What has BKFC taught us about boxing as a self defence art?

[StanClarker]

im not following you, you mean ludwig left because he was dissatisfied ?

What i read. Or was it a number of others? No into the high school clique who's in & out.

Seems a minor point I'll leave to the MMA statisticians.

The whole lead in where the head guys says they have had all these parts but now 'have it together.' Come on.

 

[shincheckin]

The hard part as always is understanding how everything works and how to adapt & transfer over WC techniques into MT. For one thing there's gloves, kinda different trying to trap/hold with puffy gloves on instead of bare hands...

yeah thats a good point as well. In MT we practice clinching with no gloves or bag gloves quite a bit. that topic has been debated as well, why practice no gloved or with bag gloves when you fight with gloves. I personally prefer practicing clinching with bag gloves on, similar grabbing abilit as a glove, smaller so easier to manuever while practicing, no injury from long nails, slip on better than velcro as velcro will scratch the face.

 

[StanClarker]

I would replace shotokan karate with TKD...........unfortunately a legit full contact kyokushin gym in the US is hard to find, or might not even exist?

Well, I'm only surveying styles. And what's legit in my locale and what's not I'll have to fathom.

Since spending time @ Sherdog striking, the local boxing gym is going up in stature. TKD I can't get past the hobbyist impression about the close school. That's my impressions for now. We have quite a number of karate schools, no kyokushin that I know off, except maybe I saw @ an MMA gym where I will not go.

Karate is more popular than boxing in terms of number of schools. Don't want a kiddie oriented outfit which is common offering here.

 

[shincheckin]

I went about half way and quit. Too generalized without addressing specifics of the curriculum.

I was going to post an English Goju karate vid on earlier posts, but lost it. No matter. Bottom line right now karate & all it's fanfare are too confusing & murky, without getting into peculiar traits of this style or that style karate.

This is what is great about Judo. Learn 1st eight throws which all share a base concept. Variations different aspect of that base. Boxing same. Lean 4 basic punches which all share a a basic concept. But with important variations technically and in their application. A science of sorts behind all.

On conditioning, boxing more emphasis on strength and cardio, Judo rounded fitness.

Climbing mountains & 2 + 2, save that for internet warriors.

all fighting styles are very different at the bottom of the mountain.........as we near the top of the mountain, the more and more similar they become. I have 19 yrs of experience in MT and boxed prior to that, not the best in the world but I feel that my experience is part of the reason why I am able to pick and find useful things in other martial arts that may be dismissed by others. its literally just applying the bruce lee concept of taking what is useful, rejecting what is useless, and adding what is uniquely your own.

WC for example, ill take what is useful (not much) and reject what is useless (most of it)

Even something as "nerdy" as tai chi can be beneficial towards fighting, it would give you good movement, body control, balance, and spacial awareness.

 

[StanClarker]

I would replace shotokan karate with TKD...........unfortunately a legit full contact kyokushin gym in the US is hard to find, or might not even exist?

The whole thing about these karate vids is that it shows so much activity which is staged, repetitious training of all kind of technique of all kinds. Fanfare? or fact?

TKD is popular here. Other karate styles are popular too. Here's what I don't like about TKD.
ATA Spring Nationals 2019 | LAS VEGAS, NV
8,265 views
•Mar 6, 2019


Arturo
1.75K subscribers

The haircut on the one kid alone tells you this is about showing off gymnastics and glitz. "Look at me go!!!" There's that aerius that criticized me for impracticality. This stuff is a hollywood demo reel for TKD Conquers the World.

Boxing is nuts & bolts work-ability. Judo is nuts & bolts practicality. No need to be a gym prodigy.

W.S.K.A. has it right.

 

[shincheckin]

Well, I'm only surveying styles. And what's legit in my locale and what's not I'll have to fathom.

Since spending time @ Sherdog striking, the local boxing gym is going up in stature. TKD I can't get past the hobbyist impression about the close school. That's my impressions for now. We have quite a number of karate schools, no kyokushin that I know off, except maybe I saw @ an MMA gym where I will no go.

Karate is more popular than boxing in terms of number of schools. Don't want a kiddie oriented outfit which is common offering here.

in the US that is all you will probably find for karate unfortunately. I would and will suggest MT, but that also can be difficult to find. The US has great boxing, there are many good boxing gyms in the US. Not sure what your interested in fighting, but boxing obviously, I wouldnt over look TKD, even if you just get hobbyist skill from it.

 

[StanClarker]

all fighting styles are very different at the bottom of the mountain.........as we near the top of the mountain, the more and more similar they become. I have 19 yrs of experience in MT and boxed prior to that, not the best in the world but I feel that my experience is part of the reason why I am able to pick and find useful things in other martial arts that may be dismissed by others. its literally just applying the bruce lee concept of taking what is useful, rejecting what is useless, and adding what is uniquely your own.

WC for example, ill take what is useful (not much) and reject what is useless (most of it)

Even something as "nerdy" as tai chi can be beneficial towards fighting, it would give you good movement, body control, balance, and spacial awareness.

Ok. But you've certainly done a better job than commercial MMA.

The Bruce Lee jeet thing always impressed me. Like I said about wing chun, however, does anyone here really define it? I believe Bruce Lee understood it. But is he the sole, reigning authority? Me, just not interested in this esoteric kind of martial stuff.

Judo - Boxing - Karate (down road) impress as tangible, workable arts which fit my character.

 

[shincheckin]

The whole thing about these karate vids is that it shows so much activity which is staged, repetitious training of all kind of technique of all kinds. Fanfare? or fact?

TKD is popular here. Other karate styles are popular too. Here's what I don't like about TKD.
ATA Spring Nationals 2019 | LAS VEGAS, NV
8,265 views
•Mar 6, 2019


Arturo
1.75K subscribers

The haircut on the one kid alone tells you this is about showing off gymnastics and glitz. "Look at me go!!!" There's that aerius that criticized me for impracticality. This stuff is a hollywood demo reel for TKD Conquers the World.

Boxing is nuts & bolts work-ability. Judo is nuts & bolts practicality. No need to be a gym prodigy.

W.S.K.A. has it right.

i didnt see anything wrong with the sparring and skills those youngsters were building

 

[StanClarker]

in the US that is all you will probably find for karate unfortunately. I would and will suggest MT, but that also can be difficult to find. The US has great boxing, there are many good boxing gyms in the US. Not sure what your interested in fighting, but boxing obviously, I wouldnt over look TKD, even if you just get hobbyist skill from it.

I'll look at your site,,, sometime later. Boxing program sticks out now.

I think boxing and judo fit together too. One is the natural enemy of the other, artistically what I can garner. A cool match up and two different approaches.

 

[StanClarker]

i didnt see anything wrong with the sparring and skills those youngsters were building

It's the whole schmeelll. Something's wrong by my book. Which is just being written.

Obviously, they agree with you.

 

[shincheckin]

Ok. But you've certainly done a better job than commercial MMA.

The Bruce Lee jeet thing always impressed me. Like I said about wing chun, however, does anyone here really define it? I believe Bruce Lee understood it. But is he the sole, reigning authority? Me, just not interested in this esoteric kind of martial stuff.

Judo - Boxing - Karate (down road) impress as tangible, workable arts which fit my character.

Ip Man I beleive, but hes dead so whos is the modern day WC master? Probably someone thats nevery actually USED any of it.

Im a fan of Bruce Lees philosophies, JKD not so much, apply his concept to JKD as well, take whats usefull reject whats useless.

 

[StanClarker]

Ip Man I beleive, but hes dead so whos is the modern day WC master? Probably someone thats nevery actually USED any of it.

Yeah, this is a topic that perpetuates here. In the deep freeze for me.

Im a fan of Bruce Lees philosophies, JKD not so much, apply his concept to JKD as well, take whats usefull reject whats useless.

I just got criticized for adhering to martial philosophy. These generalities are useful in that they point to actual workings, handling difficult environments and situations.

He (&you) talk about, '"take what's useful and reject what's useless...." I hear this in MMA all the time, this can-vocation. Truth is, watch these MMA competitors flub & stub themselves right & left. On what basis did they make their decisions? That Team Alpha Male guy with the ball cap on backwards, locks hanging out of his hat... saying there's a lot of moving parts... saying nothing.

Boxing summary - religious conditioning + good strong basic technique. 4 punches.
Judo summary - giving way + rounded conditioning. Gives way through a series of throws.

Now devil is in details, not presuming you know what is correct and what isn't, 'cause you got big muscles or can jump around really well.

 

[StanClarker]

The main downfall of Kyokushin fighters who compete in the Knockdown ruleset (traditional ruleset bare knuckle with no hand strikes to the head) is that they need time adjusting with some western boxing when transitioning to sports like Kickboxing. Then they can combine that with their kicking and kneeing skills + their great body conditioning and mental toughness.

You know, this is a similar conclusion I came to even when initially viewing kyokushin competition. Like what technique? Theres' flashes of nice kicks, but the punching looks like alternating robot hooks to the body over & over. Very bad.

Why would anyone formula a karate style that abandons nearly all semblance of the technical end of what karate proposes. Makes no sense. Other than appeal to the, "Let's bang crowd."

Making them fight in a ruleset where they can't use kicks or knees and have to rely on boxing skills and having someone attack them with mostly head punches is basically the thing they are the least trained for. This doesn't mean they can't adapt for it, but the transition is not as smooth as for a pure boxer for instance. You're also taking away some of their key skills in the process such as kicks.

I know this is a forum, but to me, you're doing nothing but reinventing the wheel (under the guise of boxing). Karate has way more hand technique than boxing, as per quick vid below. This isolation of punching sounds like coaches forcing their end product on an otherwise broad art. With it's own weaknesses and particulars of course.
Kihon du Kyokushin
16,064 views
•Apr 12, 2016


Eglantine Casteran
159 subscribers

Les mouvements du Kihon du Kyokushin. En 17 minutes, pratiquez et révisez votre kihon de Karate chambly - Marieville. La traduction des mouvements en français est incluse. Vous êtes sur le chemin de la ceinture noire! Osu!

Not trying to impress Kyokushin, just pointing out there's way more in the class training than carries over to the full contact kumite form. Unanswered questions.

Being used to defend against head kicks is not the same at all as head punches, it's not the same type of defense, blocks, dodge etc. The problem with Kyokushin fighters isn't with their punching ability, they can punch people bare knuckle in the head no problem, but the problem is with the defence against head punches.

I saw just that in the kumite examples I posted where one permitted contact to the head and another didn't. This major lapse however, was also present in the W.S.K.A. kumite. As well as by the recent MMA fighter contests I posted. No shortage of poor head defense no matter what the apparent striking style.

My feeling is you carry bias against karate and plug for boxing. I will say I have recently seen some better attention to head defense in the better boxing sparring vids here (which I have noted). But they didn't thrill in more cases than one.

The hand conditioning in Kyokushin is not done with Makiwara by the way, that's a pretty rare thing in Kyokushin and more of a Goju Ryu thing or other Karate styles. The hand conditioning in Kyokushin is mostly done with knuckle pushups, punching the pads and bags bare knuckle and sparring bare knuckle. Sure some dojos may have a Makiwara or punch on other hard things, but that's not the norm.

Huh. This stands as a stark departure from boxing. A plus for greater applicability among different fighting circumstances.

We have a parallel concept of conditioning the body for falling in judo, which I touched on during my first posts.

The footwork in Kyokushin is better than most people think, you don't see much of it in Knockdown tournaments, but a lot of them have good footwork especially when they do other rulesets like clicker (semi contact point scoring with head punches).

The quick vid picks and others I've browsed over mirrors your tournament comment. They kinda walk around, bounce around a bit all over. No apparent logic.

My first blush criticism about kyokushin is that the emphasis or characteristic of contact sparring / competition, overshadows the basic training. Not that this doesn't happen in say boxing, but an erroneous spotlight on fighting seems very large.

Which goes to reinforce the practical advantage of boxing of having a narrow set of four punches which one can put more effort into mastering... as opposed to all that technical fanfare karate carries around. Core skills over covering the world or attempting too.

ADD: But the latter isn't an excuse to drop or morph kyokushin into something MMA. Again, we see commonplace examples, even the norm, of mediocre to ineffective striking in MMA because the competitors simply didn't learn to box basics well. The kyokushin kumite syndrome. BK a boxing related offender, as one poster said.

 

[SandisLL]

My first blush criticism about kyokushin is that the emphasis or characteristic of contact sparring / competition, overshadows the basic training.

Appears that you never had been in serious Kyokushin dojo.
You don't know difference between Kyokushin grading Curriculum and their kumite rules.
No offence, you can visit their dojo and ask. I too didn't knew but I asked.
Usually they gladly provide also tables with pshysical tests requirements for belt levels, papers about clicker and their kumite rules.

 

[StanClarker]

Just popped in. This has been a great thread overall, constrasting striking styles against BK.

Appears that you never had been in serious Kyokushin dojo.

Nope. Said so. I'm observing a trend of answers being tangential to my comments.

You don't know difference between Kyokushin grading Curriculum and their kumite rules.

Huh. Again tangential. I'm just looking into this. I talked about the difference. Restating that way you do is just rehashing.

No offence, you can visit their dojo and ask. I too didn't knew but I asked.

Again, this style isn't around in my town. But you're right in that I have to go into that TKD school nearby. Sometime. Some of these outfits allow for trial lessons. Which, would make a good time to take the questions I have collected by participating in TSF. Good point.

Usually they gladly provide also tables with pshysical tests requirements for belt levels, papers about clicker and their kumite rules.

We don't have a manual @ our Judo dojo. They are very good at laying out the program though in class. I'll check into a manual when (&if) I stop @ a karate school. The boxing program outline posted in the boxing training online thread is what I will be working through now. It's well done from what I can see. And way more than an introduction, which is where I'm presently at.

 

[Blake_UK]

An interesting thread with lots of good points being made.

In terms of non-boxers competing in BKFC they will clearly be at a disadvantage as BKFC is basically boxing rules without gloves on. Yes tactics are different - more straight punches and body shots, less effective cover ups etc - but 'dirty' moves like hammerfists and throat strikes are not allowed so any advantage FMA/WC may have in that sense are moot. In my experience more traditional stand up style arts like karate are far to rigid in their stances and linear in their movements and are easier to move around using superior boxing footwork. Head movement is not something TMAs are known for (and neither is MMA or even MT/kickboxing to the same extent). Karate is especially bad for that - we have a couple in our MT class and whilst their kicks are powerful and accurate their hand and body movements are poor. Even a big slow guy like me can dance around them - especially in hands only sparring.

In terms of 'the streets' first off the winner is usually the guy who actually wants/enjoys violence and doesn't care/consider the consequences - most of the 'hardest' blokes I've known are basically aggressive arseholes. Could they beat an elite boxer/MMA fighter no but they will beat 95% of ordinary people. You have to be willing to strike hard and fast, suck up any pain and keep fighting until the threat is neutralized. A lot of training (in all combat arts) neglects this.
Beyond that it goes back to the basics of 'aliveness' training and sparring along with being fit and strong. You have to hit and be hit. Boxing is again one of if not the best for that along with MT or any proper full contact kickboxing (pref with knees/elbows/clinches); after that if you can find it a good full contact TMA. A lot is down to the individual school - its rare to find a mickey mouse boxing club but that can't be said for other arts.

Its also true that a reasonable level of proficiency can be achieved a lot quicker in boxing than most other MAs (and often comparatively cheaply). For that reason alone it makes a great base art to start with in terms of self defence.

And yes you need to have both a striking and a grappling art in your repertoire - Judo, wrestling, BJJ etc. No one art is the ultimate (and that includes MMA). Virtually all arts have something to give but some have more than others.

 

[Tayski]

You know, this is a similar conclusion I came to even when initially viewing kyokushin competition. Like what technique? Theres' flashes of nice kicks, but the punching looks like alternating robot hooks to the body over & over. Very bad.

Why would anyone formula a karate style that abandons nearly all semblance of the technical end of what karate proposes. Makes no sense. Other than appeal to the, "Let's bang crowd."


I know this is a forum, but to me, you're doing nothing but reinventing the wheel (under the guise of boxing). Karate has way more hand technique than boxing, as per quick vid below. This isolation of punching sounds like coaches forcing their end product on an otherwise broad art. With it's own weaknesses and particulars of course.
Kihon du Kyokushin
16,064 views
•Apr 12, 2016


Eglantine Casteran
159 subscribers

Les mouvements du Kihon du Kyokushin. En 17 minutes, pratiquez et révisez votre kihon de Karate chambly - Marieville. La traduction des mouvements en français est incluse. Vous êtes sur le chemin de la ceinture noire! Osu!

Not trying to impress Kyokushin, just pointing out there's way more in the class training than carries over to the full contact kumite form. Unanswered questions.


I saw just that in the kumite examples I posted where one permitted contact to the head and another didn't. This major lapse however, was also present in the W.S.K.A. kumite. As well as by the recent MMA fighter contests I posted. No shortage of poor head defense no matter what the apparent striking style.

My feeling is you carry bias against karate and plug for boxing. I will say I have recently seen some better attention to head defense in the better boxing sparring vids here (which I have noted). But they didn't thrill in more cases than one.


Huh. This stands as a stark departure from boxing. A plus for greater applicability among different fighting circumstances.

We have a parallel concept of conditioning the body for falling in judo, which I touched on during my first posts.


The quick vid picks and others I've browsed over mirrors your tournament comment. They kinda walk around, bounce around a bit all over. No apparent logic.

My first blush criticism about kyokushin is that the emphasis or characteristic of contact sparring / competition, overshadows the basic training. Not that this doesn't happen in say boxing, but an erroneous spotlight on fighting seems very large.

Which goes to reinforce the practical advantage of boxing of having a narrow set of four punches which one can put more effort into mastering... as opposed to all that technical fanfare karate carries around. Core skills over covering the world or attempting too.

ADD: But the latter isn't an excuse to drop or morph kyokushin into something MMA. Again, we see commonplace examples, even the norm, of mediocre to ineffective striking in MMA because the competitors simply didn't learn to box basics well. The kyokushin kumite syndrome. BK a boxing related offender, as one poster said.

I'll be honest I only skipped through your post, too much to read and not sure where you were trying to go with this.

One thing I'll address though, is when you say that I "carry a bias against karate and plug for boxing", you're probably not aware that my background is Karate, including 5+ years of Shotokan, then later on 5+ years of training and competing in Kyokushin. Why would I have a bias against an art that I trained for 10+ years?

However, you'd be a fool to think that the basic training of Karate and Kihon are real tools for fighting. They have their own benefits, but many of the techniques taught in Kihon are not practical (be it strikes or blocks btw), and they do not help you in generating power or putting them in context. Kata doesn't help that much either, again it has its benefits but it's not what will make you a better fighter. Sparring (Kumite) is where you have a test environment to put those techniques you learn in Kihon and Kata into practice, and this is where a lot of the Karate fluff disappears.

You say Karate has more hand techniques than boxing, but remember when Bruce Lee said "I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times.". Well this is exactly how Karate can be at times, way too many techniques including many which are not practical, and not enough of a focus on real combat. Even with the flaws that Kyokushin has in some aspect because of the focus on Kumite and competition, I pick the Kyokushin fighter over the WKF point-scoring karateka any day of the week.

 

[StanClarker]

An interesting thread with lots of good points being made.

This thread has widened my horizons.

• In terms of non-boxers competing in BKFC they will clearly be at a disadvantage as BKFC is basically boxing rules without gloves on.
• Yes tactics are different - more straight punches and body shots, less effective cover ups etc - but 'dirty' moves like hammerfists and throat strikes are not allowed so any advantage FMA/WC may have in that sense are moot.
• In my experience more traditional stand up style arts like karate are far to rigid in their stances and linear in their movements and are easier to move around using superior boxing footwork.
• Head movement is not something TMAs are known for (and neither is MMA or even MT/kickboxing to the same extent). Karate is especially bad for that - we have a couple in our MT class and whilst their kicks are powerful and accurate their hand and body movements are poor. Even a big slow guy like me can dance around them - especially in hands only sparring.

Point 1. So clear to me. And with the Boxing champion vs. MMA champions crossover matches.
Point 2. Don't know why we keep shooting down wing chun here. Guess it's a fetish w MMA. The point about adapting for no gloves makes a universal challenge anytime boxing moves outside of boxing. I'm sure there a boxing for self defense videos.s
Point 3. The karate training remains an enigma. The videos of bad karate classes would outnumber the bad MMA classes, TBH. But this is too stereotyped. When one looks at that regional W.S.K.A. 2017 tournament, the karate players don't have any trouble moving quickly & decisively. Does it always work;? clearly not which is also shown.
Point 4. l have to agree with my initial review. Karate competition comes across as too narrow in it's approach... commonly. But, that is also offset by their sudden, explosive precision technique which may include rapid combinations.

In terms of 'the streets' first off the winner is usually the guy who actually wants/enjoys violence and doesn't care/consider the consequences - most of the 'hardest' blokes I've known are basically aggressive arseholes. Could they beat an elite boxer/MMA fighter no but they will beat 95% of ordinary people. You have to be willing to strike hard and fast, suck up any pain and keep fighting until the threat is neutralized. A lot of training (in all combat arts) neglects this.

As a generalization, I think most all would agree.

Beyond that it goes back to the basics of 'aliveness' training and sparring along with being fit and strong. You have to hit and be hit. Boxing is again one of if not the best for that along with MT or any proper full contact kickboxing (pref with knees/elbows/clinches); after that if you can find it a good full contact TMA. A lot is down to the individual school - its rare to find a mickey mouse boxing club but that can't be said for other arts.

This is a characteristic of boxing which certainly addresses the shrinking violet types. What is even more amazing, all this constant of contact sparring, is that the gals in the 30-day boxing challenge video all expressed a more positive view of themselves and boost in confidence about defending themselves. WITHOUT SPARRING. I did not overlook that.

Its also true that a reasonable level of proficiency can be achieved a lot quicker in boxing than most other MAs (and often comparatively cheaply). For that reason alone it makes a great base art to start with in terms of self defence.

I'm convinced.

And yes you need to have both a striking and a grappling art in your repertoire - Judo, wrestling, BJJ etc. No one art is the ultimate (and that includes MMA). Virtually all arts have something to give but some have more than others.

A lesson of MMA, a good philosophical one.

 

[StanClarker]

I'll be honest I only skipped through your post, too much to read and not sure where you were trying to go with this.

Meandering through the striking maze.

One thing I'll address though, is when you say that I "carry a bias against karate and plug for boxing", you're probably not aware that my background is Karate, including 5+ years of Shotokan, then later on 5+ years of training and competing in Kyokushin. Why would I have a bias against an art that I trained for 10+ years?

You trained karate and have a certain bias about it's structure & applicability. Or, we could say informed opinion.

We could pull in a W.S.K.A official for a rebuttal witness.

However, you'd be a fool to think that the basic training of Karate and Kihon are real tools for fighting. They have their own benefits, but many of the techniques taught in Kihon are not practical (be it strikes or blocks btw), and they do not help you in generating power or putting them in context. Kata doesn't help that much either, again it has its benefits but it's not what will make you a better fighter. Sparring (Kumite) is where you have a test environment to put those techniques you learn in Kihon and Kata into practice, and this is where a lot of the Karate fluff disappears.

There is a schism between karate training and karate kumite. Most certainly. Most noticeable with Kyokushin.

You say you have many years experience in certain karate styles. Would more research into the origins & history of karate shed light? BTW, I no interest in a karate research project myself. I'm limiting myself to comparing & contrasting Kyokushin & Shotokan. Review only.

You say Karate has more hand techniques than boxing, but remember when Bruce Lee said "I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times.".

This is where I say your bias against karate comes in. I see the karate class vids engaging in {quote} endless {quote} repetitions. Unlike MMA which does drills then plays around sparring.

Well this is exactly how Karate can be at times, way too many techniques including many which are not practical, and not enough of a focus on real combat.

This can be a concern; is a concern for me @ the moment.

Even with the flaws that Kyokushin has in some aspect because of the focus on Kumite and competition, I pick the Kyokushin fighter over the WKF point-scoring karateka any day of the week.

I find the reverse. The W.S.K.A. over Kyokushin. But really this is a better way of thinking about this than criticizing the obvious. I'm getting the sense that kata addresses this issue. The style and the competitors are so serious about it. Oh well, who knows for now.

Remember. Those boxing challenge gals really felt the stress of just measuring up to being in the boxing gym regularly for 30 days. Quite a lesson in that alone.

 

[Blake_UK]

This thread has widened my horizons.


Point 1. So clear to me. And with the Boxing champion vs. MMA champions crossover matches.
Point 2. Don't know why we keep shooting down wing chun here. Guess it's a fetish w MMA. The point about adapting for no gloves makes a universal challenge anytime boxing moves outside of boxing. I'm sure there a boxing for self defense videos.s
Point 3. The karate training remains an enigma. The videos of bad karate classes would outnumber the bad MMA classes, TBH. But this is too stereotyped. When one looks at that regional W.S.K.A. 2017 tournament, the karate players don't have any trouble moving quickly & decisively. Does it always work;? clearly not which is also shown.
Point 4. l have to agree with my initial review. Karate competition comes across as too narrow in it's approach... commonly. But, that is also offset by their sudden, explosive precision technique which may include rapid combinations.



As a generalization, I think most all would agree.


This is a characteristic of boxing which certainly addresses the shrinking violet types. What is even more amazing, all this constant of contact sparring, is that the gals in the 30-day boxing challenge video all expressed a more positive view of themselves and boost in confidence about defending themselves. WITHOUT SPARRING. I did not overlook that.


I'm convinced.


A lesson of MMA, a good philosophical one.

Point 2. Don't know why we keep shooting down wing chun here. Guess it's a fetish w MMA.

To be fair I have a soft spot for Wing Chun and think it gets an unfair bashing on here in general. Yes bad Kung Fu is terrible (and I suppose historically has a higher proportion of annoying mystical BS attached) but good parred down WC/JKD with the right coach is legit. I trained for a few months at a Sanshou/Sanda club and whilst I would still choose MT over it I was impressed tbh.

Point 3. The karate training remains an enigma. The videos of bad karate classes would outnumber the bad MMA classes, TBH. But this is too stereotyped.

I think Karate more than any other TMA suffers from the McDojo problem.

When one looks at that regional W.S.K.A. 2017 tournament, the karate players don't have any trouble moving quickly & decisively

I'm not knocking Karate per se - I love cross training and truly believe in taking different ideas from different places. There are some very good Karate/TKD guys and athleticism/fitness/strength will always shine but I just think that its been shown that overall MT is the most effective full striking art and boxing is the best for punches/footwork.

What is even more amazing, all this constant of contact sparring, is that the gals in the 30-day boxing challenge video all expressed a more positive view of themselves and boost in confidence about defending themselves. WITHOUT SPARRING.

Exercise of any form is a positive in itself.
I'm assuming they did a lot of pad and bag work as well - if you aren't sparring you have to at least hit stuff. One thing I've never understood about Kata based systems is that hitting things really gets the stress out after a long day. Why wouldn't you do it?