Who wins this little fantasy tournament?

Gah, Mugabi was brought up from JMW to fight Hagler and had a total of exactly 3 fights as a MW once it happened. He never KO'd anyone really noteworthy and was stopped in 3 immediately after fighting Hagler.

John is at-best a "what would have been" puncher, like Ibeabuchi.

I can see arguing that Tommy's right-hand is a better single punch than any single punch of Monzon's but you're going to bring up Briscoe as a detraction? For real? A guy who only was KO'd once in 96 Pro fights, and that was by a guy who KO'd 42 of 63 of HIS opponents who also lost to Monzon?

Keep in-mind in Monzon you're talking about a guy who has stopped more than one Hall of Famer, and who has defeated the defeators of more than one Hall of Famer. He wasn't pretty either, nor very technical, he beat them with aggression and power.
 
Hagler or Robinson beats Jones in the finals. I think Robinson would beat Hagler, but it would be awfully close.
 
Monzon was the perfect foil to any style. A near unbeatable middleweight. Certainly nobody in this tournament beats him.

It would have taken a Michael Spinks to do that.
 
King Kabuki said:
Gah, Mugabi was brought up from JMW to fight Hagler and had a total of exactly 3 fights as a MW once it happened. He never KO'd anyone really noteworthy and was stopped in 3 immediately after fighting Hagler.

John is at-best a "what would have been" puncher, like Ibeabuchi.

I can see arguing that Tommy's right-hand is a better single punch than any single punch of Monzon's but you're going to bring up Briscoe as a detraction? For real? A guy who only was KO'd once in 96 Pro fights, and that was by a guy who KO'd 42 of 63 of HIS opponents who also lost to Monzon?

Keep in-mind in Monzon you're talking about a guy who has stopped more than one Hall of Famer, and who has defeated the defeators of more than one Hall of Famer. He wasn't pretty either, nor very technical, he beat them with aggression and power.
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Mugabi wasn't great, but his punching power was.

There's no folly in saying Monzon wouldn't stop Hagler and using Briscoe as an example. Hell you can use Valdez as an example as well. Haglar stopped 52 of his 62 opponents and was Never stopped or even seemingly hurt in any of his 67 fights. In the rugged and ready field, Hagler is king. It's no stretch to say Hagler would have been the greatest fighter Monzon would have ever faced and vice versa. I stand by my "Monzon By Ud aside from a cuts stoppage".

It always baffled me to think of what Monzon himself "could" have been. That is if he wasn't the supreme head case he was. I don't think there will ever be another champion who has a 5 pack a day cigerette habit.
 
King Kabuki said:
Gah, Mugabi was brought up from JMW to fight Hagler and had a total of exactly 3 fights as a MW once it happened. He never KO'd anyone really noteworthy and was stopped in 3 immediately after fighting Hagler.

John is at-best a "what would have been" puncher, like Ibeabuchi.

I can see arguing that Tommy's right-hand is a better single punch than any single punch of Monzon's but you're going to bring up Briscoe as a detraction? For real? A guy who only was KO'd once in 96 Pro fights, and that was by a guy who KO'd 42 of 63 of HIS opponents who also lost to Monzon?

Keep in-mind in Monzon you're talking about a guy who has stopped more than one Hall of Famer, and who has defeated the defeators of more than one Hall of Famer. He wasn't pretty either, nor very technical, he beat them with aggression and power.
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Well said KK...

One question though for this tournament........12 or 15 rounds ?

If it's 12 I think Roy Jones runs the table.

If it goes into the championship rounds I gotta lean real heavily towards Monzon. If you watch Monzon's fights on tape you'll notice one thing that stands out.......he gets stronger as the fight wears on and never ever shows signs of fatigue.....and thats a scarey thing when you're sucking for air and the guy across the ring is smiling and checking out the broads in the crowd between rounds......
 
Tam-Tam said:
Monzon was the perfect foil to any style. A near unbeatable middleweight. Certainly nobody in this tournament beats him.

It would have taken a Michael Spinks to do that.
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I was going to write this until I read it.
 
Mugabi wasn't great, but his punching power was.
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I disagree, his punching power did dick for him on the World Level.

There's no folly in saying Monzon wouldn't stop Hagler and using Briscoe as an example. Hell you can use Valdez as an example as well. Haglar stopped 52 of his 62 opponents and was Never stopped or even seemingly hurt in any of his 67 fights. In the rugged and ready field, Hagler is king. It's no stretch to say Hagler would have been the greatest fighter Monzon would have ever faced and vice versa. I stand by my "Monzon By Ud aside from a cuts stoppage".
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I can see an argument for Monzon's inability to KO Hagler, but only on Hagler's standing up to damage, not Monzon's inability to stop a guy who was KO'd once in 96 fights, who faced big punchers himself. That borders on the crazy.

Hagler was hurt indeed against Hearns AND Mugabi (which is Mugabi's GREATEST achievement, stunning Hagler but ultimately being stopped). Unfortunately for Mahvin in this fantasy match-up, Monzon didn't have any of the detractions Hearns and Mugabi both had. He was a SOLID 15 round Fighter in his day, and he was a solid MW during his tenure there.
 
Monzon smoked 5 packs a day? I just can't believe that. Maybe a pack or two at the most, but 5? Shit I don't know anybody that smokes that much.
 
King Kabuki said:
I disagree, his punching power did dick for him on the World Level.



I can see an argument for Monzon's inability to KO Hagler, but only on Hagler's standing up to damage, not Monzon's inability to stop a guy who was KO'd once in 96 fights, who faced big punchers himself. That borders on the crazy.
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He didn't stop Rocky Valdez either, if that's a better comparison. It's still saying a great deal that Monzon would pummel Hagler , just not stop him. Monzon's gas tank was sureal in every sense.
 
So he didn't stop the last guy he ever faced...who was also KO'd only once in 73 Pro Fights, and that one KO was in like his 6th bout and he had only seen the canvas again once in 15 years to follow.

Hmm.
 
King Kabuki said:
So he didn't stop the last guy he ever faced...who was also KO'd only once in 73 Pro Fights, and that one KO was in like his 6th bout and he had only seen the canvas again once in 15 years to follow.

Hmm.
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But he could KO Marvin Hagler who had never been KO'ed in 14 years and had only been dropped once?
 
a kayo in a hagler-monzon fight would be unlikely IMO. 1/10ish.
 
MMAmouse said:
But he could KO Marvin Hagler who had never been KO'ed in 14 years and had only been dropped once?
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Could? Sure. Would? Different story. Not once in this thread did I even insinuate it was imminent, rather that if there was a Middleweight capable, it was Monzon.

And for the last time Hagler's ruggedness isn't in-question. Rather the insunation Monzon was UNABLE to KO tough Fighters because he didn't KO two guys who had only been KO'd twice collectively in their careers, both of whom he fought pretty late in his career.
 
NO ONE CAN MOVE LIKE SUGAR RAY ROBINSON! No one!!!
 
Gramps said:
NO ONE CAN MOVE LIKE SUGAR RAY ROBINSON! No one!!!
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Better tell that to Basilio......he owned him over a two fight series....and Carmen wasn't exactly known for his footwork.....
 
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