What's the criteria for no longer being in your prime?

[HHJ]

Chuck was losin it before then probably but rashad showed how fuckin slow chuck had become in that fight.

 

[HHJ]

This is the most common "peds aren't that bad" argument that I see on here. The problem with it, is peds allow you to recover faster, which means you can train more often while still maintaining strength and vitality. And resistance to injury. So yes, taking peds DOES help with all the things you listed.


And the idea that enhancing strength and stamina, and boosting confidence and aggression, couldn't enhance striking and grappling...

Peds are the worst shit ever. But his point was that the fighters were adding techniques amd strategies later into their careers and its true. Like many grapplers,to adjust to the wear and tear on their bodies some become agressive head hunting strikers and werdum had def gone that way.

 

[imarayda]

You know it when you see it.

 

[Mike]

Peds are the worst shit ever. But his point was that the fighters were adding techniques amd strategies later into their careers and its true. Like many grapplers,to adjust to the wear and tear on their bodies some become agressive head hunting strikers and werdum had def gone that way.

I know, but he specifically said taking peds didn't help them learn new skills. Training every day, especially when you're older, is definitely aided by peds.

I agree about turning into a brawler, that happened to Fedor as well.

 

[imarayda]

And not all drop offs area created equal.

 

[HHJ]

I know, but he specifically said taking peds didn't help them learn new skills. Training every day, especially when you're older, is definitely aided by peds.

I agree about turning into a brawler, that happened to Fedor as well.

and hendo,rampage amd many others. People actually believe they stop grappling just cos.

 

[The Fat Mexican]

When you start slowing down physically or when you're not hungry enough anymore.

 

[kickpuncher]

Is it one loss? This is MMA so fluke wins and losses happen all the time.

Is it 2 losses in a row?

No longer being in your prime means you have passed your physical peak. There really is a short window at being at your most best, with quick reflexes, power, recovery, stamina, etc. For most males it is usually between, IMO, 24-30. This is physically, however I think your mental peak can be into the 50s.

Look at the LW division as the perfect example of this. When was the last time the champ of that division was 30 years or older? If my math is right, the last champ at LW was S Sherk at 30+ years of age. LW is usually considered to be stacked and this truly shows the peak age group. HW is not stacked which is why DC can still win the belt. I think it also shows the effects of the major sports, since many of those in the LW or lower divisions aren't able to make it big in the major sports and therefor increases the amount of potential prospects for the LW division. The major sports usually get most (or the first look) of the big strong men in the US (at least), which is why some of the top divisions are so weak, HW perfect example.

 

[tequilaboy]

On sherdog losing a fight to a top 5 fighter.

 

[gono btw]

Is it one loss? This is MMA so fluke wins and losses happen all the time.

Is it 2 losses in a row?

A prime is not only about age, physical state, or how many fights u had (all sports combined)..

It can be a mental thing, like Frank said after the Cung Le fight, when he said that he no longer had the mental discipline to follow a gameplan.

A prime is also not about winning or losing. U can still be winning and no longer be in your prime: this is called fight IQ & experience, mental warfare too (see the B-Hop case).

Now a physical prime, back in the days (now with so many sophisticated PEDs...), would go up to 34 yrs old maxi.

 

[Shaddows]

Is it one loss? This is MMA so fluke wins and losses happen all the time.

Is it 2 losses in a row?

It is mainly mileage.
Someone who's been in wars will get out of prime sooner.
Someone who goes beast mode in training will have more wear & tear
Someone who is prone to injuries will get out of prime faster due to time recovering

A fighter can get out of his prime without losing by picking easier fights
A fighter can be in his prime and lose on a fluke/silly mistake.

it is all relative

 

[mkt]

I'm not a Fedor fanboy, but your argument crumbles when you say things like, "33 is not old for a HW MMA fighter."

First, in just about every sport, being 33 means you are on the backside of your career. A man's athleticism starts to wane well before reaching the age of 33. That fact isn't even up for debate.

Second, every athlete ages differently, which is dependent on a number of factors (e.g., genetics, quality of training, nagging injuries, mileage on the body, etc.).

Third, Fedor's style was never conducive to longevity. He was a small HW who depended on being a fast twitch athlete (i.e., explosion, quickness, reflexes, etc.). Those are the first attributes to decline as a man ages. Whereas guys who rely on being physically power or who are grinders are able to stay relevant much older. There's a reason why guys like George Foreman and Bernard Hopkins were champions well into their 40s (albeit not as good as when they were younger), while someone like Ali (and other fast-twitch boxers) was completely shot in his mid 30s.

Fourth, MMA has done an awful job of developing young HW prospects over the years. Hence, there has been an abundance of old veterans who have remained relevant. This isn't indicative of the fact that "33 is not old for a HW MMA fighter." Rather, it's due to the fact that not enough young lions have come along to replace the old ones. Whereas most divisions have gotten better and deeper over the years, HW has grown thinner.

6 paragraphs and you didn't address the absurdity of the Fedor-Ali comparison? A 40-year old with early onset Parkinson's taking on a young boxer vs. a 33-year old losing to two guys around the same age as well as a 40-year old MW? I'll give you an "A" for being pedantic and an "F" for addressing the issue at hand.

 

[moogie101]

It's not after one or two losses, it's when a once great fighter starts losing regularly to lesser opponents he'd once have walked through.

Often you'll see a loss of speed, cardio, punch resistance and usually its a combo of all three.

For some that comes due to age or amount of fight, for others there is no reason to it, but it happens to every fighter eventually.

 

[Taric]

6-10 years of fighting elite competition.
Literally no fighter has ever fought elite competition for 10 years and gotten out of it unscathed, or just flat out retired.

Anderson started to lose a lot after 10 years of elite competition. GSP retired after 9 years of elite competition. Fedor started to lose a lot after 8 years of elite competition. Etc, etc.

 

[DayV]

Trying to fly from Japan to America with a PRIDE Open Weight GP belt.

That shit takes years off your life more than the in-flight Salisbury steak.

There was a big difference in the way Cro Cop could effectively fight in ring and Pride rules, versus big round cage with wire fence and unified wrestling rules; and also big difference in the way his opponents could fight him.

Japanese ring and american cage versions of MMA are totally different in rules and environment, almost entirely different sports, like NFL and british rugby for example.
For Cro Cop as is K-1 fighter and kicker with relatively short hand reach, and relatively light, UFC rules and cage were simply bad environment that redouced his qualities and gave advantages to his opponents.

It was not matter of quality, or better competition, it was simply matter of different negative rules and environment while he was still relatively healthy.
Of course, later you have to add huge mileage, injuries and age.

Since you often post similar crap, this is objective explaination based on technical facts.
Big round cage with no corners, wire fence and unified wrestling rules were simply bad for his style and his characteristics as a fighter.

 

[ferrisjso]

No objective way to know. Normally age but most other sports have you work up so much more mileage and you can tell, 30's in most sports is a sign the end is sight, in MMA being in your mid 30's is no big deal in other sports it's huge. If someone's style is more technical like AS dude could probably fight at a high level till he's 50. Another problem with defining a "washed up" fighter is because MMA is so young it's hard to tell the difference between someone getting old and them getting surpassed by superior athletes. Like people always go on about Chuck losing his chin and then ignore that his chin hadn't been tested in years when he fought Rampage. People always say AS got old when he only loses and struggles against guys who are his size. So what's age and what's just being surpassed?

Then there's the people who use being washed up as an excuse for fighters losing. Shogun was washed up before he was 30 cause shocker a fighter who was famous for his kicks went to a promotion with no soccer kicks and stomps.

 

[One MMA Fan]

For me a combination of: a clear and repeated degradation in psychical abilities, reduce skill set usage, evolution or progress, will and hunger, years and wars sustained thus far, chin, fight shape, repeated bad performances sometimes even without taking the loss while other time in free fall full of L's etc.

 

[Big Dawg]

When you have to start taking dick pills to perform.

 

[MMAHeadSpace]

I think it's just that 'something doesn't look quite right'. When a fighter isn't as sharp in their respective skills, looks slow and sluggish and starts racking up losses.

 

[Bamboozled]

Post your favorite moment of "past prime."

Chucks prime ended long before then. He probably started slowing down in 2005. He just fought Randy, Tito and Babalu who were all tailor made for him.