What should the UFC do with Ngannou's contract situation?

[HockeyBjj]

Are you suggesting ESPN and other TV networks pay Ngannou?

ESPN and the TV Networks pay the UFC, I don't think the UFC would allow for some contract where the TV networks directly pay the fighters. Although that would be a solution. UFC would never never allow that though.

NFL teams pay their athletes. TV Networks pay the NFL. Same with every other sport. Even individual sports like golf and tennis, TV pays golf and tennis organizations (promoters) who in tern pay the athletes from there.

 

[BigTruck]

Right. So what could the UFC do to make him not want out? Or are they gonna go down with this ship?

For once, it seems a fighter finally has (some) leverage over the UFC. But Francis will have to wait until December, and then for 1 year Francis can only talk contracts with the UFC. So the soonest Francis could fight for another promotion would be April 2024. And that's a long time without making any money, and collecting ring rust.

I forgot about the compete clause. Are you sure that it's 1 year long though? I'm not sure they'd be able to keep him for anything under 10million ( speculation) which he'd likely make more than for a single boxing match against fury. I'd imagine he'd make 20-50 to fight fury(speculation). That would be worth sitting out for 2 years and getting embarrassed in a loss for regardless.

Like I said I don't think he's interested in mma anymore anyway.

 

[deadon]

Have contract talks.

 

[BigTruck]

It’s not just that. He made all this public. If the UFC gives in they will be inviting every other champ or high level contender to pull the same thing. And unless the numbers from 270 prove Ngannou actually is a draw (Which seems unlikely). How do they invite non-draws to just buck the system like that?

The people just saying “just pay him” aren’t seeing the big picture here.

It's a slippery slope for sure. Can they easily pay him much more? Absolutely. Should they pay him more? Absolutely. Does it benefit them to keep him and pay him more? Maybe maybe not but regardless of what happens I think both parties look bad here. Yes UFC looks cheap and Francis should have kept this internal.
Do we have any clue what the ppv buy rate was?

 

[Tweak896]

Sounds like they pull out the interim belt again.

 

[pamirec]

The UFC is in a kinda bad spot right now. If they go ahead and pay Ngannou anywhere close to what he is asking, it’ll encourage other fighters to confront the UFC about payment. Either way the UFC is fooked in this situation.
Thank you, Francis. Lol.

 

[Tito Tapped]

ESPN and the TV Networks pay the UFC

So are you suggesting ESPN pays the UFC 2 million dollars for 26,667 PPV buys?

He should be making at least 1.5 mil per UFC fight as base pay. They have the money, they paid a whopping 2 million dollars in total fighter salary on the card (California AC makes them release fighter pay). That is covered by a measly 26,667 PPV buys at $75 a piece.

 

[Young Calf Kick]

It’s not just that. He made all this public. If the UFC gives in they will be inviting every other champ or high level contender to pull the same thing. And unless the numbers from 270 prove Ngannou actually is a draw (Which seems unlikely). How do they invite non-draws to just buck the system like that?

The people just saying “just pay him” aren’t seeing the big picture here.

Here's a big picture for you.

(Source: Bloody Elbow)

I'm just gonna start posting this graph to every UFC shill on here, so y'all be prepared to be seeing a lot more of the above.

 

[Herwald]

Who knows what the contract situation is like, but I'd just keep offering him fights and move on with the division in the mean time and see how his boxing thing plays out.

For all we know, he represents himself well, but keeps losing and decides to come back to MMA and there you go - he just upped stock cause everyone would be talking about him UFC could then cash out on his name, much like he would be cashing out on UFC's promo machine right now by going to boxing. To say he wouldn't be taken seriously afterwards - no boxer will ever be viewed as a superior fighter until they beat an MMA guy in MMA. So he's not done until he gets beaten by a boxer in MMA.

But, even though it's possible to string a roast together, I wouldn't go the usual petty route where UFC have to whine and shit on him at every turn. Just shut up, let him leave.

If anything, Francis would be a legit test. Cause I think boxing is a mirage. The money there isn't as good as people think.

 

[TempleoftheDog]

It's a slippery slope for sure. Can they easily pay him much more? Absolutely. Should they pay him more? Absolutely. Does it benefit them to keep him and pay him more? Maybe maybe not but regardless of what happens I think both parties look bad here. Yes UFC looks cheap and Francis should have kept this internal.
Do we have any clue what the ppv buy rate was?

I agree they can and should pay everybody more. But, Ngannou should have done his negotiating behind closed doors. The UFC just can’t give in here. It could and probably would open the floodgates. And this fighter pay issue is not going to change overnight. It never has in any sport.

Go watch the movie “Eight Men Out”. The conditions in baseball were way worse than what the UFC is like now. And it took decades to become what it is like now. Even the real Stars back in the day were treated like crap.

The UFC put their full promotional push behind Ngannou a few years ago. And it totally failed. If Ngannou isn’t a star yet, it’s pretty doubtful he will ever become one. And certainly not a superstar. It’s clear that just winning isn’t enough in this sport. Or DJ would have been a superstar.

The UFC is just so different than mainstream major sports. All that matters in those sports is winning. Being the best is enough to become a star. And if you are the best over a number of years you’re guaranteed to be rich and famous.

The UFC’s fanbase is more pro wrestling oriented. It’s about the show you put on. The butts you put in the seats. And the eyes you bring to TV.

The numbers may come out. But the card wasn’t great. There was just a price hike. The numbers for the Stipe/Ngannou rematch weren’t high. There’s no reason to expect 270 to have done big numbers. Which again only justifies the UFC not giving in publicly to Ngannou’s demands. Especially allowing him to go box if and when he chooses.

I’m just seeing the big picture and being realistic.

 

[Senzo Tanaka]

UFC doesn't want to set a precedent Personally, I think Ngannou should have a base pay of 1 million but UFC at the most would offer him 750k-850k. To Ngannou, that's simply not enough based on what boxing pays and UFC's revenue. Someone has to take a stand eventually.

 

[TempleoftheDog]

Here's a big picture for you.

(Source: Bloody Elbow)

I'm just gonna start posting this graph to every UFC shill on here, so y'all be prepared to be seeing a lot more of the above.

You don’t even understand the difference between shilling and seeing both sides of a debate. Post the graph all you want. I’m sure it’ll scare the shit out of WME and make them just throw hundreds of millions in profits away overnight. You clearly have no mind for business. But keep telling yourself otherwise.

LMAO.

 

[jx820]

Morally or financially because they're 2 different discussions.

Financially:

1. You don't want the other fighters to see you cave. At least not easily. They might all grow a pair and start to negotiate. I think the first turn out of the driveway is to offer him anther fight demonstrating your intent to exercise the championship clause. That may come up in court otherwise. Then just wait for him to try to leave. This keeps him on ice not earning an income for almost a year.
2. When he imagines his contract is up, let him talk to Fury or Bellator then sue everyone. Ask the court for injunctions on all fronts. Stall everything he's working on. You want to rack up his legal bills while he's not earning, and make it not worth the time/money for promoters to deal with his mess.
3. This would be a good time to cut any expendable fighter who shares management, trainers, or an agent with him. Make the people around him suffer for standing with him.
4. The whole time you want to leak the narrative to the press and the fans about how he's leaving to get away from Jones because he's scared. You're "hearing rumors from inside his camp" that he knows Jon can take him down at will. That kind of thing. You also want to blame him at every turn for holding up the division, running, not honoring his contract, and anything else you can think of (this is already kind of happening).
5. When he has no place else to go, and you've inflicted sufficient financial pain, then you offer to settle with an undisclosed pay bump that brings him closer to what he's asking for, but doesn't look like a win to any fighters watching from the side line. This agreement bars him from disclosing the terms of the deal or publicly complaining about the whole ordeal.

 

[KantoTerror]

Pay the man his worth...

 

[dipstickjimmy]

Right. So what could the UFC do to make him not want out? Or are they gonna go down with this ship?

For once, it seems a fighter finally has (some) leverage over the UFC. But Francis will have to wait until December, and then for 1 year Francis can only talk contracts with the UFC. So the soonest Francis could fight for another promotion would be April 2024. And that's a long time without making any money, and collecting ring rust.

I believe you are incorrect. Pretty sure the one year exclusive negotiation period isn't a thing anymore. As of Dec 2022 he is a free agent. The contract says it can't be any longer than 5 years in total. That includes Champions clause. That is how Francis and his people see it.

 

[Deleted member 499399]

Best case scenario would be Francis vs Fury in an octagon on ABC. It would be the biggest fight ever. I fail to see why NFL can pay their guys and make money without asking for $80 from the viewer. Mma fans drink beer and drive trucks just like the football fans. Americans aren’t afraid of blood on tv anymore. Those crime investigation shows are disgusting. I leave the room if the wife is watching it and she can do the same when I’m watching violent sports.
Maybe Fox could put something together. If you are going to have free agents like Francis, Jones, GSP, Masdival they could put on some shows to compete with the “UFC brand”.

 

[Black Paladin]

It’s not just that. He made all this public. If the UFC gives in they will be inviting every other champ or high level contender to pull the same thing. And unless the numbers from 270 prove Ngannou actually is a draw (Which seems unlikely). How do they invite non-draws to just buck the system like that?

The people just saying “just pay him” aren’t seeing the big picture here.

Good point. I will admit that.

But the PPV numbers are misleading. For the most part, they always have been.

The general statistics are fine (Conor > Mighty Mouse), but it's really impossible to analyze PPV numbers accurately. Time of year matters. Undercard matters. Counter-programming from rival entertainment matters.

 

[jx820]

Morally or financially because they're 2 different discussions.

Financially:

1. You don't want the other fighters to see you cave. At least not easily. They might all grow a pair and start to negotiate. I think the first turn out of the driveway is to offer him anther fight demonstrating your intent to exercise the championship clause. That may come up in court otherwise. Then just wait for him to try to leave. This keeps him on ice not earning an income for almost a year.
2. When he imagines his contract is up, let him talk to Fury or Bellator then sue everyone. Ask the court for injunctions on all fronts. Stall everything he's working on. You want to rack up his legal bills while he's not earning, and make it not worth the time/money for promoters to deal with his mess.
3. This would be a good time to cut any expendable fighter who shares management, trainers, or an agent with him. Make the people around him suffer for standing with him.
4. The whole time you want to leak the narrative to the press and the fans about how he's leaving to get away from Jones because he's scared. You're "hearing rumors from inside his camp" that he knows Jon can take him down at will. That kind of thing. You also want to blame him at every turn for holding up the division, running, not honoring his contract, and anything else you can think of (this is already kind of happening).
5. When he has no place else to go, and you've inflicted sufficient financial pain, then you offer to settle with an undisclosed pay bump that brings him closer to what he's asking for, but doesn't look like a win to any fighters watching from the side line. This agreement bars him from disclosing the terms of the deal or publicly complaining about the whole ordeal.

Morally:
Settle it in court or arbitration and find an amicable arrangement that respects the rights of the company and it's stakeholders as well as Francis and his team. Do it quickly, quietly, and in good faith.

 

[Black Paladin]

Sounds like they pull out the interim belt again.

"Misbehave, and I am pulling out the belt on you!"--Dana "Daddy" White

 

[dipstickjimmy]

Morally or financially because they're 2 different discussions.

Financially:

1. You don't want the other fighters to see you cave. At least not easily. They might all grow a pair and start to negotiate. I think the first turn out of the driveway is to offer him anther fight demonstrating your intent to exercise the championship clause. That may come up in court otherwise. Then just wait for him to try to leave. This keeps him on ice not earning an income for almost a year.
2. When he imagines his contract is up, let him talk to Fury or Bellator then sue everyone. Ask the court for injunctions on all fronts. Stall everything he's working on. You want to rack up his legal bills while he's not earning, and make it not worth the time/money for promoters to deal with his mess.
3. This would be a good time to cut any expendable fighter who shares management, trainers, or an agent with him. Make the people around him suffer for standing with him.
4. The whole time you want to leak the narrative to the press and the fans about how he's leaving to get away from Jones because he's scared. You're "hearing rumors from inside his camp" that he knows Jon can take him down at will. That kind of thing. You also want to blame him at every turn for holding up the division, running, not honoring his contract, and anything else you can think of (this is already kind of happening).
5. When he has no place else to go, and you've inflicted sufficient financial pain, then you offer to settle with an undisclosed pay bump that brings him closer to what he's asking for, but doesn't look like a win to any fighters watching from the side line. This agreement bars him from disclosing the terms of the deal or publicly complaining about the whole ordeal.

Pretty sure you have the UFC's playbook down pat here. However the contract says the total time cannot exceed 5 years. That means Francis is a free agent Dec 2022. In that case if I was Frank's people I would be going to court to get a ruling preemptively. The UFC has done this before with Randy but his contract was much more restrictive in its terms.

The smart thing for the UFC to do now is pay Francis and book him to box Fury thru ZUFFA Boxing. Perhaps even create Zuffa Boxing with its own rule set to lessen the pure boxers advantage.