state again boxing does not pay more. Only to the very top guys, and thats like .01 percent of all professionals or less. In football or basketball simply making the big leagues will earn a player more in three years then the average person makes thier whole career. And a shit ton more then 99.99 percent of boxers.

 

[kwd1253]

Actually it's to do with the way light passes through ozone in the atmosphere but anyways I was actually looking for an answer.

Belfort said your both wrong! Jesus told belfort that god made it blue because blue is god's favorite color!

 

[wompuscatwilly]

Although i agree with your last statement I will state again boxing does not pay more. Only to the very top guys, and thats like .01 percent of all professionals or less. In football or basketball simply making the big leagues will earn a player more in three years then the average person makes thier whole career. And a shit ton more then 99.99 percent of boxers.

I meant most not more

 

[Jocke]

Even though the obvious answer is that theres much more money to be made elsewhere, it's kind of interesting there isnt more interest considering the HW division in MMA is super stale and I think most athletic heavies would have a better chance at making it in the UFC than in the NFL.

 

[WandySaku2]

Not sure if that's true in most of the world. How big do you have to be to play high level soccer (which pays millions per year for good players all around the world).

Of course, soccer is much more competitive than combat sports (its arguably the most competitive sport in the world, given its the most popular sport in most of the world), so if you're just looking at athleticism, MMA and boxing get the guys who can't make the soccer squad (just like they get the guys in North America who can't make the basketball/football/hockey squad). Moreover, soccer has almost no barriers to poor folks (you just need a ball and a field), which is probably one reason its so popular all over the world.

As far as that goes, how big is the average baseball player?

True, soccer is probably one of the few top level, lucrative sports a smaller guy can get into, but like you said, it's very competitive. That, and the amount of "soccer sized" people are a dime a dozen, so there's no shortage of athletes. So, from your point if MMA/Boxing is getting 2nd tier athletes at the smaller weights, then HW is probably getting 4th tier or worse (on average).

Baseball players tend to be bigger than you might think, particularly pitchers.

 

[fzoid4454]

Why are some of you saying pay? The thread relates not only MMA but Boxing also. Say what you will about UFC pay but if a boy is basing their decision on which sport pays the most than it's boxing. Using the argument that big athletes are choosing other sports based on where they can make the most money then the HW boxing divisions would be stacked! Athletes go into the sports they excell at. They don't choose at 10 years old to pursue football or basketball over combat because IF they're in the top % of their sport in 10-12 years they think it will pay more?wtf?

There's not NFL, or NBA career out there for you if you are 5'8", 170 lbs. Those sports all require players to be, pretty much over 205 lbs, for the most part. RB, O-lineman, QB, D-lineman, linebacker, even about half of the d-backs and wide receivers.

Slap single hitters are pretty much a thing of the past in baseball, as well. Bigger, with more power and speed is also at more of a premium, though smaller guys can get a career there.

So, no, there is no premium in those sports for guys who would be at lower weight classes in boxing or MMA. At least, not like there would be for athletic guys over 205.

My argument was just "pay" - but the fact that the pay differential has changed, drastically over time. Yeah, Floyd Mayweather makes huge coin, but the AVERAGE NFL or NBA player now makes huge money, much moreso than the average professional boxer. Even if that were not the case, millions vs millions now as opposed to millions vs 30K back in the day means there's more options for big athletes to make, where before it wasn't as much the case.

 

[HaterSlayer]

Big guys are typically not good athletes and the ones who are would generally prefer to make a living in the NFL, NBA etc. as opposed to by doing something which requires the heart and will to overcome adversity and so forth.

The NFL requires heart and the need to overcome adversity. Same with the NBA in some cases. NFL players go through hell during the season.

Anyway others pretty much addressed it. Most of the huge athletic guys are in the NBA or NFL.

Oh and just because I wanted a reason to post this gif. Here are the kind of big athletes the NFL gets. The black guy(if you're not familiar with the NFL) is 6'5 270 pounds

 

[grooves12]

Athletic 250 pound men are just so common, I don't understand why there aren't more of them in combat sports.

 

[georgejjr]

True, soccer is probably one of the few top level, lucrative sports a smaller guy can get into, but like you said, it's very competitive. That, and the amount of "soccer sized" people are a dime a dozen, so there's no shortage of athletes. So, from your point if MMA/Boxing is getting 2nd tier athletes at the smaller weights, then HW is probably getting 4th tier or worse (on average).

Baseball players tend to be bigger than you might think, particularly pitchers.

That's almost certainly true for North America, I wonder how true it is for the rest of the world (seriously, I don't know). Other than soccer, what sports pay big outside North America?

Tennis, but being tall seems to be an advantage there. Cricket I'd guess in India, but if size is important in baseball, I'd guess its important in cricket too. Size is important in rugby, and Australia has its own version of football to boot. And size is important in hockey (northern Europe and Russia) But how many positions are there for those sports?

Come to think of it, your average WW walks around at a fit 190-200 pounds. Meaning most WW's would be an acceptable size for a skilled hockey or baseball player - and since even the guys sitting on the bench in the NHL or MLB make a million+ a year, perhaps even WW and up get the 2nd choice in terms of athletic ability. The chances are that for instance your average NHL guy weighing 190 pounds is more athletic than GSP (the most athletic kids in Canada play hockey - trust me on this, its not even close).

Meaning HW might not be as unique in not having top talent as people suggest - anyone from WW up who is athletically exceptional is probably playing one of the top team sports (soccer in most of the world, hockey or baseball in NA).

Which might be an argument for watching the lower weight divisions (LW and under); they're probably the only ones that draw from the most athletic folks in the world in their size range.

Of course the whole question of how much general athleticism crosses over into fighting comes up at that point. The ability (and willingness) to take a punch is pretty selective, both physically and mentally. Crosbie is almost certainly much more athletic than GSP is (and is about the same size), but even if he weren't making much more than GSP playing hockey I'm not sure his athleticism would translate into MMA. Same for someone like say Lebron James vs Cain.

 

[wilKO]

People aren't normally HW size and in shape. Humans don't function that well the bigger they are. Most humans are FW/LW size.

 

[SuperNerd]

Even if I was 250 lbs, I wouldn't want get punched by someone 250 pounds.

You're that big and athletic, there are so many better options than combat sports.

 

[Nova Q]

A successful heavyweight will have to be at least 6'1 and weigh over 225 pounds -- being in shape and with modest body fat. There are just not a lot of people with that type of physique in the world. The ones who do exist can make a lot more money in other sports.

Didn't Arreola only make like $100,000 for Saturday's title fight? Top UFC heavyweights make even less. Even a shitty football or basketball fighter makes multiple times that amount.

 

[CaptainPunch]

Chemtrails are making human beings smaller.

 

[Someone88]

The Boxing Heavyweight Division is a lot better than the UFC's. There are more contenders and exciting prospects. Now Wladimir has some possibly challenging fights coming up. Cain and Dos Santos are excellent as well, but after them there is a big drop off. I'm a fan of both sports, I'm just stating what I see.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

Sums it up. Combat sports simply can't provide the financial incentive, either from direct prizes, or from sponsorship and marketing deals. Those that do combat sports either really love it, or simply couldn't make it in a more "mainstream" sports.

Sure, a few of the elite can make it through, but the vast majority? No.

It is not so much the financial allure as it is that football and basketball are high prestige sports in junior high school, high school, and college, while boxing and MMA gyms are outside the school social circle.

If money was the major factor, few top athletes would play football, because the money is significantly greater in the NBA.