What is with the Khabib hate recently?

[aali14]

Not hating on Khabib, he's a great fighter, but his resume is also trash if you want to make a case of him being anywhere near the top 5 P4P Goats.

He is the LW Goat and that alone is an impressive feat, but let's just leave it at that.

 

[matrixremaster]

Its the 0 thats bothering the haters. Live with it.

Khabib - GOAT

The ironic thing is the haters that start endless threads about why he shouldn't be in GOAT discussion are literally not only putting him in the discussion, but actively creating discussions about it.


He's literally put in more GOAT discussions than any other fighter. There's a reason for that.

Not hating on Khabib, he's a great fighter, but his resume is also trash if you want to make a case of him being anywhere near the top 5 P4P Goats.

He is the LW Goat and that alone is an impressive feat, but let's just leave it at that.

When lots of people look "resume" now there's a new post Khabib career trend only look at wins, not looking at how long someone took to get the title shot, not considering losses, dominance ect.

There's a reason why fighters like Jones have Khabib all time top 5 even though he was one of the first guys to insult his number of title defences... because there's a lot more factors at play than simply title defences.

 

[Strijfy]

khabeebs never faught anyone good and now it's finally being exposed and commonly discussed. deal with it.

thats what I thaught... no wait

 

[Iroh]

I know a lot about Khabib though. I look at variables outside of his faultless fighting career like his Sambo career, his coaching career, and the gym stories and footage I've seen. I believe he is every bit as good as they say he is and the best ever.

The guys he beats up in the gym all the time like Islam, Usman, Umar are taking over MMA, that tells me all I need to know.

How much gym footage have you seen would you say?

@HuskySamoan

 

[matrixremaster]

How much gym footage have you seen would you say?

@HuskySamoan

Quite a bit.

He's posted a lot of video's on his Instagram stories bullying his core guys like Usman, Umar, Ghadzi, Abubakar and Islam over the years.

Lots of Sambo stuff like him submitting Islam Mamedov in seconds (which was posted the other day) and countless others.

Bigger guys like Belal put up a clip as well, multiple videos of him and Rockhold and guys at AKA ect.

 

[TheBulge]

There seems to be a trend recently of some sort of idea that Khabib was overrated because he never fought anybody good or moved up in weight.
Never moved to 170:
Several greats never moved up in weight, DJ, Silva never won LHW belt. Jon Jones was considered the GOAT by many before his move to HW due to his domination. This is never discussed that they never moved up or won a belt above their weight class to bring down their legacy.
"But he was a weight bully, 170 would be his normal weight class anyway"
He may of been in the 190s or even 200s in his prime. But on fight night he was never more than 185. Which is about what Poirier and Tony Ferguson weight.
Didn't fight best opponents/clear division:
The biggest names he didn't fight during this time were Alvarez, Ferguson, Barboza, Cerrone, Oliviera, Hooker, Lee, Dariush. Ferguson and Barboza wouldve gotten wrestled. Alvarez would put up a good fight I think but lost the title shot when he lost to Poirier and the left. Cerrone was old, Oliviera only had 1 ranked win I believe and the rest weren't ranked high enough.
Maybe you don't consider him MMA GOAT but it is unquestionable he is top 5. Khabib had done enough and knew he could keep fighting and keep winning but wasn't in it for the money and didn't want to take unnecessary damage. To act like he ran from anybody is delusional.
Can this idea officially be declared debunked?

This is actually hilarious. You're trying to make a case for his legacy, yet you just listed a pretty massive list of big names he never faced in his own era he was supposed to be GOAT in.

In fact he missed so many good names that even you, a big Khabib supporter, FORGOT he actually did fight one of the listed names.

I don't blame you for forgetting. Khabib's resume truly is paper thin for a guy that was supposedly the best of a generation.

 

[Banana Tree's Nemesis]

When biased opinions meet each other, they are bound to create conflict.
This thread isn't objectively better then GOAT bashing. There is no objectively identifiyable GOAT. Bringing arguments in favor of one forward is just as pointless as bringing arguments against one forward.
This comes all down to differing criterias, and it's barely resolvable.
Under the criteria of dominance during bouts, the argument for him above all is strong.
Under the criteria for overall quality density of opponents beat, the argument is better for guys like Jones.

 

[HuskySamoan]

How much gym footage have you seen would you say?

@HuskySamoan

The amount of relevant footage on Khabib sparring or grappling vs other guys is near nonexistent, there's a lot of very short, out of context clips. Not to say by "out of context" that they are misleading but quite literally lack context, plenty are misleading though. For example if you look at the Khabib vs Rockhold entire sparring footage, Rockhold is able to get up very easily everytime Khabib was ontop of him but Khabib really didn't get up when Rockhold was ontop unless Rockhold decided to jump on a sumbission because he was playing with him and then Rockhold could just get back up from bottom or reverse Khabib...Same for those Cormier clips where he's letting Khabib work but it's clear if you know what you're watching by how easy Cormier pushes Khabib around this is not reality. Even the fucking Gilroy clips who was like 16-17 years old in Highschool wrestling and by his own words "they must have had at least 20lbs on me" with Khabib and Islam would get mislabeled "Khabib wrestles #1 ranked USA wrestler" I mean highschools have all sorts of divisions based of school size and significance kinda like our college system has D1, D2, D3, NAIA, Jr etc it means a lot of different things and it fails to mention Gilroy was a kid in highschool.

A lot of these clips are made to make Khabib look better than he was actually looking and fail to give context. The stories of him mopping the floors with D1 wrestlers and submitting ADCC medalists left and right at AKA, the footage doesn't exist and when there's guys like Jacobe Smith he could be wrestling with who's his size, why do they release a young teen who's 20lbs smaller than him in a wrestling match? It's just like come on. Khabib's great but it's a lot of Gracie level marketing. Odds are strong that the reason Islam and Khabib transitioned to Sambo around the age that the Cadet level gets competitive is because they weren't good enough in freestyle to have national hopes in Russia. Why have we never seen Khabib or Islam do the ADCCs if they submit those guys alll the time? The UFC allows you to compete in the ADCCs. Where are the wrestling matches vs D1 guys for fun in the gym? Seriously, have Khabib or Islam tie up with Bo Nickal, ti's about the same size advantage they had on the little highschool kid.

Remember when someone found out of context quotes from Vadim Nemkov about Islam's strength and threads were on here "ISLAM OUTGRAPPLED VADIM NEMKOV" when they finally interviewed Nemkov and asked him about this, he laughed and said "I let him work, he's the smaller man, I don't remember this occasion exactly but I'm sure if I wanted to get up I could have easily, I am much bigger". You'd have to be a fucking idiot to think Islam was ever in a gym somewhere working Vadim Nemkov on the mats. I'm just inclined to think if we haven't seen any of this footage, then it probably doesn't exist. Cormier has been pretty frank when pressed...these guys aren't winning D1 Championships and Shawn Bunch who was a high level freestyle wrestler gave some interviews on this stuff. It's a lot of hype, it promotes them well.

 

[matrixremaster]

When biased opinions meet each other, they are bound to create conflict.
This thread isn't objectively better then GOAT bashing. There is no objectively identifiyable GOAT. Bringing arguments in favor of one forward is just as pointless as bringing arguments against one forward.
This comes all down to differing criterias, and it's barely resolvable.
Under the criteria of dominance during bouts, the argument for him above all is strong.
Under the criteria for overall quality density of opponents beat, the argument is better for guys like Jones.

A fair and balanced viewpoint.

Even as a Khabib fan I can see both sides of the argument.

Lots of his haters only seem to see one though.

 

[TheBulge]

True.

I have no qualms with anyone willing to make an argument against Khabib's achievements even though I'll still argue why I believe he's the best ever. He left the door wide open for that by retiring so young.

I can tell the difference between a hater and someone with a reasonable argument.

I know a lot about Khabib though. I look at variables outside of his faultless fighting career like his Sambo career, his coaching career, and the gym stories and footage I've seen. I believe he is every bit as good as they say he is and the best ever.

The guys he beats up in the gym all the time like Islam, Usman, Umar are taking over MMA, that tells me all I need to know.

Doesn't matter how good you might have been. The end all is about the results. You don't have the resume, you don't get the props.
He very well might have been one of the best H2H fighters ever(or not) but it doesn't mean much when you didn't use your full potential.

 

[Conan the K-9]

I know a lot about Khabib though. I look at variables outside of his faultless fighting career like his Sambo career, his coaching career, and the gym stories and footage I've seen. I believe he is every bit as good as they say he is and the best ever.

The guys he beats up in the gym all the time like Islam, Usman, Umar are taking over MMA, that tells me all I need to know.

Interesting. What do you think, how much of that is just pure psychology? They know how good, almost unbeatable, he is and it is accepted to take a loss when training with him. This is in my opinion also one of the reasons why he was so successful, when he still competed.

Maybe this is not a good comparison, but maybe you get the idea.
I remember when I was a purple belt, rolling with my professor (whom I got that purple and blue), I always had a thought in the back of my head. Like what could I even try because everything I know I have learned from him? Although I knew that he was just playing around and letting me work.
And as far as I know, Khabib takes training very serious and still enjoys humiliating everyone in training, not just letting them work.

 

[matrixremaster]

Interesting. What do you think, how much of that is just pure psychology? They know how good, almost unbeatable, he is and it is accepted to take a loss when training with him. This is in my opinion also one of the reasons why he was so successful, when he still competed.

Maybe this is not a good comparison, but maybe you get the idea.
I remember when I was a purple belt, rolling with my professor (whom I got that purple and blue), I always had a thought in the back of my head. Like what could I even try because everything I know I have learned from him? Although I knew that he was just playing around and letting me work.
And as far as I know, Khabib takes training very serious and still enjoys humiliating everyone in training, not just letting them work.

Khabib's team in Dagestan is so good because they take no prisoner's.

Nobody is going easy on anyone. It's iron sharpening iron. Belal said as much after training with them.

Doesn't matter how good you might have been. The end all is about the results. You don't have the resume, you don't get the props.
He very well might have been one of the best H2H fighters ever(or not) but it doesn't mean much when you didn't use your full potential.

That's the thing though.

Khabib still has one of the longest winstreaks in UFC history and the most title defences at LW.

So he did do quite a bit. Without getting scratched.

 

[Conan the K-9]

Khabib's team in Dagestan is so good because they take no prisoner's.

Nobody is going easy on anyone. It's iron sharpening iron. Belal said as much after training with them.

Yes, but this was not my question.

 

[matrixremaster]

Yes, but this was not my question.

If you're talking about Khabib having a big brother complex over them then yes... most likely. Guys on Khabib's team have been getting the shit kicked out them for years by Khabib so it's impossible for that not to have some psychological impact, but I don't think any of them would have gotten where they are without seriously trying to beat "the Bear" just like he did.

 

[BlackGirlLover]

Wow, I'm surprised matrix didn't make this thread lmfao.

Edit: Never mind just saw his nuthug post <Lmaoo> (like clockwork with Khabib & Islam fans)

 

[B-Man]

The ironic thing is the haters that start endless threads about why he shouldn't be in GOAT discussion are literally not only putting him in the discussion, but actively creating discussions about it.


He's literally put in more GOAT discussions than any other fighter. There's a reason for that.

When lots of people look "resume" now there's a new post Khabib career trend only look at wins, not looking at how long someone took to get the title shot, not considering losses, dominance ect.

There's a reason why fighters like Jones have Khabib all time top 5 even though he was one of the first guys to insult his number of title defences... because there's a lot more factors at play than simply title defences.

Being undefeated by fighting 20+ tomato cans before making it to the UFC doesn't really add to his legacy. He also won a very controversial victory against Tibau that most thought he lost, so that should be a factor at play also.

 

[BigOlJeet]

Well, Conor Mcgregor is the most popular fighter with the biggest fan base in MMA. And Khabib did humiliate and destroy him, so at least a decent portion of Khabib haters are Conor fans

Conor only has financial fans that's all, definitely no fight fans.

 

[matrixremaster]

Being undefeated by fighting 20+ tomato cans before making it to the UFC doesn't really add to his legacy. He also won a very controversial victory against Tibau that most thought he lost, so that should be a factor at play also.

Khabib's wins in Dagestan are underrated. Lot's of beasts there never get the chance to shine on the international stage, Khabib was actually the first from that region. Some of them like Bagov, Eldarov and Shamhalaev went on to become accomplished fighters in their own right.

Khabib was green as hell when he beat Tibau who did zero damage. It was a close decision but if you go through every other GOAT they have had many of those on top of losses.

 

[Iroh]

The amount of relevant footage on Khabib sparring or grappling vs other guys is near nonexistent, there's a lot of very short, out of context clips. Not to say by "out of context" that they are misleading but quite literally lack context, plenty are misleading though. For example if you look at the Khabib vs Rockhold entire sparring footage, Rockhold is able to get up very easily everytime Khabib was ontop of him but Khabib really didn't get up when Rockhold was ontop unless Rockhold decided to jump on a sumbission because he was playing with him and then Rockhold could just get back up from bottom or reverse Khabib...Same for those Cormier clips where he's letting Khabib work but it's clear if you know what you're watching by how easy Cormier pushes Khabib around this is not reality. Even the fucking Gilroy clips who was like 16-17 years old in Highschool wrestling and by his own words "they must have had at least 20lbs on me" with Khabib and Islam would get mislabeled "Khabib wrestles #1 ranked USA wrestler" I mean highschools have all sorts of divisions based of school size and significance kinda like our college system has D1, D2, D3, NAIA, Jr etc it means a lot of different things and it fails to mention Gilroy was a kid in highschool.

A lot of these clips are made to make Khabib look better than he was actually looking and fail to give context. The stories of him mopping the floors with D1 wrestlers and submitting ADCC medalists left and right at AKA, the footage doesn't exist and when there's guys like Jacobe Smith he could be wrestling with who's his size, why do they release a young teen who's 20lbs smaller than him in a wrestling match? It's just like come on. Khabib's great but it's a lot of Gracie level marketing. Odds are strong that the reason Islam and Khabib transitioned to Sambo around the age that the Cadet level gets competitive is because they weren't good enough in freestyle to have national hopes in Russia. Why have we never seen Khabib or Islam do the ADCCs if they submit those guys alll the time? The UFC allows you to compete in the ADCCs. Where are the wrestling matches vs D1 guys for fun in the gym? Seriously, have Khabib or Islam tie up with Bo Nickal, ti's about the same size advantage they had on the little highschool kid.

Remember when someone found out of context quotes from Vadim Nemkov about Islam's strength and threads were on here "ISLAM OUTGRAPPLED VADIM NEMKOV" when they finally interviewed Nemkov and asked him about this, he laughed and said "I let him work, he's the smaller man, I don't remember this occasion exactly but I'm sure if I wanted to get up I could have easily, I am much bigger". You'd have to be a fucking idiot to think Islam was ever in a gym somewhere working Vadim Nemkov on the mats. I'm just inclined to think if we haven't seen any of this footage, then it probably doesn't exist. Cormier has been pretty frank when pressed...these guys aren't winning D1 Championships and Shawn Bunch who was a high level freestyle wrestler gave some interviews on this stuff. It's a lot of hype, it promotes them well.

@matrixremaster your thoughts?

 

[matrixremaster]

@matrixremaster your thoughts?

I've seen a shitload of footage of Khabib ragdolling his teammates. A lot of it is posted on his stories though. Maybe I'll start a thread at some point.

Also, I don't believe this Javier Mendez, DC, Belal and all the guys at AKA are somehow neglecting the rest of their gym students and champions and are propping up Khabib conspiracy.

There saying he's the best and they've never seen anything like him because he's a phenom. He was in Sambo and is in MMA.

That 29-0 record without getting scratched didn't happen by mistake.