Who beats JDS?

oh and reem is going to ko JDS my friends.

we have an decent boxer with no wins over any decent striker/never fought a decent striker in his life. vs. the kickboxing world gp champ/in basically a k1 fight with different gloves, who has beat strikers alot more dangerous in every aspect than a 1 dimensinoal boxer with no striking experience against high level competition.

what is there even a debate over?
 
There are 3 guys (Overeem,Jones and Cormier) who will definitely beat JDS. Once he fights any one of those 3 guys JDS will lose. Take that to the bank.

jds would obliterate jones. take ur trolling somewhere else
 
The punching power thing can only work for so long. Unless I see more than that, there's a few people that come to mind simply because we've really only seen one aspect of his fighting.
 
No. K1 is not overrated. I used to think that myself before I really started watching it hardcore, I starting watching k1 like crazy, including watching most of the old events and the reason I know it's not overrated is simply the technique. If you watch mma fights, and watch k1 fights, and you really understand striking, you can see a night and day difference.

I lost a lot of respect for guys like Shogun and Wanderlei (that helped me fall in love with MMA) when I really started watching K1 because I realized that frankly.... they're terrible. They're striking is terrible. Oh sure for MMA it looks good. When compared to forrest griffin, shogun looks like floyd mayweather but the problem is there is no tyrone spong's in mma (until...obviously his debut)

the closest thing is Anderson Silva and frankly I've seen k1 guys that I'm 1000% sure would beat him on the feet 9/10 times, even if they were the same size. Tyrone Spong is a perfect example.



Did you even bother reading my post? I explained this pretty clearly.

Styles. Make. Fights.

When a great striker like Alistair is fighting someone like Werdum or Lesnar, he's more worried about the takedown than anything else, so it makes his striking look less impressive.

The only time Werdum had any good exchanges with him was when Overeem thought he was going to grab a leg so he kept his hands low. In the rare moments where Overeem was like "oh, you wanna strike?" He tagged Werdum with every punch and knee he threw. Easily. Effortlessly really.

So when Overeem is worried about the takedown (like he was against Werdum) his striking suffers a little. I don't debate that. And that's why I think Cain might be a bad match for him.

But against Junior Dos Santos, he's not going to be worried about the takedown which is why if Junior is smart, he'll surprise Reem with a couple of takedowns just to keep him guessing

but the thing is, I seriously don't think JDS will do that. I think he has so much confidence in his striking, he will actually have a straight up striking match with JDS (until he gets hurt, then he might start shooting) and that is why this will be whole different fight than Werdum. The two cannot even be compared because JDS is not a ground fighter.



-i don't think the mma gloves are that big of a deal.
-I don't know why you think JDS is the better athlete... better cardio because he doesn't carry as much muscle maybe, but that's not the same thing
-tougher?
-better boxer? shit.... alistair has thrown hands with Badri Hari and WON. JDS has simply thrown combinations at roy nelson's face. To really prove you're a good boxer, you have to box with someone that has good boxing, JDS has never done that. None of his opponents ever had good hands.

mma gloves ARE that big of a deal when overeems whole striking defense revolves around massive 16oz gloves. and yes jds is tougher. when have we seen him mentally check out of a fight? i can name many times where alistair has. "40 extra pounds of whoopass" wont make his will to win any stronger once jds punches him in the face. jds via ko
 
The punching power thing can only work for so long. Unless I see more than that, there's a few people that come to mind simply because we've really only seen one aspect of his fighting.

TDD, chin, boxing technique and footwork aren't parts of fighting now. Kay.
 
To me the number 1 mystery on sherdog is "Why the hell do so many people think Junior Dos Santos can outstrike Alistair Overeem?"

or to be more specific, a lot of people seem VERY confident that he'll not only beat Alistair on the feet but do so fairly easily.

To me this is mind blowing. I can't even think of a good analogy to stress how much that baffles me.

You can say "This isn't K1" all you want to but the differences are not big and the strikers in K1 are MUCH better than Junior Dos Santos. They just are. Tyrone Spong is so much better on the feet than Junior Dos Santos

and Alistair won the k1 grand prix! he beat Spong, but somehow he's not a big favorite to beat JDS standing? Actually not only is he not a big favorite, he's not even a favorite...

I'm so confused. Styles make fights and since JDS is a boxer/brawler with heavy hands, fighting the BEST KICKBOXER IN THE HW DIVISON should have people worried big time.

And it's not like Alistair is a 1-dimensional striker either, he's got great BJJ and GNP if he goes to the ground.

And who the heck has JDS even fought to make people think he can outstrike Alistair Overeem for fucks sakes? The best striker he's ever fought was a way past his prime Mirko and he came out with a big black eye.

the 2nd best elite one would be maybe... cain or mir (so in other words, not even close to Alistair level)

and maybe you want to point out that Overeem's only fought so/so fighters at HW except Brock and Werdum and maybe you'll say "oh he didn't look good against werdum at all"

but again STYLES MAKE FIGHTS. He looked sloppy against werdum because werdum was desperate to take it down and Overeem was only concerned about defending the takedown. He didn't give one single shit about Fabricio's hands

With JDS, he knows it's essentially a kickboxing match. There's almost no chance JDS would shoot for a takedown considering the confidence he has in his hands (he thinks he can knock out a klitchko for crying out loud)

So frankly we are going to get a STRIKING match between Overeem vs JDS, and that means Overeem will be in full k1 striking mode (except now he's allowed to thai clinch completely so he's even more dangerous)

That's a nightmare match up for Junior Dos Santos. The only prayer he has to win that (which is what I think JDS fans are counting on) is that the smaller gloves allow more shots to get through Overeem's high guard and basically that his so called "weak chin" will show up in the fight.

but not only do I think Overeem's "weak chin" is a myth, because he's never been hurt unless it was by a heavy hitter throwing a very nice punch, but even if it's not, he's learn to defend very well.


You forgot about location. The ring benefits overeem very much. The smaller ring with its corners allows overeem to constantly trap his opponents and unload his tremendous offense. The cage on the other hand, is a huge benefit to jds. He can use his excellent footwork more easily. Can't be cornered. Come in at an angle and go out another. Using quickness instead of power. And pictures of jds leading up to the first fight, made it seem like he was preparing this way. He was losing weight concentrating on quickness probably.

Summary- Ring -overeem advantage
Cage - dos santos
 
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and why are you so sure that Cain will not do it in the rematch? Overeem would beat JDS imo.

JDS has absolutely nothing on Overeem, Overeem is stronger than JDS, Reem has good subs with and a better ground game than JDS
 
I would bet a house on JDS vs Bones. I am sure JDS would put him to sleep. Machida connected and JDS is no Machida. Jones would be out for real. Hell, Jones was running from Rampage, too bad Rampage had no desire to actually run after him.
what? JDS can KO Jones but you are comprising a LHW Jones.
once Jones move to HW and weight 240ibs, he would be an unstoppable force in HW.

i see Jones will be a big threat to HW when he move to HW.
3 reason.
-Jones has 84" reach, JDS has 77" reach, Overeem has 80" reach, Cain 76" reach
-Jones is still young in his prime
-Jones learn his skills from DBZ

3 of that reasons is why Jones is too good at LHW.
don't blame height and reach.
Overeem was taller than Jones, he's 6'5" and Jones only 6'4" and not to mention Overeem was almost has the same reach as Jones, 80" reach but look at Overeem fighting at LHW, he wasn't as good as Jones, got beaten twice by Shogun.
Jones on the other hand totally beat Shogun so easily.

Overeem just become unstoppable once he move to HW and has never lose a fight since then.
once Jones move to HW, he would be even better than Overeem.
 
Cormier I think has the best chance, maybe Josh Barnett if he could get a take down.
 
TDD, chin, boxing technique and footwork aren't parts of fighting now. Kay.

I can't get too excited about how limited he's been tested anywhere besides stand-up to the point I think he's unbeatable. It's not that irrational to believe he's beatable with as little beyond power punch boxing we've seen from him so far. Every long reigning champ in modern MMA/UFC is a reigning because they're well rounded in most aspects of MMA than less. I can't honestly sit here and act like he's unbeatable because he's solely boxed everyone so far. Eventually he'll have to use another one of his skills to win, and we'll find out if he's that great elsewhere at some point.
 
-i don't think the mma gloves are that big of a deal.
-I don't know why you think JDS is the better athlete... better cardio because he doesn't carry as much muscle maybe, but that's not the same thing
-tougher?
-better boxer? shit.... alistair has thrown hands with Badri Hari and WON. JDS has simply thrown combinations at roy nelson's face. To really prove you're a good boxer, you have to box with someone that has good boxing, JDS has never done that. None of his opponents ever had good hands.

MMA Gloves are a big deal considering how Overeem uses his defense
 
Overeem loses a slight defense advantage by losing the big gloves.

He gains an enormous offensive advantage by being granted the ability to do a two handed clinch. That advantage is bigger than anything he loses, at least in my opinion, based on how Reem fights.

His whole K1 run he was fucking guys up with a one armed clinch. I'm sure he likes having two hands back.
 
Overeem loses a slight defense advantage by losing the big gloves.

He gains an enormous offensive advantage by being granted the ability to do a two handed clinch. That advantage is bigger than anything he loses, at least in my opinion, based on how Reem fights.

His whole K1 run he was fucking guys up with a one armed clinch. I'm sure he likes having two hands back.

Which allegedly K-1 changed their entire rule set to make sure Overeem would not have all of his advantaged. They made the one handed clinch rule and then they made a rule that you can only throw one knee before being forced to disengage from the clinch.

They wanted Reem to not have his best weapons. He still won.
 
No. K1 is not overrated. I used to think that myself before I really started watching it hardcore, I starting watching k1 like crazy, including watching most of the old events and the reason I know it's not overrated is simply the technique. If you watch mma fights, and watch k1 fights, and you really understand striking, you can see a night and day difference.

I lost a lot of respect for guys like Shogun and Wanderlei (that helped me fall in love with MMA) when I really started watching K1 because I realized that frankly.... they're terrible. They're striking is terrible. Oh sure for MMA it looks good. When compared to forrest griffin, shogun looks like floyd mayweather but the problem is there is no tyrone spong's in mma (until...obviously his debut)

the closest thing is Anderson Silva and frankly I've seen k1 guys that I'm 1000% sure would beat him on the feet 9/10 times, even if they were the same size. Tyrone Spong is a perfect example.



Did you even bother reading my post? I explained this pretty clearly.

Styles. Make. Fights.

When a great striker like Alistair is fighting someone like Werdum or Lesnar, he's more worried about the takedown than anything else, so it makes his striking look less impressive.

The only time Werdum had any good exchanges with him was when Overeem thought he was going to grab a leg so he kept his hands low. In the rare moments where Overeem was like "oh, you wanna strike?" He tagged Werdum with every punch and knee he threw. Easily. Effortlessly really.

So when Overeem is worried about the takedown (like he was against Werdum) his striking suffers a little. I don't debate that. And that's why I think Cain might be a bad match for him.

But against Junior Dos Santos, he's not going to be worried about the takedown which is why if Junior is smart, he'll surprise Reem with a couple of takedowns just to keep him guessing

but the thing is, I seriously don't think JDS will do that. I think he has so much confidence in his striking, he will actually have a straight up striking match with JDS (until he gets hurt, then he might start shooting) and that is why this will be whole different fight than Werdum. The two cannot even be compared because JDS is not a ground fighter.



-i don't think the mma gloves are that big of a deal.
-I don't know why you think JDS is the better athlete... better cardio because he doesn't carry as much muscle maybe, but that's not the same thing
-tougher?
-better boxer? shit.... alistair has thrown hands with Badri Hari and WON. JDS has simply thrown combinations at roy nelson's face. To really prove you're a good boxer, you have to box with someone that has good boxing, JDS has never done that. None of his opponents ever had good hands.

I followed K-1 a lot before and I agree that the level of striking generally is higher than in MMA, but it's not the gap some try to make it out to be. Sapp, Choi, Rampage, Mousasi and Overeem were fighters who did much better than many thought they could do. Top Boxers generally are better strikers than both Kickboxers and MMA fighters. That's where there is a bigger gap.

Dos Santos worries about takedowns as well so that excuse doesn't really apply, despite the threat of the takedown Dos Santos is more impressive than Overeem standing in MMA.

Trying to tell Someone88 that he's wrong is futile.

Just remember Natman, if JDS fights a Klitschko he would KO them. And in the rematch with Werdum JDS is going to throw him in a triangle from top position with his new blackbelt.

What the hell are you talking about? If people make good points I will agree with them. I don't just argue for the sake of it.

When did I say Dos Santos would ko Klitschko? If you read those threads I actually said Wladimir would dominate Dos Santos in Boxing I said it at least a few times.
 
I think will come in with a better gameplan this time around but I see the fight ending the same way. Reem is a possibility but I think JDS can KO him. Possibly Cormier.
 
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