Who has the better grappling. Ciryl Gane or Poatan?

[Superzorro]

Gane could tap Alex not vise versa

These are my thoughts as well unfortunately. You combine the slight difference in skill with Gane’s size, and I think Gane beats him. If not by submission, then just points from takedowns and advantageous positions or near submissions.

Only reason people rate Gane so lowly is because of Jones, which is hilarious because he’s one of the best MMA grapplers around right now. Once you lose to Jones, you’re the suddenly the worst in the world at whatever he beat you in to the MMA masses. The only tier of grappler I’d be confident Jones loses to is the one with guys like Werdum, Maia etc.

 

[markg171]

That has more to do with fight IQ than it does actual grappling. And the thing with Francis Ngannou— I know he’s big, and he’s supposed to be stupid and not skilled (sarcasm but people actually think this for some reason) at anything. But he has actual submission wins. Israel Adesanya for as long as he’s been fighting still has zero. Losing a ground fight to Ngannou, especially when considering his size, is not as bad as losing one to Adesanya.

Those grappling exchanges between the two of them, if you examine the techniques and the leverage they used, might honestly have been some of the least skilled grappling I’ve seen in MMA in a long time.

I like how you blamed Gane going for a leg lock without even having his hands free to do so as Ngannou had wrist control, hence how he swept him, as poor fight IQ.

Meanwhile Pereira/Izzy is the worst grappling you’ve ever seen when neither of them tried a leg lock without even physically being capable of doing one at the time.

Let alone addressing the fact both fights were 2 years ago and since then Gane’s gotten demolished by Jones on the ground even worse meanwhile Pereira’s defended against Jan and Jiri on the ground just fine and gotten his black belt by Glover. Just completely disregarded 0 progress from Gane and clear progress from Pereira.

Just admit you’ve got a weird hate boner for Pereira for some reason.

 

[Superzorro]

I like how you blamed Gane going for a leg lock without even having his hands free to do so as Ngannou had wrist control, hence how he swept him, as poor fight IQ.

Meanwhile Pereira/Izzy is the worst grappling you’ve ever seen when neither of them tried a leg lock without even physically being capable of doing one at the time.

Let alone addressing the fact both fights were 2 years ago and since then Gane’s gotten demolished by Jones on the ground even worse meanwhile Pereira’s defended against Jan and Jiri on the ground just fine and gotten his black belt by Glover. Just completely disregarded 0 progress from Gane and clear progress from Pereira.

Just admit you’ve got a weird hate boner for Pereira for some reason.

No, I just don’t think Pereira is God. Pereira’s got this weird cult of personality going on in the fan base right now where he can do no wrong and every accomplishment he has is multiplied by 100x. It’s the same with Tom Aspinall. We’re congratulating him for being rewarded his black belt, when he got it off of a knockout in a fight with no grappling? This is no different than McGregor getting his brown belt from knocking out Dustin Poirier. I mean even Tyron Woodley got criticized for being promoted to black belt off his submission of Till.
Pereira would get submitted on the ground by Jones too. Glover, the guy who gave him his black belt got submitted by Jiri. So do you think Pereira has better grappling than Glover? I don’t get it. Pereira got up off the ground from underneath Jan but he’s clearly not a better grappler than Jan. So what does that mean? Do you think Jan holds Gane down like that?
There are actually people in this thread who act like that black belt should count in this comparison. It’s no hate from me to Pereira, you can see me defending him in other threads— I just find it to be funny how bandwagon and recency biased MMA fans are.

 

[markg171]

No, I just don’t think Pereira is God. Pereira’s got this weird cult of personality going on in the fan base right now where he can do no wrong and every accomplishment he has is multiplied by 100x.

What does that have to do with who's the better grappler between him and Gane?

Pereira would get submitted on the ground by Jones too.

The question is whether that happens in 2 minutes effortlessly like Jon did to Gane though. Not if Jon submits Pereira period.

Glover, the guy who gave him his black belt got submitted by Jiri. So do you think Pereira has better grappling than Glover?

If you at all looked at the timeline Pereira fought Jiri after this and didn't get submitted so that should rather tell you either Jiri got worse or Pereira got better in this time frame. Not who's the best among Glover, Jiri, and Pereira.

Of which the obvious answer should be that Pereira's improved his defences enough not to get submitted.

Pereira got up off the ground from underneath Jan but he’s clearly not a better grappler than Jan.

Well Jan is a black belt so I have no idea what point you think you're trying to make. congrats on getting up from a BB?

Especially as once again that was over a year ago. Pereira wasn't a BB at the time and survived against one, and now has another year experience. AKA he's better now than he was then.

There are actually people in this thread who act like that black belt should count in this comparison. It’s no hate from me to Pereira, you can see me defending him in other threads— I just find it to be funny how bandwagon and recency biased MMA fans are.

Yes, it's a complete mystery why one would count Pereira's black belt awarded from a fellow black belt gainst Gane's non existent black belt.

 

[Superzorro]

What does that have to do with who's the better grappler between him and Gane?

The question is whether that happens in 2 minutes effortlessly like Jon did to Gane though. Not if Jon submits Pereira period.

If you at all looked at the timeline Pereira fought Jiri after this and didn't get submitted so that should rather tell you either Jiri got worse or Pereira got better in this time frame. Not who's the best among Glover, Jiri, and Pereira.

Of which the obvious answer should be that Pereira's improved his defences enough not to get submitted.

Well Jan is a black belt so I have no idea what point you think you're trying to make. congrats on getting up from a BB?

Especially as once again that was over a year ago. Pereira wasn't a BB at the time and survived against one, and now has another year experience. AKA he's better now than he was then.

Yes, it's a complete mystery why one would count Pereira's black belt awarded from a fellow black belt gainst Gane's non existent black belt.

That was me responding to you saying I had a hate boner for Pereira. I can ask you the same question. What does accusing me of hating Pereira have to do with who is a better grappler between him and Gane? See how dumb that sounds? Moving on.

Grappling doesn’t work like that. Is Brendan Shaub better than all the opponents Roberto Cyborg submitted just because he survived and didn’t get submitted? A submission is a submission. Pereira could get submitted by Jones in the fifth round or he could just get controlled and held there, but he’s not out grappling Cyril Gane. He has to show he can actually control or submit someone for starters and he has yet to do that. All of the time Pereira has spent in the octagon grappling, has been losing off his back on the defensive. He hasn’t shown the offense required to begin to say he could beat anyone on the mat. You’re giving him credit for things that he hasn’t even done yet. He hasn’t beaten anyone on the ground at any minute in any fight.

 

[blaseblase]

Pereira hasn't shown any offensive grappling. None whatsoever. But the defense he has shown is better than Gane's.

 

[Spath]

I’ve been rewatching a lot of glover’s fights lately and think his grappling is way overrated. Phil Davis absolutely mopped the floor with him, tapping to a RNC with no hooks in against Jiri with seconds to go, 30-27 against beastin 25/8 after getting out grappled just to name a few that stood out off the top of my head.That being said Gane has submission wins and Alex doesn’t. I’m going with Gane for better grappling. I wouldn’t mind seeing Alex vs Gane for his HW debut

Gane has submission wins, but I’m not sure how much water they hold. You can check out the thread I made like 5 years ago:

Gane vs Pessoa discussion

Okay, time to discuss Gane vs Pessoa, especially the finish of the fight. Gane was fighting smart, didn’t get into a brawl with Pessoa and used his jab well. Pessoa was throwing full power and missing comfortably. Then they clinched and Pessoa went for a trip takedown. Watch the finish with...

forums.sherdog.com

I’m not saying that fight was a work, but… I’m saying the guy gave up and let Gane cinch the head and arm choke (arm triangle). That ending sequence stinks to high heaven, lol

 

[Tweak896]

I think if Pereira falls to Ankalaev's wrestling, then Gane can takedown Pereira. I think many are underrating Gane's grappling based off Jones/Ngannou fights.

 

[linvillegorge]

Poatan for sure. Gane made Ngannou look like Brock Lesnar in the wrestling department. Poatan showed solid grappling against Jan. Yeah, Izzy took him down and everyone points to that but I don't think the thought of Izzy potentially taking him down ever crossed his mind. Gane got taken down repeatedly by Ngannou from some of the sloppiest, most telegraphed shots I've ever seen in a high level MMA fight. He might as well had yelled out his intentions before shooting from 8 feet away with no setup.

 

[TheMadHatter]

Gane has submission wins, but I’m not sure how much water they hold. You can check out the thread I made like 5 years ago:

Gane vs Pessoa discussion

Okay, time to discuss Gane vs Pessoa, especially the finish of the fight. Gane was fighting smart, didn’t get into a brawl with Pessoa and used his jab well. Pessoa was throwing full power and missing comfortably. Then they clinched and Pessoa went for a trip takedown. Watch the finish with...

forums.sherdog.com

I’m not saying that fight was a work, but… I’m saying the guy gave up and let Gane cinch the head and arm choke (arm triangle). That ending sequence stinks to high heaven, lol

Ill check it out, I honestly havent ever rewatched the fight