Who had a better career in MMA?.. Matt Hughes or BJ Penn?

[ilfirin]

BJ. Fought the majority of his career way above his real weight class. Broke more records, first American to ever win a gold medal in the mundials as a black belt. On top of being among the fastest ever to get to black belt lever. There's a reason why he's the Prodigy. He held titles in multiple weight divisions and fought the likes of fucking Machida, at heavyweight, and did a hell of a lot better than a lot of his LHW opponents. He had an elite ground game combined with stellar boxing and power. Combined with among the best takedown defences ever and a granite chin.

 

[SuperNerd]

Without doubt it's Hughes.

His career is highlighted by dominance, a strong will and a massive comeback highlight.

BJ Penn's is littered with coulda, woulda's. Penn was a sore loser and a poor winner.

 

[ilfirin]

 

[honzo]

BJ Penn

 

[Clear Winner]

Hughes and it's not even a question. It's like asking who had a better career, Big Nog or Randy Couture.

If not for GSP, Hughes would be close to Fedor level of dominance. His final years competing were pretty meh, but that's not exactly rare in this sport.

Not really. What about Thiago Alves and BJ?

I lol'd at your first point about Nog and Randy, because I think that's a close call too, but I assume you meany that Randy is the easy choice?

 

[TheComebackKid]

Not really. What about Thiago Alves and BJ?

I lol'd at your first point about Nog and Randy, because I think that's a close call too, but I assume you meany that Randy is the easy choice?

He was already a shell of himself when he fought Alves. Hence why despite the boost Alves got for beating a big name, along with a shell of himself Karo, he has been very average since.

 

[Clear Winner]

He was already a shell of himself when he fought Alves. Hence why despite the boost Alves got for beating a big name, along with a shell of himself Karo, he has been very average since.

I think it's more that the game was evolving very quickly and Hughes never developed good stand up. In fact, it was embarrassing and he was always going to struggle against anyone that he couldn't take down.

Ultimately, I think that it can be argued either way about their careers, but I don't think the question of "who is the better fighter?" can. Penn is far more well rounded, has beaten Hughes twice, despite being a natural LW.

 

[TheComebackKid]

I think it's more that the game was evolving very quickly and Hughes never developed good stand up. In fact, it was embarrassing and he was always going to struggle against anyone that he couldn't take down.

Well thats the thing. Prime Hughes was such a physical and grappling beast that he could dominate without having great striking. Alves has never been a good grappler and gets dominated by most grapplers he fights. The fact Hughes couldn't impose his grappling skill set on Alves speaks to Hughes decline. Its not like Alves was ever a marquee fighter. He beat shell of himself Hughes, shell of himself Karo, and pretty decent Koscheck. That run made him "elite". He's been average to bad ever since.

Ultimately, I think that it can be argued either way about their careers, but I don't think the question of "who is the better fighter?" can. Penn is far more well rounded, has beaten Hughes twice, despite being a natural LW.

"Well rounded" is a subjective assessment. A peak record of 41-4, 10+ top 10 wins, 2 title runs, 7 title defenses, and wins over greats Penn and GSP are objective accomplishments that trumps Penns.

 

[KillerElite]

Hughes by far. He actually beat GSP once, while BJ got whooped by "Rush" 2 times.

BJ won the first fight.

 

[Torrid]

Penn, easy.

 

[Deleted member 245586]

Hughes won 9 gold belts while Baby Jay won 5.

Penn has double digit losses and only won something like 11 fights at his best weight class.

 

[lsa]

Hughes won 9 gold belts while Baby Jay won 5.

Penn has double digit losses and only won something like 11 fights at his best weight class.

I dont know why but I just have a feeling you are biased.
Not that you not are 100% correct in this post, but still.

 

[Frozenkilt]

Better career? Hughes and it isn't even close.

BJ is a cult figure and an MMA icon but always was and still is his own worst enemy. He lost a lot of fights, especially near the end, because he never grew with the sport or really took it seriously. Uber talented but zero work ethic. And it's really cool that he would fight anyone but if you look at his record outside of lightweight, you realize it was almost always a huge mistake.

Hughes was athletic and had an unreal work ethic. And the proof is in the record.

 

[Clear Winner]

Well thats the thing. Prime Hughes was such a physical and grappling beast that he could dominate without having great striking. Alves has never been a good grappler and gets dominated by most grapplers he fights. The fact Hughes couldn't impose his grappling skill set on Alves speaks to Hughes decline. Its not like Alves was ever a marquee fighter. He beat shell of himself Hughes, shell of himself Karo, and pretty decent Koscheck. That run made him "elite". He's been average to bad ever since.



"Well rounded" is a subjective assessment. A peak record of 41-4, 10+ top 10 wins, 2 title runs, 7 title defenses, and wins over greats Penn and GSP are objective accomplishments that trumps Penns.

I'm not saying Alves was ever great. You initially stated something along the lines of "he would have had a Fedoresque run if it wasn't for GSP". I just made the point that if GSP never fought, Hughes would have still lost to Alves and Penn. That's just stating facts.

Also, I meant well rounded as in Penn was a good striker and an elite grappler. Hughes was an elite grappler and a poor striker.

What isn't subjective is that Hughes was finished by Penn, who was a LW, TWICE. Argue about his career all you want, but Penn was the better fighter of the 2.

 

[theincognito]

Matt Hughes has a great record (45-9) but his best wins were against injured Penn and rookie GSP, who both avenged the losses twice. He had some other good wins but none of those fighters would be in todays top 10.

 

[CerebralKnievel]

BJ Penn! The Prodigy!!!!

His book "why i fight" is a good read bros. So good I liked it so much, I gave it away to my new bro who happens to have BJ as his favorite fighter, only reason I gave it to him was because he was moving away. He read it and said damn!

Thought I was a fan before but I like him more.

Your critical review of this book leaves me yearning to know more. Which publication are you currently writing for?

 

[lsa]

Matt Hughes has a great record (45-9) but his best wins were against injured Penn and rookie GSP, who both avenged the losses twice. He had some other good wins but none of those fighters would be in todays top 10.

Of course not. They are all old and more or less retired.
:icon_chee

And I guess Hayato Sakurai does not count with BJ and GSP?

 

[CerebralKnievel]

Better career? Hughes and it isn't even close.

BJ is a cult figure and an MMA icon but always was and still is his own worst enemy. He lost a lot of fights, especially near the end, because he never grew with the sport or really took it seriously. Uber talented but zero work ethic. And it's really cool that he would fight anyone but if you look at his record outside of lightweight, you realize it was almost always a huge mistake.

Hughes was athletic and had an unreal work ethic. And the proof is in the record.

I love reading insipid shit like this from internet posers.

"Zero work ethic."
"Never grew with the sport."

Please share with us more of your keen musings on life, wise one.

 

[anthony stark]

hughes by being more consistent

 

[fearoth]