When fighters have clearly ducked another fighter?

[WklySportsMemes]

High volume, athletic pressure fighters taper off first, and sometimes very abruptly. In Tyson's case his absolute most destructive years were 85 to 88. Once he demolished Spinks he started to slide, in small ways. Cutting corners on how he closed the distance. Things like that. The loss of the D'Amato lineage and Tyson's lack of discipline vastly accelerated this decline that would have happened naturally several years later. It's the way of boxing. Even if Tyson did everything right until when he fought Holyfield, he still would have been slipping and would have not been in his prime to handle Holyfield. Some people say no version of Tyson could have handled Holyfield. I don't know about that.

I like the 1st part. Good way to put it.
I dont think anyone can say one way or another what Tyson would of been if he corrected some of his issues or approached things differently back then. I'm not big on speculating on stuff that can never happen or be proven. There is no point to that.

 

[PUO3]

Can't duck someone not in your weight class. If you start going on about guys actively in different weight classes then you might as well say that Anthony Joshua is ducking Inoue. GGG could not fight out of 160 without giving up one or more of his belts and his intention at the time was to unify.

Golovkin asked for anyone 154-168.....his words.

Spoiler

Im mostly kidding

 

[svmVR2097]

All that stuff is the same as an injury. Massive drug addiction and legit Mental illness is probably worse to come back from than most physical injuries. Not sure how that can be a shocker to any non-sheltered adult.
Great deny reality, be my guest.

Also you can see high school and collegiate SUPER STARS peak and never pan out in every sport. There are plenty of guys who dominated top competion then but were done by that age in the pros.

Those guys were still at their athletic primes though, they just didn’t have the skill

Lebron in his prime at 28-32 couldn’t jump as high as he could when he was 18-22 but can’t deny his athletic prime during that age

 

[deucesarewild]

Golovkin asked for anyone 154-168.....his words.

Spoiler

Im mostly kidding

Not sure it was a duck. And Ward was at 175 at the time, I think?

Read the spoiler!

 

[Goober stoober]

It’s the promoters who do the ducking. Milking a cash cow before risking their record in a mega fight is the nature of the business.

I get why it happens but it’s the reason we don’t see the fights we want right away. There’s so much money on the line for all the parties involved and fighters only have so many paydays in em, Floyd being an exception.

 

[deucesarewild]

I like the 1st part. Good way to put it.
I dont think anyone can say one way or another what Tyson would of been if he corrected some of his issues or approached things differently back then. I'm not big on speculating on stuff that can never happen or be proven. There is no point to that.

It's likely that if trained mentally and physically in a more devoted and deliberate way, he would have done better for longer. That's a reasonable take founded on why people train to begin with. Anyway, it's not that there's no point to speculating as the "point of something" usually comes down to the individual and their way of being. It does come second to what actually took place though. Some people would say there's no point to gambling but there is a whole industry around it. Anyway, what Tyson could or couldn't do becomes second to what did happen.

 

[deucesarewild]

Especially for a guy who almost never lost rounds. Almost all his fights were shutouts culminated by a brutal late-round stoppage, some earlier than that. Antwun Echols was the only one that was able to really give him trouble. Joe Lipsey and John David Jackson were competitive with him, but they never really had him in trouble before getting KO'd.

Hopkins is great to learn some tricks from because he uses technique and fundamentals and works at all ranges. His footwork is subtle but effective and he is a classic example of trained skill over raw talent. In fact, aspiring pure boxers have a lot to learn from him.

He could be boooooring, and at times a little dirty especially on the inside, but for.my previous reasons I appreciated what he did.

 

[Kforcer]

Hopkins is great to learn some tricks from because he uses technique and fundamentals and works at all ranges. His footwork is subtle but effective and he is a classic example of trained skill over raw talent. In fact, aspiring pure boxers have a lot to learn from him.

He could be boooooring, and at times a little dirty especially on the inside, but for.my previous reasons I appreciated what he did.

He was one of my favorite fighters back in the day, if not my favorite. I actually think he was pretty exciting to watch when was a middleweight, especially through his first 14 defenses. He put on a lot of pressure, kept a pretty good pace and if he didn't finish his opponents, he almost always came very, very close by the 11th and 12th. Lipsey, Jackson, Echols 1 and 2, Trinidad...all of those were exciting affairs in my book. And of course, Steve Frank was pretty exciting while it lasted. I didn't think his dominant performances over guys like Glen Johnson or Andrew Council were boring either, they were compelling because the performances were just so flawless, even if the fights themselves weren't so competitive.

The older he got, the less active and more defensive-minded he became and his power also seemed to diminish a bit, but he still had some pretty exciting bouts with guys like Pascal and Tarver. I think as some of his physical prowess receded, he changed his style up accordingly and became a little less interesting to watch in terms of pure entertainment.

He was definitely dirty though. Dirty in the sneakiest way possible. He knew how to do it and get away with it.

 

[deucesarewild]

He was one of my favorite fighters back in the day, if not my favorite. I actually think he was pretty exciting to watch when was a middleweight, especially through his first 14 defenses. He put on a lot of pressure, kept a pretty good pace and if he didn't finish his opponents, he almost always came very, very close by the 11th and 12th. Lipsey, Jackson, Echols 1 and 2, Trinidad...all of those were exciting affairs in my book. And of course, Steve Frank was pretty exciting while it lasted. I didn't think his dominant performances over guys like Glen Johnson or Andrew Council were boring either, they were compelling because the performances were just so flawless, even if the fights themselves weren't so competitive.

The older he got, the less active and more defensive-minded he became and his power also seemed to diminish a bit, but he still had some pretty exciting bouts with guys like Pascal and Tarver. I think as some of his physical prowess receded, he changed his style up accordingly and became a little less interesting to watch in terms of pure entertainment.

He was definitely dirty though. Dirty in the sneakiest way possible. He knew how to do it and get away with it.

You're on the nose, bud. I agree.

 

[WklySportsMemes]

Those guys were still at their athletic primes though, they just didn’t have the skill

Lebron in his prime at 28-32 couldn’t jump as high as he could when he was 18-22 but can’t deny his athletic prime during that age

-Thats great that you can have a scouting report for people you don't even know the names of....That seems real credible
-Yes Lebron, a once ever in a lifetime freak athlete is a great example to compare other athletes to. Real logical...

 

[WklySportsMemes]

It's likely that if trained mentally and physically in a more devoted and deliberate way, he would have done better for longer. That's a reasonable take founded on why people train to begin with. Anyway, it's not that there's no point to speculating as the "point of something" usually comes down to the individual and their way of being. It does come second to what actually took place though. Some people would say there's no point to gambling but there is a whole industry around it. Anyway, what Tyson could or couldn't do becomes second to what did happen.

Just like all the positive what ifs there are an equal amount of negative what ifs too. Chaos theory. No way to control or change one variable in life and keep everything else constant.

 

[svmVR2097]

-Thats great that you can have a scouting report for people you don't even know the names of....That seems real credible
-Yes Lebron, a once ever in a lifetime freak athlete is a great example to compare other athletes to. Real logical...

Don’t even know the names of? Who did I get wrong?

I can absolutely compare a once in a generation athlete to a one in a generation freak of an athlete.

 

[WklySportsMemes]

Don’t even know the names of? Who did I get wrong?

I can absolutely compare a once in a generation athlete to a one in a generation freak of an athlete.

Thats the point. You are making broad generic assumptions that aren't true. Every person and athlete is different. This isn't build a bear.

FYI Lebron is still dunking on people, still getting his head above the rim, still running down blocks on fast breaks, and still out running players on FBs... while his athletism isn't what it was its still superior to most NBA players.
He has one of the longest reins of dominance in any sport. Thats due to BOTH skill and out of this world athletsim + speed and strength for his size.

The complete opposite of Tyson. Who was small for division and did not have the longevity with his skill or athletism anywhere near that of Lebron.
Its a horrible comparison not even apples to apples. The 2 have nothing to do with eachother. 2 totally different people and athletes.

 

[SuwoopBangin]

floy ducked margarito

 

[svmVR2097]

Thats the point. You are making broad generic assumptions that aren't true. Every person and athlete is different. This isn't build a bear.

FYI Lebron is still dunking on people, still getting his head above the rim, still running down blocks on fast breaks, and still out running players on FBs... while his athletism isn't what it was its still superior to most NBA players.
He has one of the longest reins of dominance in any sport. Thats due to BOTH skill and out of this world athletsim + speed and strength for his size.

The complete opposite of Tyson. Who was small for division and did not have the longevity with his skill or athletism anywhere near that of Lebron.
Its a horrible comparison not even apples to apples. The 2 have nothing to do with eachother. 2 totally different people and athletes.

If he was small then what was Holyfield? A blown up cruiser.

Tyson was short but he was about 220lbs which throughout history is right around what all the greats were. Ali and Foreman were 216 and 220 respectively for their fight

And anyone that wins the heavyweight title at 20 years old through power and ferociousness, is a generational athlete

 

[JayE]

Hopkins ducked Ward and Toney

When did he duck either of them? Toney was already a LHW by the time Hopkins won a title at MW. By the time Hopkins was a LHW, Toney had been a HW for several years. Timelines don't make any sense, whatsoever.

 

[deucesarewild]

Just like all the positive what ifs there are an equal amount of negative what ifs too. Chaos theory. No way to control or change one variable in life and keep everything else constant.

Again, not refuting speculation, but recognizing its place after understanding what actually happened.

 

[CodeBreaker]

floy ducked margarito

this.

 

[KillerIsBack V2]

Post fight interviewer:”so floyd moved up and ..”
Shane Mosley :” you see I got this tooth, u know, I gotta go to the dentist, then a long holiday trip with the wife and kids, you know. I just feel real tired and shit, I dont know what I want”

... like jeez, as if the average fighter doesn’t compete twice a year. Answer the damn question.

 

[WklySportsMemes]

If he was small then what was Holyfield? A blown up cruiser.

Tyson was short but he was about 220lbs which throughout history is right around what all the greats were. Ali and Foreman were 216 and 220 respectively for their fight

And anyone that wins the heavyweight title at 20 years old through power and ferociousness, is a generational athlete

Tyson was a small heavyweight. Known fact