Whats going on in Chicago?

[HamPhan]

What were you hoping to achieve with these stats?

Violent crime -

Whites - 232,180 with 63% of population
Blacks - 140,543 with 12% of population

Weapons carrying -

Whites - 63,961 with 63% of population
Blacks - 44,284 with 12% of population

Do you realize these stats display blacks committing wildly disproportionate amounts of violent/ weapon crime? Truly bizarre you shared this.



EDIT: Most shocking of all -

Murder and nonnegligent manslaughter:

Whites: 3908 with 63% of population
Blacks: 4,347 with 12% of population

Because he borrows his thoughts from people he agrees with. Groupthink.

 

[NoGiRonin]

It is all the hoods. The gangbangers that want to routinely make their neighborhoods shit are the sole reason for the body count. But politicians and SJW's all want to blame everyone else. I believe that here in Chicago, we need to treat gangbanging thugs like terrorists.

 

[BrianFantana]

Yet, 30 minutes away in a different state , there isn't a shooting every few minutes. It would appear that there's a problem with the people and their leadership, since guns are just a tool.

This is a poor comparison considering the population and population density of those respective areas.

 

[BrianFantana]

What were you hoping to achieve with these stats?

Violent crime -

Whites - 232,180 with 63% of population
Blacks - 140,543 with 12% of population

Weapons carrying -

Whites - 63,961 with 63% of population
Blacks - 44,284 with 12% of population

Do you realize these stats display blacks committing wildly disproportionate amounts of violent/ weapon crime? Truly bizarre you shared this.



EDIT: Most shocking of all -

Murder and nonnegligent manslaughter:

Whites: 3908 with 63% of population
Blacks: 4,347 with 12% of population

I wasn't hoping to achieve anything. I was pointing out that what you think or believe is not relevant when there are facts.

 

[BrianFantana]

Fake news.

Fake... peer-reviewed scientific studies?

 

[BrianFantana]

Because he borrows his thoughts from people he agrees with. Groupthink.

Didn't borrow anything from anyone. Provided studies conducted by universities across the US and other countries, and provided the crime statistics compiled by the FBI. Facts are facts.

Where my opinion comes into play is what I think the facts reflect in terms of demography and policy. I haven't mentioned my thoughts on any of those things.

 

[livingdeadmoose]

Don't worry, gun control will fix it any day now.

 

[oldshadow]

This is a poor comparison considering the population and population density of those respective areas.

So the areas that allows guns but have no where near the crime should have to change their laws because Chicago can't deal with their problems.

 

[BrianFantana]

So the areas that allows guns but have no where near the crime should have to change their laws because Chicago can't deal with their problems.

The US is an interesting case because it has decentralized criminal law-making powers. The other G20 countries have centralized criminal law with their respective federal governments. I believe the results show that federal regulation is far more effective than regional or state regulation.

 

[The Beevers Revenge]

I wasn't hoping to achieve anything. I was pointing out that what you think or believe is not relevant when there are facts.

But the facts you provided clearly supported what I was saying and what you called racism?

 

[bobgeese]

A cancerous culture.

 

[BrianFantana]

But the facts you provided clearly supported what I was saying and what you called racism?

You said:

You mean it works OK in countries with lower numbers of Blacks and South Americans. The idea of removing guns from law abiding citizens in the US is completely insane.

You went on to say that the numbers of black and Latino people is actually low, but the crime rate is high, suggesting you are contradicting yourself.

Notwithstanding, several countries with populations that are nearly all black or Latino do not experience the same rates of violent crime. It would appear there are more factors at play than simply population theory.

 

[oldshadow]

The US is an interesting case because it has decentralized criminal law-making powers. The other G20 countries have centralized criminal law with their respective federal governments. I believe the results show that federal regulation is far more effective than regional or state regulation.

Maybe because we started as states then became a nation.

We wanted to maintain that independence to a large extent after we became a nation.

Yes it is less effective in controlling the population but we like it that way, at least the majority does anyway.

 

[BrianFantana]

Maybe because we started as states then became a nation.

We wanted to maintain that independence to a large extent after we became a nation.

Yes it is less effective in controlling the population but we like it that way, at least the majority does anyway.

Well, that may be relevant if you don't consider it's the same method by which every major nation in the world formed: a series of independent states or nations joining together as a union.

And national regulation IS more effective, and the MAJORITY of the population, at least in the most recent federal election, voted for someone who was proposing greater federal regulation, suggesting the majority supports it.

 

[The Beevers Revenge]

You said:

You went on to say that the numbers of black and Latino people is actually low, but the crime rate is high, suggesting you are contradicting yourself.

Notwithstanding, several countries with populations that are nearly all black or Latino do not experience the same rates of violent crime. It would appear there are more factors at play than simply population theory.

That is some CNN level cherry picking. I was suggesting the population of Black and Hispanics is much higher than in the Western countries where you suggest gun control has worked; which it is. In what way did I contradict myself by showing the ridiculous crime of blacks compared to their % of population?

You told me that suggesting it is harder for gun control to work in countries with larger numbers of Blacks and South Americans was racist.

Stating facts is racist now? You think all races commit the same amounts of crime??

I don't care what I think. I do care what the FBI thinks: https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2015/crime-in-the-u.s.-2015/tables/table-43

Then you shared your FBI statistics that show blacks commit a ridiculous amount of violent crime. Lol, wut? If there wasn't any black people there would have been less than half the murders in the USA Whilst only losing a small % of the population. I imagine this would drastically lower Americas position on gun homicides per capita ranking.

 

[Drenalin]

Oh, I know what the idea is. The idea hasn't worked for two centuries, but they keep clinging to the notion it will work. The US has over 300 million guns, and the highest rate of gun violence anywhere in the world. The guns aren't protecting anyone to any significant degree.

But everyone knows that. They may be less familiar with what happened in Australia, after strict gun law reform was introduced in 1996 following a string of mass shootings: http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2530362.

I will let anyone and everyone peruse that study (they will not) and offer pointed criticisms of same (charming, I know).

Try living out in the middle of nowhere. I'm talking like 20+ miles from anyone. You can't just call 911 when you need help. You have to rely on guns to protect yourself. Any person who doesn't think guns are necessary obviously hasn't experienced a rural lifestyle.

And guns will always be here. Just like drugs will always be here. You can't take guns away from law abiding citizens, unless you can be 100% certain that criminals won't have guns either. That's impossible. Taking guns away from everyone would be a dream come true for criminals. And if there aren't guns, there will be another form of violence to take its place. That's just reality. Culture is the problem.

 

[oldshadow]

Well, that may be relevant if you don't consider it's the same method by which every major nation in the world formed: a series of independent states or nations joining together as a union.

And national regulation IS more effective, and the MAJORITY of the population, at least in the most recent federal election, voted for someone who was proposing greater federal regulation, suggesting the majority supports it.

That's not how the founding fathers in their wisdom set the nation up at the founding.

We are a nation of states and it was set up so a couple of states with large population areas could not rune roughshod over the rest of the states.

Sure they also made it so it can be changed but they still saw to it that the states have a say in that no matter their population.

This is what makes the US a great place to live.

 

[BrianFantana]

That is some CNN level cherry picking. I was suggesting the population of Black and Hispanics is much higher than in the Western countries where you suggest gun control has worked; which it is. In what way did I contradict myself by showing the ridiculous crime of blacks compared to their % of population?

You told me that suggesting it is harder for gun control to work in countries with larger numbers of Blacks and South Americans was racist.

Then you shared your FBI statistics that show blacks commit a ridiculous amount of violent crime. Lol, wut? If there wasn't any black people there would have been less than half the murders in the USA Whilst only losing a small % of the population. I imagine this would drastically lower Americas position on gun homicides per capita ranking.

Quoting your consecutive posts in their entirety: cherry picking. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

And you're still missing the point. It's not strictly the number of people at play. There are complex socioeconomic factors that account for certain statistics, and there is decades of research on them. For instance, did you know that low socioeconomic status correlates to rates of violent crime more closely than race does? http://www.apa.org/pi/ses/resources/publications/violence.aspx

When you consider that more white Americans enjoy a higher socioeconomic status as a continuing historical trend, and that rates of violent crime are similar as between racial groups in the same socioeconomic brackets, there is increasingly support for the notion that wealth disparity begets disparity in opportunity begets exposure to violence begets incidents of violence. Not blackness begets violence.

Of course, I will let you read the research and comment accordingly.

 

[BrianFantana]

Try living out in the middle of nowhere. I'm talking like 20+ miles from anyone. You can't just call 911 when you need help. You have to rely on guns to protect yourself. Any person who doesn't think guns are necessary obviously hasn't experienced a rural lifestyle.

And guns will always be here. Just like drugs will always be here. You can't take guns away from law abiding citizens, unless you can be 100% certain that criminals won't have guns either. That's impossible. Taking guns away from everyone would be a dream come true for criminals. And if there aren't guns, there will be another form of violence to take its place. That's just reality. Culture is the problem.

I didn't argue for taking anyone's guns away. I advocate for stricter regulations when it comes to firearm purchasing and ownership. I don't believe there are many legal gun owners who believe otherwise.

And ultimately, "culture" is not the problem unless you consider the gap in socioeconomic status and access to capitalist opportunity as "culture".

 

[BrianFantana]

That's not how the founding fathers in their wisdom set the nation up at the founding.

We are a nation of states and it was set up so a couple of states with large population areas could not rune roughshod over the rest of the states.

Sure they also made it so it can be changed but they still saw to it that the states have a say in that no matter their population.

This is what makes the US a great place to live.

If I cared what people in 1776 thought about how things should work, I'd have to get rid of my indoor plumbing, throw out my computer and cell phone, and start panning for gold on the riverbank. Then I'd come home to a nice meal prepared by my slaves and whip my children for speaking too loudly at dinner.

It's 240 years in the future from when a document was drafted by a bunch of old white dudes fearing an imminent invasion from Britain. It's time to assess the present rather than looking to the past for guidance.