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Who Crossfits?

Discussion in 'Strength & Conditioning Discussion' started by KAYNE, Jun 12, 2008.

  1. pescimove White Belt

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    Good attitude, only way you can really know about something is to do your due dilligence and then jump in and try it. Only way you're going to know if Ross, Crossfit, Westside, 5 x 5, Starting Strength, whatever works for YOU. Good luck.
     
  2. EZA Joel Jamieson

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    CrossFit is the epitome of successful marketing on a foundation of terrible programming and philosophy. How exactly they were able to convince people that everyone should be doing the exact same workouts regardless of age, abilities, specific needs, or goals is beyond me. The foundation of their entire program flies in the face of everything that has been learned about human performance and stress physiology over the last 50 years.

    Most of the reason they've been successful is they've somehow convinced people doing a whole bunch of random exercises is a smart way to train and following a workout of the day requires no thought process or planning from people so it's easy. If you train for any specific purpose at all I would highly recommend learning the basics of programming rather than just following some nonsense program that has no scientific basis behind it or rational programming involved in it whatsoever.
     
  3. XTrainer Red Belt

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    Still, it's infinitely better than 90% of what I see going on in my gym. And I'm not a CrossFitter myself, for the record.
     
  4. EZA Joel Jamieson

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    I'd say it's better in some senses and worse in others. From everything I've heard from people that have gone to CrossFits around where I am, and the Seattle location was literally the first CrossFit affiliate in the nation by the way, there are a TON of injuries in the program.

    I was told one day the guy running the place literally decided they should all go out and run a 10k for training out of nowhere despite never running any real distances previously to that. A lot of their affiliates are run by people with little to no real training in any strength and conditioning principles or techniques other than their little CrossFit seminars they go through and have no real place coaching and training people.

    In a sense the lifts they do probably offer more benefit than the standard gym approach when done correctly, but then again performing heavy explosive lifts and training completely randomly without being physically prepared to do the things is a recipe for disaster in the long run. Taking a bunch of people, most of whom have little to no background in training outside of general health and fitness routines, and throwing them into an intense program of explosive and heavy lifts without any preparation work is one of the dumbest things you could possibly do.

    There is no training progression, periodization, or methodical aproach whatsoever from what I've seen. Maybe most people in a regular gym don't get the best results, but at least most of them aren't getting hurt in the gym all the time either.

    The least they could do is create some sort of progressive system within CrossFit where beginners work on different things than people who have been training there a a year or two. But then again this would go against their ridiculous "everybody should be doing the same thing" approach to training that they advocate so I doubt it'll ever happen. Their program has the potential to be ok if they just took the time to structure and organize it in a way that had any kind of rational thought or progression behind it.
     
  5. Urban Savage Mystic

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    Copied and pasted from a previous comment I made on crossfit:

    Crossfit gets criticism from me based on its over rotation of drills and lackof specificity. These can both be rationalized when you consider the broad crossfit audience.

    on rotation -
    Right now I do three lifting sessions and three GPP sessions per week (I try anyways), and I rotate anything out the moment it stops progressing. So if I do "Mary" on monday, and managed a faster time next week, more resistance the next, and a faster time still the following week, why would I rotate it out if I'm still making progress. the moment it quits progressing, I'll swap it out for "claudia" or some ross enamait drill or something similar. However, If I'm an internet paradigm broadcasting my WOD's to thousands of people, one of them is bound to not make progress on mary next week, so its in my best interest to rotate it out with greater frequency to keep people interested.

    on the lack of specificity -
    Much of my gpp is geared towards firefighting. I do sled drags with an out of service fire hose, sled pushes for search and rescue practice, stair climbs, etc. But if I am running crossfit, I have to recognize not everyone wants to be a firefighter, in fact, most people just want "to get in better shape." so specificity isn't a big deal to me. Quite the opposite, being as general as possible holds a greater priority so people can be jacks of all trades and see the fruits of their labors (no matter how close to fruitless they may be) in as many areas as possible.

    I don't hate crossfit for what it is, and fewer and fewer people are doubting its ability to improve gpp and crossifter ability to generate inventive GPP drills, but it doesn't constitute a complete system for most people who have any kind of goals or drive towards consistent regular progress. As a one size fits all, it's not terrible though.
     
  6. EZA Joel Jamieson

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    From their website frontpage....

    "We
     
  7. MikeMartial Black Belt

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    Not that I particularly care for the opinion of others on this topic, but I did think the timing of this was oddly funny. Taken from the CF main site yesterday:

    "Those who do not recognize the physiological import of CrossFit - unprecedented increases in work capacity across broad time and modal domains - are left with no rational explanation of CrossFit's popularity and reach. For these people I am typically seen as a marketing savant whose marketing strategies curiously won't replicate. It's like a blind guy wondering why everyone hangs out under lights at night." - Greg Glassman
     
  8. Bainbridge White Belt

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    It always amuses me that hypothetical/theoretical/scientific explanations on why CrossFit doesn't work are from people who have never tried it with honest effort.

    Here's the deal. Try it for 6 months - preferably under a recognized CrossFit coach. If it's not your thing, that's okay, but at least you'll have a better understanding of what it is. Trust me when I say that looking at it on paper and actually doing it are two VERY different things.
     
  9. MikeMartial Black Belt

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    Anthony you come from a powerlifting background, correct? What got you into Crossfit?
     
  10. EZA Joel Jamieson

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    Here is what it comes down to:

    I spent $300 to spend 3 days at the Olympic Training Center in Colorado and learn from some of the very best Weightlifting coaches in the entire country and be certfied from USA Weightlifitng as a Club Coach.

    I spent less than $300 to attend a 2 day seminar from Dave Tate and others at Westside and learn from some of the very best Powerlifters in the nation.

    I spent about $260 to spend an entire week at Dr. Mel Siff's house in CO and study with one of the best sports scientists in the country.

    I can email Dr. Verkhoshansky, one of the true pioneers in the field of sports training, and ask questions on training on his discussion foum for free

    People are spending up to $1000 to learn basic lifts from random "Crossfit" certified people with little to no background in exercise physiology, biomechanics, or coaching experience whatsoever and be told the best program is to just do everything at random because that's how real life works and how the body adapts.

    If that's not an example of marketing I don't know what is.

    Also, his statement "Those who do not recognize the physiological import of CrossFit - unprecedented increases in work capacity across broad time and modal domains" is a great example of total gibberish that sounds like something but actually means next to nothing.
     
  11. Bainbridge White Belt

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    When I started to get back into fighting, I knew I had to improve my conditioning. I was doing some stuff with sandbags, kegs, sledgehammers, sleds, etc ... but wanted more options. Stumbled on CrossFit, tried it, immediately realized the impact it would have on my fighting. Haven't looked back. I may not be the best fighter, but I always dictate the pace. :D
     
  12. Bainbridge White Belt

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    EZA, you obviously are committed to expanding your knowledge. You should seek out the backgrounds for the people who are involved in CrossFit. I would start with Greg Glassman, Mark Rippetoe, and Mike Burgener. Attend their lectures, read their publications, and send them an email with questions you might have. You might even try asking the people you look up to for their opinion. One step further would be to actually apply the principles. Then make a decision. By the time that research is complete, you'll also have a mile-long list of other people involved with credentials that will satisfy your desire for science.

    Or, show up in Aromas California on July 5th and put your training to the test against 300 CrossFit Competitors. :)
     
  13. JRT6 Black Belt

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    [​IMG]
     
  14. EZA Joel Jamieson

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    Thanks for the advice. That's pretty funny. And thanks for the invite but on July 5th I'll be in Vegas with one of the fighters I train for his fight in the UFC, maybe I should look into the CrossFit program Glassman is talking about that they use with cage fighters 4 weeks out from a cage fight and with elderly individuals with heart disease, that must be one hell of a program! Since you said you're a fighter I assume that must be the program you're on too. Maybe I've got this whole training thing all wrong?

    How about instead we put the winner of these 300 CrossFit competitors in the ring and I'll be happy to spar a few rounds with them. I'm sure that with all their CrossFit training they'll have cardio for days since CrossFit training is all so general so it transfers into everything right?
     
  15. Bainbridge White Belt

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    EZA, it was an honest suggestion. You can act on it and learn something or you can ignore it. It really doesn't matter to me. Unfortunately, sarcasm over the internet doesn't really advance the conversation in a positive direction.
     
  16. EZA Joel Jamieson

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    I appreciate your honest suggestions then and I would invite you to also do some reading and educate yourself as well. I would advise you start off with The Stress of Life by Hans Selye, Adaptations in Sports Training by Atko Viru, Programming and Organization of Training by Verkhoshansky, and Science and Practice of Strength Training by Zatsiorsky.

    I'm quite certain Selye, Viru, Zatsiorsky and Verkhoshansky have a bit more to teach and there is more you can learn from them than from Glassman, Ripptoe, and Burgener, no offense to any of them intended. I've also already read through pretty much everything on the CrossFit site and found scientific inaccuracies and misunderstandinds of basic human physiology throughout all their material so I'd suggest whoever wrote that material might want to consult the authors I mentioned as well.
     
  17. Bainbridge White Belt

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    I wish I had known about those inaccuracies and misunderstandings before I got strong, fast, with great conditioning. Whoops!
     
  18. Jake Martin Amateur Fighter

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    I'm not hating on Crossfit (I, like Urban, steal a lot of the WODs), but I will say that doing SOMETHING on a dedicated schedule will get you results, even if it is a poorly designed program. Back when I was doing a single bodypart per day lifting schedule, I got bigger and I got stronger. Simply because I got in there every day and did the work.

    I think this is the charge against Crossfit - it's nowhere near a well designed program. It does have a lot of fun and challenging WODs, and it will get you in shape - but there are better, more specific ways to go about it.

    I still like it because I enjoy stealing Workouts and being able to compare my times against hundreds of others across the world. It has it's positives and it's negatives, like anything else in life.
     
  19. Barut Banned Banned

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    EZA for president!

    One size fits all.
     
  20. Todd Gack Dutch

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    I used Crossfit in prep for my PD Fitness Test. I like it for conditioning.
     

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