What's the criteria for no longer being in your prime?

It's when you lose a fight or two...then get match-up against someone ranked significantly lower than you...and you lose that fight as well. It's losing that fight you "should" have won.

Jarl
 
Mike said:
This is the most common "peds aren't that bad" argument that I see on here. The problem with it, is peds allow you to recover faster, which means you can train more often while still maintaining strength and vitality. And resistance to injury. So yes, taking peds DOES help with all the things you listed.


And the idea that enhancing strength and stamina, and boosting confidence and aggression, couldn't enhance striking and grappling...

{<huh}
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I am not making an arguement that PEDs don't enhance performance. All I was saying was Werdum and Anderson Silva were better MMA fighters in their mid 30s than in their early 30s since they had more skills(early 30s Anderson had weak TDD and had a hard time getting back up, early 30s Werdum wasn't a very good striker). They were not in as good of shape in their mid 30s as their early 30s but they were still MMA fighters. PEDs are performace enhancing drugs, that's what they do. The person who replied to me made it about PEDs.

Look at the post chain, it basically started with Marc A insinuating that all that matters in terms of an MMA fighters prime is his physical abilities not his/her actual ability to fight. I told him that there have been multiple MMA fighters that were better after their physical prime was over and that was due to gaining more skills in various martial arts while they physically started declining. Then he assumed for some reason that I don't think PEDs enhance performace. Werdum's striking greatly improved when he joined King's MMA and Anderson's TDD/Grappling greatly improved when he left Chute Box to train with the Nog brothers(I think both had used PEDs prior to this but they didn't get much better till they got much better trainers/coaches)
 
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HW fighters have no prime since they are all prone to getting KO'ed now and then...or every other fight. Very fiddly sort of concept.
 
I normally take the fighters record, fights, fight camp, roid use, age, lifestyle and history of injuries then just kind of use what scouts call the "eye test." It's really not complicated, and doesn't need to be explained.
 
If signs of physical deterioration start to become frequent during at least two fights (preferably consecutively). The more, the better though.
 
You perform a lot worse than you did in your prime, consistently.
 
mkt said:
My favorite is when you're a 34-year old HW but you lose to a 40-year old MW....cause he was in his prime and you weren't!
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yeah nothing to do with fighting men considerably larger than him for 15 years, that wouldn't hasten his decline compared to other fighters at all. Also it's quite clear to anyone who has eyes, Fedor was considerably slower and less mobile from the Hunt fight onwards. At that point his record was 26-1, that is absolutely insane for a heavyweight where there are so many more variables than just pure skill that can contribute to winning or losing. Show me another heavyweight who managed to keep his skills and athleticism in tact for longer than Fedor did.
 
Local Plata said:
That's such dumb logic. The fact he made such a huge payday means he doesn't have to fight in MMA, he chose to do so because he wanted to and believed he was at his best and could win, otherwise why get punched/take a beating for a much smaller pay day? Conor is in his prime, and is as good as he ever has been.

The idea that he is unmotivated to fight in MMA after getting such a huge payday is completely contradicted by the fact that he got back in the cage and fucking fought. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills needing to explain this to people.
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Bj is a rich guy too but he loves to fight and needs to prove something
 
Aberlour said:
yeah nothing to do with fighting men considerably larger than him for 15 years, that wouldn't hasten his decline compared to other fighters at all. Also it's quite clear to anyone who has eyes, Fedor was considerably slower and less mobile from the Hunt fight onwards. At that point his record was 26-1, that is absolutely insane for a heavyweight where there are so many more variables than just pure skill that can contribute to winning or losing. Show me another heavyweight who managed to keep his skills and athleticism in tact for longer than Fedor did.
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I realize Fedor fanantics aren't known for math nor logic skills, but Fedor had been fighting just over 10 years when he faced Hendo. On the other hand, Hendo had been doing MMA for 14 years and had been doing high-level (college and above) wrestling for over 25 years at that point. Wrestling is also hard on your body, especially with the training and weight cuts. So cry me another river.
 
If you have lots of fans but then you lose, it's because you were out of your prime, and totally nothing to do with your opponent being better than you, honest.
 
It varies for different fighters. Some people just choose when the fighter starts to lose fights, but that could be a change in level or style of the new competition too.

For Fedor it was a style change of his own. He stopped his preference for grappling like his earlier fights where he had so many submissions. He started going for striking in much higher amounts. Note that almost all of his later fights are TKO or KO for him or his opponent.
 
When it's a convenient excuse for the fans of a particular fighter to explain away their losses.
 
britelights1124 said:
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Post your favorite moment of "past prime."
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The lightning is almost on point.
 
For MMA fans: losing a couple fights
For Biology: Your physical prime is 20-29 with the slow decline beginning at 30 but it can be masked in skill sports with technique
 
AnotherOldGuy said:
Never according to others. Lets face it, Fedor when he lost to Werdum, like Muhammad Ali when he lost to Trevor Berbick, and Babe Ruth in his last year of baseball when he hit .181, was as good as he ever was. Fedor like Muhammad Ali and Babe Ruth was a can crusher who got exposed when he faced real competition.

Its actually a pretty interesting list. Shaq O'Neil, who many thought was one of the greatest NBA centers ever, was exposed by the time he was 35. Usain Bolt, who was supposed to be the fastest sprinter ever, was exposed last year when he only came in 3rd in the world championships -- clearly he was never fast. And look at Gretzky's last year in the NHL, or Tiger Woods golf lately --- obviously neither were ever very good, people just thought that until they were exposed. And Anderson may have looked like one of the MMA GOAT's, but like Fedor he was exposed (actually exposed both at the start of his career by Chonan and at the end by a number of guys).

The list goes on and on ... because athletes never leave their primes, they are only exposed.

Sports fans are pretty funny that way; athletes themselves realize that get older or lose motivation to train or run into psychological or substance abuse problems. Fans think athletes are machines that run at the same level until they die.
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Difference Fedor hid in japan. In strike force we got to see his ability.
 
vcmmafan said:
For MMA fans: losing a couple fights
For Biology: Your physical prime is 20-29 with the slow decline beginning at 30 but it can be masked in skill sports with technique
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You must have some shit genetics in your family. I’m 31 and compete in both MMA and triathlons and I’m coming into my prime now and expect to till I’m over 40.
 
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