Who is the Greatest Champ Champ in MMA History Across All Orgs ?

[Sweater of AV]

The GOAT.

 

[Mr. Shickadance]

BJ Penn is the most overrated figher ever considered a "GOAT". He had a few vintage performances that are deserving of respect (Sherk, Gomi, Hughes 1, his "loss" to GSP which may have actually been a win), but after 2004 he practically alternate wins/losses for the rest of his career. The caliber of guys he was beating were either journeymen/gatekeepers (Sanchez, Stevenson Florian) or wayyyyyyyy past their primes (Hughes 2 win, Pulver, Renzo).
Was he a good fighter? Yes. A great fighter? Probably. Was he a super effective, GOAT candidate? No.
Penn nuthuggers cling to this idea that he was something special, just because he had some great highlights, and insane dexterity. The truth is, even if you don't count his sad losing streak at the end, he still would have wound up 16-7.
Those are the facts.

That’s not the question though right? And what BJ did is arguably the greatest champ champ . He beat the long reigning legit #1 WW and was demonstrably the greatest lightweight at the time.
The closest to ever accomplish what BJ did is Volk.

 

[JKS]

Statistically you can say Nunes as I think she's the only one that has actually defended her belts. 6x at BW, 2x at FW

 

[JKS]

That’s not the question though right? And what BJ did is arguably the greatest champ champ . He beat the long reigning legit #1 WW and was demonstrably the greatest lightweight at the time.
The closest to ever accomplish what BJ did is Volk.

With that said, you can't really put him over GSP in that aspect. GSP also beat Hughes for the title and then beat him again, he defended it 9 times and then went up to MW and won the title.

 

[liner]

Who bj penn beat and their standing in the world at the time makes him my pick. Beat the #1 lw in gomi. Beat the #1 ww in Hughes. should have been fighting 145 if that had been a division. Penn was amazing to watch during this time

 

[Barteh]

There's one thing the three consensus GOATs have in common and that's that they'd never call themselves the GOAT.

 

[Mr. Shickadance]

With that said, you can't really put him over GSP in that aspect. GSP also beat Hughes for the title and then beat him again, he defended it 9 times and then went up to MW and won the title.

Yeah but Michael bisping was not the
Best middleweight in the world

 

[JKS]

Yeah but Michael bisping was not the
Best middleweight in the world

Neither was Joe Stevenson.

Bisping gets highly underrated on here. At the point of him winning the title he was coming of wins over Anderson and KO'd Rockhold, who at that point was the best MW in the world. That win over Bisping is very good for GSP. Bisping was at the highest point in his career.

 

[Elvis.]

 

[Mr. Shickadance]

Neither was Joe Stevenson.

Bisping gets highly underrated on here. At the point of him winning the title he was coming of wins over Anderson and KO'd Rockhold, who at that point was the best MW in the world. That win over Bisping is very good for GSP. Bisping was at the highest point in his career.

I’m not dissing bisping but he wasn’t the best and avoided the top middleweights .
And I don’t know why your mentioning joe Stevenson, what bj had to do to be the best LW in the world was beat the other considered best lightweights and he did, and when he beat Hughes he was unquestionably #1 in the world . Bisping was not

 

[Lionheart7167]

That’s not the question though right? And what BJ did is arguably the greatest champ champ . He beat the long reigning legit #1 WW and was demonstrably the greatest lightweight at the time.
The closest to ever accomplish what BJ did is Volk.

Yes, he beat the long reigning legit #1 WW but I don't think he's even in the top 3 LW of all time. I put Bendo, Edgar, Khabib, Friere, and Islam up there over BJ. You're probably asking why? Because at LW, Penn's best wins were against Sherk and Gomi. Definitely two top guys, but who else did he really beat in that division that were killers? An over the hill Pulver? An unseasoned Serra?
People overemphasize what Penn did in that weight class. I'm sorry. Smashing Caol Uno, and people like Florian, Diego and Stevenson, doesn't really mean much to me, even if they were for the title.
Old school dudes love Penn the same way the Irish love Conor. Rose tinted glasses.

 

[Mr. Shickadance]

Yes, he beat the long reigning legit #1 WW but I don't think he's even in the top 3 LW of all time. I put Bendo, Edgar, Khabib, Friere, and Islam up there over BJ. You're probably asking why? Because at LW, Penn's best wins were against Sherk and Gomi. Definitely two top guys, but who else did he really beat in that division that were killers? An over the hill Pulver? An unseasoned Serra?
People overemphasize what Penn did in that weight class. I'm sorry. Smashing Caol Uno, and people like Florian, Diego and Stevenson, doesn't really mean much to me, even if they were for the title.

Well he was number one lightweight in the world and beat the the best lightweights at the time to be it no speculation, then beat the best WW in the world no speculation. That’s the most impressive double champ, everyone else was gifted or the champ they fought was clearly not the best in the division.
GSP has a better argument for all around GOAT by far, and there are lightweights with better legacy at LW but what BJ did to get double champ status against who he did it against is the moser impressive double champ.

 

[Westbrick]

Patrico Freire

 

[mjfan23]

I was going to say jones but he ducked Francis like the greatest duck we have ever seen. He didn’t even beat the champ for the belt, he fought a guy the champ had already beat.

I was going to naturally look at the goat list and see GSP up there too and pick him but then you realize he picked and timed his opponent and avoided the Silva fight.

Really hard to pick the best champ champ maybe Randy or Nunes? But I can find many things to be dismissive about them too.

 

[Egészségére!]

DC has some pretty impressive title defenses at both weight classes with stoppages over Volcon, Stipe, Lewis & Rumble x2

 

[Local Plata]

BJ Penn was probably the only one to be considered the best at each weight class when he won.

 

[JKS]

I’m not dissing bisping but he wasn’t the best and avoided the top middleweights .
And I don’t know why your mentioning joe Stevenson, what bj had to do to be the best LW in the world was beat the other considered best lightweights and he did, and when he beat Hughes he was unquestionably #1 in the world . Bisping was not

I'll tell you why I mentioned Stevenson, for the reason you mentioned Bisping. They both beat Hughes for the WW title so that evens out. So we look at the other title win in the other division they were double champ in. And if we're comparing their champ champ status, I certainly think Bisping is a better win for a title than Stevenson.

 

[mma fighter]

You answered your own question. Randy should be at the top. Spanked Tito, beat chuck, and legit came back and said "fuck you" to Timmy and took his belt. That is just a few highlights.

 

[Mr. Shickadance]

I'll tell you why I mentioned Stevenson, for the reason you mentioned Bisping. They both beat Hughes for the WW title so that evens out. So we look at the other title win in the other division they were double champ in. And if we're comparing their champ champ status, I certainly think Bisping is a better win for a title than Stevenson.

I think you’re missing the point of the thread.
The competition they had to beat to get champ champ status is widely different. Bisping wasn’t number one and there were multiple people in the division he was ducking.
Matt Hughes was not.
Now maybe Joe was BJ’s title fight to gain the lightweight strap , but that wasn’t BJ’fault Sherk failed a drug test. But either way he still beat him in the very next fight and didn’t cherry pick title fights or avoid the top contenders in the division.

 

[JKS]

I think you’re missing the point of the thread.
The competition they had to beat to get champ champ status is widely different. Bisping wasn’t number one and there were multiple people in the division he was ducking.
Matt Hughes was not.
Now maybe Joe was BJ’s title fight to gain the lightweight strap , but that wasn’t BJ’fault Sherk failed a drug test. But either way he still beat him in the very next fight and didn’t cherry pick title fights or avoid the top contenders in the division.

I think I got the point of the thread, it's quite straight forward. The OP asked who's the best champ champ, that's the only criteria. Not who they had to beat to get champ champ status or anything. And I think it's pretty clear GSP was the better champ champ.

With that said, BJ didnt beat Hughes to gain champ champ status, that was his first title win in the UFC. The LW belt he beat Stevenson for was the champ champ status for Penn. So based on what you're saying, they both beat Hughes who was a clear #1 in the world to get their first belt. But for the second, Bisping is certainly a better win than Stevenson. Now that's based on your criteria.