Who is the smallest fighter that you think could beat a UFC heavyweight?

Obviously the top welterweights could embarass the worst heavyweights. Guys competing at 170 are still likely to walk around at 190-200 outside of a weight cut, and those are physical specimens. Plus, anyone who knows anything about wrestling knows that skill eclipses size and strength.
 
pankrat said:
It seems you are talking about amateurs in a training room who happen to be fat, not about pro HWs who actually made it to the UFC which is the premise of the thread.
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What? The example I gave was two UFC guys, Hughes beating the snot out of UFC champ Timmy everyday in practice. Hughes by today's standards is a lightweight. Hughes bullied Tim. Heavyweights stink and it is the exception not to stink. Plenty of training room stories of lesser heavyweights getting handled in the training room. When I look at the UFC roster of heavyweights I don't see much going on with respect to skill. My only point is that if the heavyweight in question is elite in at least one art (and if that art is grappling then bonus points) then the smaller fighter is in deep trouble.
 
NoStoneUnturned said:
What? The example I gave was two UFC guys, Hughes beating the snot out of UFC champ Timmy everyday in practice. Hughes by today's standards is a lightweight. Hughes bullied Tim. Heavyweights stink and it is the exception not to stink. Plenty of training room stories of lesser heavyweights getting handled in the training room. When I look at the UFC roster of heavyweights I don't see much going on with respect to skill. My only point is that if the heavyweight in question is elite in at least one art (and if that art is grappling then bonus points) then the smaller fighter is in deep trouble.
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I didnt think you were trying to use alleged training room stories as a valid reference, honestly.

We have seen what happens in actual fights not in sparring sessions where guys dont punch/pound with full force.

If we don't have more examples of size missmatches like those is because pro fighters know whats what and sanctioning bodies would stop such missmatches from happenening. Why do you think is that?

Randy Couture was only a moderate favourite going up vs Sylvia. Olympic wrestling alternate Couture who weighted 222lbs in great enhanced shape and still failed several takedowns vs an allegedly injured Sylvia...
And you try to present that Hughes would be clear favourite vs the same opponent? Based on training room stories? wtf
Do you honestly believe odds-makers would support that?

NoStoneUnturned said:
My only point is that if the heavyweight in question is elite in at least one art (and if that art is grappling then bonus points) then the smaller fighter is in deep trouble.
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Not really. Definitely not true for a striker and this was already settled in the 90s.

A smaller elite fighter would have a much harder time dealing with a HW with mediocre all-around skills than with an elite kickboxer/boxer who doesnt have the basic grappling understanding assumed in a UFC HW.

That's why freakshows in Japan matched up their Minowamans or Genki Sudos with HWs who could be legitimate strikers but clueless in the grappling art.

You could find rare cases like that among WWs or even LWs but it would be in any case exceptional. Not the norm you are trying to present. Most of the times, they would get hurt/smothered by the trained 40-60lbs bigger man.
 
NoStoneUnturned said:
What? The example I gave was two UFC guys, Hughes beating the snot out of UFC champ Timmy everyday in practice. Hughes by today's standards is a lightweight. Hughes bullied Tim. Heavyweights stink and it is the exception not to stink. Plenty of training room stories of lesser heavyweights getting handled in the training room. When I look at the UFC roster of heavyweights I don't see much going on with respect to skill. My only point is that if the heavyweight in question is elite in at least one art (and if that art is grappling then bonus points) then the smaller fighter is in deep trouble.
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Training stories from Timmys 1st week of training?
 
NoStoneUnturned said:
What? The example I gave was two UFC guys, Hughes beating the snot out of UFC champ Timmy everyday in practice. Hughes by today's standards is a lightweight. Hughes bullied Tim. Heavyweights stink and it is the exception not to stink. Plenty of training room stories of lesser heavyweights getting handled in the training room. When I look at the UFC roster of heavyweights I don't see much going on with respect to skill. My only point is that if the heavyweight in question is elite in at least one art (and if that art is grappling then bonus points) then the smaller fighter is in deep trouble.
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Lol Hughes certainly wouldn't beat up world champion version of Tim Sylvia. If he was doing that he could have challenged for the heavyweight title and made a lot more money.
 
VinceArch said:
Nah, it's been the same guy and I don't think about gorillas fighting bears lol. It isn't naïve to think a Olympic gold wrestler could beat some lower end HW's. Sorry not sorry.
<Moves>
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Nah, we all think you’re a rah-tard.
 
VinceArch said:
You don't think the same can be done? You should take up online betting on the regionals.
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It’s 2 different friggin sports!
It’s the same conversation as boxing vs MMA.

After reading this thread I am convinced you do not follow MMA.
 
Anyway, we actually have plenty of examples in boxing, so we can discuss if, and why is MMA different here (probably is, due to grappling).


Dude like James Toney who was essentially 5'9'' LW/WW in MMA terms, who bloated himself all the way up to HW and had some legitimate success against guys who were huge compared to him.

ibf-and-lineal-middleweight-title-fight-james-toney-v-mike-mccallum.jpg
 
NoStoneUnturned said:
Hughes bullied Tim
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<JagsKiddingMe>

I think this thread is filled with very short people really wanting to believe that a very smol man can beat very big men. Yes, of course, Hughes bullied Tim. Sure, dude. The athletic comisions came out with these bullshit divisions because they were actually just trying to prevent Matt Hughes from beating up Arlovski and Mir too!!! Not just poor old Timmeh!!!

Heavyweights like Blagoy Ivanov should be very thankful to them. Otherwise we would have little midgets like Cejudo beating them up every event!!!

<{Heymansnicker}>
 
I think a really skilled grappler like Khabib or Islam could beat some of the heavyweights who have very poor skill in grappling. I remember in those Gilroy vs Dagestan videos from AKA there was some kid who was a high school wrestler and he was easily outwrestling Tai Tuivasa but the same kid was getting dominated by Khabib when they were rolling together. It's tough to beat a guy who is bigger than you and also is a skilled grappler though. I think some of the more dangerous strikers at lightweight like Fiziev or Jalin Turner could probably knock out some low level hws with bad fight iqs that would be dumb enough to just brawl and not try to intelligently use their size also
 
Karelinator said:
Anyway, we actually have plenty of examples in boxing, so we can discuss if, and why is MMA different here (probably is, due to grappling).


Dude like James Toney who was essentially 5'9'' LW/WW in MMA terms, who bloated himself all the way up to HW and had some legitimate success against guys who were huge compared to him.

ibf-and-lineal-middleweight-title-fight-james-toney-v-mike-mccallum.jpg
Click to expand...

MMA is very different not just for the grappling. The more restrictions you put in a fight the more you minimize the physicality gap.

Raw physicality goes a long way in MMA. It's harder to teach how the bigger man can take advantage of size/power/strenght when he can't get a hold, nor hit with anything but a well padded pair of gloves.

MMA allows for less refined techniques while much more conclusive. The refinement of the boxing science is actually an attempt to go away the most from that.

Still, Toney himself was an exception to the rule in boxing, a sport with 17 different weightclasses and where it was considered a feat that Usyk challenged the top HWs, being himself a fit 220lber and extremely talented at that.
 
Greg House said:
<JagsKiddingMe>

I think this thread is filled with very short people really wanting to believe that a very smol man can beat very big men. Yes, of course, Hughes bullied Tim. Sure, dude. The athletic comisions came out with these bullshit divisions because they were actually just trying to prevent Matt Hughes from beating up Arlovski and Mir too!!! Not just poor old Timmeh!!!

Heavyweights like Blagoy Ivanov should be very thankful to them. Otherwise we would have little midgets like Cejudo beating them up every event!!!
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I'm not following. It was well known Hughes bullied big Tim in the gym, are you saying he didn't?
I think there is a lot fat dudes in this thread who don't like it their fat lol.

My first post in this thread was this, context matters:

Any heavyweight who lacks at least one elite martial art would be in trouble against many lightweights and welterweights. A wrestler like DC is going to absolutely destroy smaller guys. Fedor's sambo would break those same guys. Fighter like Werdum could easily use his size and BJJ to manhandle smaller fighters. Jones could pick a half dozen ways to smack little dudes from one side of the gym to the other. However, if the heavyweight is one of these I'm just sort of ok at everything, middling power, and suspect cardio heavyweights then said heavyweight is going to get handled by elite smaller guys. End of story.
 
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pankrat said:
I didnt think you were trying to use alleged training room stories as a valid reference, honestly.

We have seen what happens in actual fights not in sparring sessions where guys dont punch/pound with full force.

If we don't have more examples of size missmatches like those is because pro fighters know whats what and sanctioning bodies would stop such missmatches from happenening. Why do you think is that?

Randy Couture was only a moderate favourite going up vs Sylvia. Olympic wrestling alternate Couture who weighted 222lbs in great enhanced shape and still failed several takedowns vs an allegedly injured Sylvia...
And you try to present that Hughes would be clear favourite vs the same opponent? Based on training room stories? wtf
Do you honestly believe odds-makers would support that?



Not really. Definitely not true for a striker and this was already settled in the 90s.

A smaller elite fighter would have a much harder time dealing with a HW with mediocre all-around skills than with an elite kickboxer/boxer who doesnt have the basic grappling understanding assumed in a UFC HW.

That's why freakshows in Japan matched up their Minowamans or Genki Sudos with HWs who could be legitimate strikers but clueless in the grappling art.

You could find rare cases like that among WWs or even LWs but it would be in any case exceptional. Not the norm you are trying to present. Most of the times, they would get hurt/smothered by the trained 40-60lbs bigger man.
Click to expand...

I absolutely believe this. Most big dudes stink at MMA, generally have bad cardio, and generally don't like to grapple. Remember I'm referencing heavyweights who aren't at the top of the heap. My first post was very clear in that regard.
 
pankrat said:
Excluding noobs and trolls, yeah its one of the most embarrassing takes I've seen here.
I hope it doesnt affect your sleep. Just get a grip mate it's about time, or change hobbies.
You are kinda funny though :)
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I get bad episodes of insomnia from time to time.
 
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