Who has the better resume: Anthony Pettis or Shogun Rua?

I don't know anyone who thought Wonderboy beat Woodley

According to MMADecisions, 63.5% of voters believe Wonderboy should have gotten the win against Woodley at UFC 209, compared to 19.5% in favor of a draw and just 17% for Woodley. A plurality of media members also scored the fight for Wonderboy.

Although I agree that Shogun vs. Machida was a bigger robbery. It's the biggest title fight robbery imo next to Condit vs. Lawler.
 
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"Skinny Reem" beat Sergei Kharitonov in his next fight after losing to Shogun.

"Skinny Reem" submitted Vitor Belfort. The only other person who submitted Vitor in over 40 fights is prime Jon Jones.

"Skinny Reem" also submitted Igor Vovchanchyn and Roman Zentsov.

Welcome to sherdog where beating washed up Wonderboy, Geof Neal and Vicente Luque is better than beating prime Rampage, prime Machida, prime Lil Nog, Prime Arona and "Skinny Reem"

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This thread and anyone in it saying Pettis had a better or more legendary career and Shogun are ridiculous

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Get your nostalgia goggles off ffs.
Roman Bumzoff aint shit in comparison what I named… most hardcores wouldn't even take that name drop seriously. “But but he KO’d Gil and Pedro…” nah dude…
But yeah nostalgia goggles are strong. There are people who still argue Shogun is a better and greater fighter than Jon Jones even.
 
Get your nostalgia goggles off ffs.
Roman Bumzoff aint shit in comparison what I named… most hardcores wouldn't even take that name drop seriously. “But but he KO’d Gil and Pedro…” nah dude…
But yeah nostalgia goggles are strong. There are people who still argue Shogun is a better and greater fighter than Jon Jones even.
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Sounds like a pretty random comparison but hear me out:

-Both guys were the final superstars of their merging promotions (WEC and Pride)

-In the their short but legendary runs in this promotion they were known for their finishing ability

-Once they merge into the UFC they quickly become champion

-Their championship reigns are prominent but short-lived

-After they lose the championship they go on to bat .500 against elite fighters in the UFC

-End up fighting far too long for their own good

Pretty similar career arcs if you ask me. And they both have brothers who became prominent fighters.

Who did it better?
In the ring Shogun, in the cage Pettis.
 
Jones gets excluded for thoroughly discussed reasons and a well-beaten dead horse.
Fedor also benefitted from a weak division, thus he's considered the GOAT heavyweight, not fighter.

More money doesn't mean better. It means more marketable. People will pay more to watch bigger guys because it's more of a spectacle.

We arent talking about a number of reasons but one in particular, do not dodge.
Would Jones get exclused because his opponents are not that good skill for skill as in lighter divisions? Yes or no

Does Fedor gets surpassed by plenty of lighter fighters for the same reason?

As predicted, not even yourself really follow up your point.

More money means more and better athletes get involved professionally, hence a more competitive circuit. For the size differential, there are already weightclasses
 
Shogun by a landslide.

Shoguns best wins: Machida 2x, Lil Nog, Overeem 2x, Rampage, Arona, Liddell, Vera, Forrest.

Pettis best wins:

Benson, Cerrone, washed up Wonderboy, young Oliveira who was getting finished a lot then.

Shogun achievements: Pride MWGP champion + UFC LHW Champion

Pettis achievements: WEC Champion + UFC LW champion

Pettis had a decent career but anyone picking him is a 🤡

Shogun is a much more legendary fighter.
I just love how the Wonderboy Pettis beat is "washed up Wonderboy", but the Forest that shogun beat is just "Forrest"

So much blatant misrepresentation of facts ITT to prop up/shut down an old WEC/Pride legend. This thread is giving me old sherdog vibes and I absolutely fucking love it.
 
We arent talking about a number of reasons but one in particular, do not dodge.
Would Jones get exclused because his opponents are not that good skill for skill as in lighter divisions? Yes or no

Does Fedor gets surpassed by plenty of lighter fighters for the same reason?

As predicted, not even yourself really follow up your point.

More money means more and better athletes get involved professionally, hence a more competitive circuit. For the size differential, there are already weightclasses
Yes. Jones and Fedor are lower ranked than someone like GSP for me because of the quality of competition.

We haven't seen better athletes transition to the heavier weightclasses. The quality is still fairly low, outside of a couple outliers.
 
I'm not a fan of either. Rua is widely considered a legend due to one tournament and a few fights afterwards.

Pettis is widely known for the showtime kick then disappointing his fans after becoming champ.
 
Yes. Jones and Fedor are lower ranked than someone like GSP for me because of the quality of competition.

We haven't seen better athletes transition to the heavier weightclasses. The quality is still fairly low, outside of a couple outliers.

Lol competition like Den Ardy, Jake Shields, Carlos Conduit and Josh Koscheck

Fedor and Jones never fought such beasts

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I think the Machida, Rampage and Arona wins are better than any wins on Pettis' resume.
yep and he KOed Machida at Machida's best... that was something special and im a machida fanboy

loved watching pettis in his prime though
 
Yes. Jones and Fedor are lower ranked than someone like GSP for me because of the quality of competition.

We haven't seen better athletes transition to the heavier weightclasses. The quality is still fairly low, outside of a couple outliers.

If you wanted to stand your ground you would bring plenty of lighter fighters with better wins skill for skill than Fedor/Jones. not calling GSP.
Be real mate
 
If you wanted to stand your ground you would bring plenty of lighter fighters with better wins skill for skill than Fedor/Jones. not calling GSP.
Be real mate

I think Fedor is a top 10 GOAT but I'm going to play devil's advocate here. If we're talking purely skill for skill there's no comparison between Fedor's level of competition and even a non-champion like Dustin Poirier. This becomes pretty apparent when we go down Fedor's significant wins.

Big Nog: Had decent-ish boxing and mediocre wrestling; mostly relied on being great off his back. Yet still somehow the second greatest HW at the time. At lightweight he'd have a middle-of-the-pack skillset, akin to Oliveira if Oliveira didn't have dangerous standup.

Cro Cop: A kickboxer with decent takedown defense (I say decent because it was pretty good in the ring but not so good in the cage). Would get eaten alive by the grapplers at LW. He would be most similar to Edson Barboza, who also struggled with pressure.

Andrei Arlovski: One of the few fighters Fedor fought who was dangerous anywhere the fight went.

Ricardo Arona: Arona is like Jose Aldo if Jose Aldo had really shitty boxing.

Kevin Randleman: His LW equivalent would be Melvin Guillard—wrestling background, super athletic, powerful, but also lacks much development at all both on the feet and on the ground (particularly regarding submissions).

Mark Hunt: There is no one like Hunto at LW, because all of Hunt's strengths have to do with him being a 280 lb Samoan. Regardless, no one with the submission defense of Mark Hunt would ever make it in the UFC at LW. Dude was getting submitted by middleweights.

Tim Sylvia: Infamously, most of Sylvia's advantages have to do with him being fucking huge rather than actual appreciable athleticism/skill. It is hard to imagine someone with the skills of Sylvia becoming champion at any division other than heavyweight. And even then he's probably still more well-rounded than Randleman or Mark Hunt.

Mark Coleman: Mark Coleman's skillset is that he can wrestle at a high level for one or two rounds before gassing out. That's pretty much it.

Pedro Rizzo: Like Arlovski, dangerous everywhere except the version Fedor fought was shot.

Heath Herring: More well-rounded than a lot of these dudes; would probably still be a middle of the road lightweight like Jim Miller or something.

Gary Goodridge: Was never all that good anywhere; developed decent striking later in his career?

Semmy Schilt: Fedor's win over Schilt is like if Giorgio Petrosyan suddenly decided to enter the cage with Islam Makhachev. Like it wouldn't tell us anything that we didn't know.

Renato Sobral: Actually skilled; but very one-dimensional and of course undersized. At LW he'd be an even less well-rounded version of Renato Moicano.

Jeff Monson: Also far too one-dimensional to get anywhere at LW.

Satoshi Ishii: Karo Parisyan with worse standup.

Matt Lindland: Pretty good on the ground but hardly should be a commendable win for Fedor considering that he's a bona fide middleweight.

Skill for skill only a couple of these guys have the well-rounded skillsets of LWs. Most of them are only really skilled at one thing or another, and would get horribly exposed at lightweight. The reason why Fedor is a GOAT regardless is because he's in a division where just having power or a lucky punch can trump all your skill advantage and yet he still went 28 wins in a row. And relative to their division, a lot of these guys are still great wins. Not really comparable to LW skillsets though.
 
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I think Shogun, Arona (especially this one) and Wanderlei, have been living too long from those Pride days when the rules were very different and obscure etc. Honestly, I give much credit to modern-era UFC fighters.
 
If you wanted to stand your ground you would bring plenty of lighter fighters with better wins skill for skill than Fedor/Jones. not calling GSP.
Be real mate
I was trying to be respectful of a legend of the sport. I think most of the lightweights and welterweights are more talented than Fedor or Jones. The skill gap just isn't as large.
 
Obviously Pettis, he has his own box of cereal FFS!
 
I was trying to be respectful of a legend of the sport. I think most of the lightweights and welterweights are more talented than Fedor or Jones. The skill gap just isn't as large.

I think Fedor is a top 10 GOAT but I'm going to play devil's advocate here. If we're talking purely skill for skill there's no comparison between Fedor's level of competition and even a non-champion like Dustin Poirier. This becomes pretty apparent when we go down Fedor's significant wins.

Big Nog: Had decent-ish boxing and mediocre wrestling; mostly relied on being great off his back. Yet still somehow the second greatest HW at the time. At lightweight he'd have a middle-of-the-pack skillset, akin to Oliveira if Oliveira didn't have dangerous standup.

Cro Cop: A kickboxer with decent takedown defense (I say decent because it was pretty good in the ring but not so good in the cage). Would get eaten alive by the grapplers at LW. He would be most similar to Edson Barboza, who also struggled with pressure.

Andrei Arlovski: One of the few fighters Fedor fought who was dangerous anywhere the fight went.

Ricardo Arona: Arona is like Jose Aldo if Jose Aldo had really shitty boxing.

Kevin Randleman: His LW equivalent would be Melvin Guillard—wrestling background, super athletic, powerful, but also lacks much development at all both on the feet and on the ground (particularly regarding submissions).

Mark Hunt: There is no one like Hunto at LW, because all of Hunt's strengths have to do with him being a 280 lb Samoan. Regardless, no one with the submission defense of Mark Hunt would ever make it in the UFC at LW. Dude was getting submitted by middleweights.

Tim Sylvia: Infamously, most of Sylvia's advantages have to do with him being fucking huge rather than actual appreciable athleticism/skill. It is hard to imagine someone with the skills of Sylvia becoming champion at any division other than heavyweight. And even then he's probably still more well-rounded than Randleman or Mark Hunt.

Mark Coleman: Mark Coleman's skillset is that he can wrestle at a high level for one or two rounds before gassing out. That's pretty much it.

Pedro Rizzo: Like Arlovski, dangerous everywhere except the version Fedor fought was shot.

Heath Herring: More well-rounded than a lot of these dudes; would probably still be a middle of the road lightweight like Jim Miller or something.

Gary Goodridge: Was never all that good anywhere; developed decent striking later in his career?

Semmy Schilt: Fedor's win over Schilt is like if Giorgio Petrosyan suddenly decided to enter the cage with Islam Makhachev. Like it wouldn't tell us anything that we didn't know.

Renato Sobral: Actually skilled; but very one-dimensional and of course undersized. At LW he'd be an even less well-rounded version of Renato Moicano.

Jeff Monson: Also far too one-dimensional to get anywhere at LW.

Satoshi Ishii: Karo Parisyan with worse standup.

Matt Lindland: Pretty good on the ground but hardly should be a commendable win for Fedor considering that he's a bona fide middleweight.

Skill for skill only a couple of these guys have the well-rounded skillsets of LWs. Most of them are only really skilled at one thing or another, and would get horribly exposed at lightweight. The reason why Fedor is a GOAT regardless is because he's in a division where just having power or a lucky punch can trump all your skill advantage and yet he still went 28 wins in a row. And relative to their division, a lot of these guys are still great wins. Not really comparable to LW skillsets though.

It's evident that smaller athletes will be more skilled, as you would found countless small and average sized men who are more skilled with a basketball than big men in NBA.
It's also an empty point. And retarded in a sport already separated by weight classes.
It would lead you to say that unranked FLWs, BWs or FWs are better than Fedor or Jones which is so obviously retarded that not even the guy who made the point really wants to follow it up so he uses GSP as example instead.

BTW the description you made of Arona, Big Nog or Randleman, regardless of how skilled they were, is all over the place
 
I think Fedor is a top 10 GOAT but I'm going to play devil's advocate here. If we're talking purely skill for skill there's no comparison between Fedor's level of competition and even a non-champion like Dustin Poirier. This becomes pretty apparent when we go down Fedor's significant wins.

Big Nog: Had decent-ish boxing and mediocre wrestling; mostly relied on being great off his back. Yet still somehow the second greatest HW at the time. At lightweight he'd have a middle-of-the-pack skillset, akin to Oliveira if Oliveira didn't have dangerous standup.

Cro Cop: A kickboxer with decent takedown defense (I say decent because it was pretty good in the ring but not so good in the cage). Would get eaten alive by the grapplers at LW. He would be most similar to Edson Barboza, who also struggled with pressure.

Andrei Arlovski: One of the few fighters Fedor fought who was dangerous anywhere the fight went.

Ricardo Arona: Arona is like Jose Aldo if Jose Aldo had really shitty boxing.

Kevin Randleman: His LW equivalent would be Melvin Guillard—wrestling background, super athletic, powerful, but also lacks much development at all both on the feet and on the ground (particularly regarding submissions).

Mark Hunt: There is no one like Hunto at LW, because all of Hunt's strengths have to do with him being a 280 lb Samoan. Regardless, no one with the submission defense of Mark Hunt would ever make it in the UFC at LW. Dude was getting submitted by middleweights.

Tim Sylvia: Infamously, most of Sylvia's advantages have to do with him being fucking huge rather than actual appreciable athleticism/skill. It is hard to imagine someone with the skills of Sylvia becoming champion at any division other than heavyweight. And even then he's probably still more well-rounded than Randleman or Mark Hunt.

Mark Coleman: Mark Coleman's skillset is that he can wrestle at a high level for one or two rounds before gassing out. That's pretty much it.

Pedro Rizzo: Like Arlovski, dangerous everywhere except the version Fedor fought was shot.

Heath Herring: More well-rounded than a lot of these dudes; would probably still be a middle of the road lightweight like Jim Miller or something.

Gary Goodridge: Was never all that good anywhere; developed decent striking later in his career?

Semmy Schilt: Fedor's win over Schilt is like if Giorgio Petrosyan suddenly decided to enter the cage with Islam Makhachev. Like it wouldn't tell us anything that we didn't know.

Renato Sobral: Actually skilled; but very one-dimensional and of course undersized. At LW he'd be an even less well-rounded version of Renato Moicano.

Jeff Monson: Also far too one-dimensional to get anywhere at LW.

Satoshi Ishii: Karo Parisyan with worse standup.

Matt Lindland: Pretty good on the ground but hardly should be a commendable win for Fedor considering that he's a bona fide middleweight.

Skill for skill only a couple of these guys have the well-rounded skillsets of LWs. Most of them are only really skilled at one thing or another, and would get horribly exposed at lightweight. The reason why Fedor is a GOAT regardless is because he's in a division where just having power or a lucky punch can trump all your skill advantage and yet he still went 28 wins in a row. And relative to their division, a lot of these guys are still great wins. Not really comparable to LW skillsets though.
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There is zero evidence that Porier is a more skilled fighter than Fedor or Shogun. ZERO.

Dumbest shit I ever heard. 🙄🤦

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There is zero evidence that Porier is a more skilled fighter than Fedor or Shogun. ZERO. Dumbest shit I ever heard. 🙄🤦

Quote where I said that. Oh wait, you can't?

Learn how to read dumbfuck.

It's also an empty point. And retarded in a sport already separated by weight classes.

Well I don't know if it's such an empty point. Don't people still struggle with calling Amanda Nuñes one of the best fighters in the sport because of the same argument that skill for skill she's worse than unranked bantamweights?

You can't even properly explain why the argument is "retarded". You use an reductio ad absurdum fallacy by saying "that argument leads to obviously absurd conclusions so therefore it is wrong."

So no, it's not an obviously absurd conclusion that there could be random bantamweights more skilled than Fedor; you're conflating resume/accomplishments with sheer skill. You even admit yourself that it's evident that smaller fighters have a higher skill ceiling, but then fail to explain why the argument is so absurd

I mean nobody would take seriously a comparison of Umar Nurmagomedov and Fedor, but skill for skill Umar has better kicking ability, better striking defense, and better double/single legs. It sounds stupid to make this comparison because heavyweights (same with bantamweight women) will never be as skilled as the lower weight males so it's "pointless" to compare their skills. And even fat fuck unskilled heavyweights would win in a fight against more skilled bantamweights because at heavyweight power and toughness is a larger proportion of effective fighting capability (which is why a Ngannou is more revered than a Nuñes despite practically having the same amount of skills).

But you were the one who used the term "skill for skill" in the first place, so don't complain when Fedor's competition doesn't match up in that exact facet.
 
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