What has BKFC taught us about boxing as a self defence art?

[TheMaster]

Seems that bareknuckle is a good testing ground for the art 'as a self defence style' and how well it translates when the gloves are off.



The other thing that comes to mind is palm heels are legit without gloves (think Bas Rutten).

I'm not just referring to Malinaggi being embarrassed by a journey man and looking panicked when clinched by Lobov, even tho only fists were allowed.

I actually would love to see a proper, trained and conditioned Wing Chun guy do BK, I think it can work well under BKFC rules.

Or a top level Kyokushinkai enter would smash guys also I think.

So what are thoughts on how the 'sweet science' looks through the lens of BK when the gloves are off?

 

[ironkhan57]

I really dont get why you always bring wing chun into everything. You know the world doesnt revolve around wing chun right?

Man we got karatekas on here, boxere, kickboxers, mma fighters, thai fighters coming on here not monopolizing the fucking conversation to is wing chun effective or is it not? Like bro get a life. And stop worrying about wing chuns reputation in the combat sports world.

I use to want to see capoeira fighters fuck up everybody. But now i just dont give a fuck because if mma fighters use a little bit capoeira, and its effective i like that fighter. Doesnt mean i cry online about wing chun being underrated or try to talk about its effectiveness.

 

[Taco Loco]

Might be better to mix it up, that's what.

 

[AndyMaBobs]

Seems that bareknuckle is a good testing ground for the art 'as a self defence style' and how well it translates when the gloves are off.



The other thing that comes to mind is palm heels are legit without gloves (think Bas Rutten).

I'm not just referring to Malinaggi being embarrassed by a journey man and looking panicked when clinched by Lobov, even tho only fists were allowed.

I actually would love to see a proper, trained and conditioned Wing Chun guy do BK, I think it can work well over pure boxing under BKFC rules.

So what are thoughts on how the 'sweet science' looks through the lens of BK when the gloves are off?

Whenever I have seen a wing chun artist fight, I've always seen them swarm and advance on a straight line. Which leads me to believe they would just get pivoted around. Is that a staple thing for Wing Chun's methodology, or is that just what I have seen?

 

[thehighking]

It doesn't matter what discipline a fighter uses, it matters how good they are at utilising their skills

 

[TheMaster]

I really dont get why you always bring wing chun into everything. You know the world doesnt revolve around wing chun right?

Man we got karatekas on here, boxere, kickboxers, mma fighters, thai fighters coming on here not monopolizing the fucking conversation to is wing chun effective or is it not? Like bro get a life. And stop worrying about wing chuns reputation in the combat sports world.

I use to want to see capoeira fighters fuck up everybody. But now i just dont give a fuck because if mma fighters use a little bit capoeira, and its effective i like that fighter. Doesnt mean i cry online about wing chun being underrated or try to talk about its effectiveness.

Why is it I always see you on any threads whenever WC is mentioned? This thread isnt about WC in any case so dont try to make it about that. If you dont like the conversation son, your free to get lost.
Its like you have tourettes syndrome and when you see anyone mention Wing Chun you have to spew some garbage.

You need to get a life, and stop bringing your little trash opinions in here every time u see the words WC on any thread.

It doesn't matter what discipline a fighter uses, it matters how good they are at utilising their skills

I think this is what interesting about BKFC.
It puts the 'sweet science ' as just one style to the test against any one who wants to fist fight.

'MMA' type dirty boxing is in there also which is closer in alot of ways.
Kyokushin would be great, if they can get used to headshots.

But specifically, based on what we have seen so far what are the shortcomings of traditional boxing that have been exposed and in what ways for the bareknuckle environment and by extension for the noble art of self defence?

 

[Tayski]

Seems that bareknuckle is a good testing ground for the art 'as a self defence style' and how well it translates when the gloves are off.



The other thing that comes to mind is palm heels are legit without gloves (think Bas Rutten).

I'm not just referring to Malinaggi being embarrassed by a journey man and looking panicked when clinched by Lobov, even tho only fists were allowed.

I actually would love to see a proper, trained and conditioned Wing Chun guy do BK, I think it can work well over pure boxing under BKFC rules.

Or a top level Kyokushinkai enter would smash guys also I think.

So what are thoughts on how the 'sweet science' looks through the lens of BK when the gloves are off?

Why do people always have to compare combat sports to "self defence" or "the streets"?
It's a sport, in a sporting environment aka a ring, with rules, rounds, a referee and doctors. If you think aggression and violence out there resembles BKFC fights you're delusional.

Now if you mean by that that BKFC is a good way for "self defence arts" (like they like to call themselves) to test their skills, then again you're misguided. In this sport context where only punches are allowed and there are no gloves, those who will succeed in it are fighters (not self defence specialists) and more specifically fighters who are used to punching and defending against punches and those who tend to fight in small or no gloves. Basically the best candidates for this are Irish travellers, boxers, mma fighters and potentially some kickboxers or Lethwei fighters. I don't even think this sport is suited for Kyokushin Karatekas or Nak Muays, and I say that as someone who comes from both those disciplines.

 

[thehighking]

Why is it I always see you on any threads whenever WC is mentioned? This thread isnt about WC in any case so dont try to make it about that. If you dont like the conversation son, your free to get lost.
Its like you have tourettes syndrome and when you see anyone mention Wing Chun you have to spew some garbage.

You need to get a life, and stop bringing your little trash opinions in here every time u see the words WC on any thread.



I think this is what interesting about BKFC.
It puts the 'sweet science ' as just one style to the test against any one who wants to fist fight.

'MMA' type dirty boxing is in there also which is closer in alot of ways.
Kyokushin would be great, if they can get used to headshots.

But specifically, based on what we have seen so far what are the shortcomings of traditional boxing that have been exposed and in what ways for the bareknuckle environment and by extension for the noble art of self defence?

Well to fair everyone who trains for BK is training boxing. A wing chun or karate style fighter who wants to compete in BK will practice their boxing skills because it essentially is boxing without gloves. Yes good point about dirty boxing in MMA though there are definitely some skills there that strict boxers are not aware of or haven't practiced

 

[TheMaster]

Why do people always have to compare combat sports to "self defence" or "the streets"?
It's a sport, in a sporting environment aka a ring, with rules, rounds, a referee and doctors. If you think aggression and violence out there resembles BKFC fights you're delusional.

Now if you mean by that that BKFC is a good way for "self defence arts" (like they like to call themselves) to test their skills, then again you're misguided. In this sport context where only punches are allowed and there are no gloves, those who will succeed in it are fighters (not self defence specialists) and more specifically fighters who are used to punching and defending against punches and those who tend to fight in small or no gloves. Basically the best candidates for this are Irish travellers, boxers, mma fighters and potentially some kickboxers or Lethwei fighters. I don't even think this sport is suited for Kyokushin Karatekas or Nak Muays, and I say that as someone who comes from both those disciplines.

Probably because all the arts used in 'combat sports' were designed for real combat or derived from such arts and adapted for the ring. The comparison is natural.

For those interested, BKFC can show us alot about how well boxing techniques fare in real world situations. Yes its not an exact simulation but no sport is.
But it is an interesting question for martial artists.

Of course it is a good ground, like mma is in other ways, for seeing whats likely to work in a real situation.

Like, how does your punching action hold up bareknuckle?
Does your guard still block punches or jeed adapting?
Does footwork and combinationa change?

Why is it almost all straight punches or uppercuts in close range /clinch, and seldom hooks compared to standard boxing? (risk of damaging hands and wrist is more in my view)

 

[ImmigrantMentality]

You act like boxing has been exposed in real world situations just because malignaggi got beat. An elite boxer against an elite fighter from another sport would still be pretty easy money in a bkb match

 

[ironkhan57]

Why is it I always see you on any threads whenever WC is mentioned? This thread isnt about WC in any case so dont try to make it about that. If you dont like the conversation son, your free to get lost.
Its like you have tourettes syndrome and when you see anyone mention Wing Chun you have to spew some garbage.

You need to get a life, and stop bringing your little trash opinions in here every time u see the words WC on any thread.



I think this is what interesting about BKFC.
It puts the 'sweet science ' as just one style to the test against any one who wants to fist fight.

'MMA' type dirty boxing is in there also which is closer in alot of ways.
Kyokushin would be great, if they can get used to headshots.

But specifically, based on what we have seen so far what are the shortcomings of traditional boxing that have been exposed and in what ways for the bareknuckle environment and by extension for the noble art of self defence?

I could just quote your OP to the part where you said something about do you think we'll ever see a good wing chun guy in there. Something like that but your fake hypocritical ass edited that whole post.

So yes get a life. and no i got one. And i got a girl i go to for pussy when she call me, to please that nice thick ass.

 

[MixMartialFarts]

I havent watched much Bare knuckle boxing....do they use palm strikes a lot?

Also, don't they break their hands a lot?

 

[Sensei Student]

Whenever I have seen a wing chun artist fight, I've always seen them swarm and advance on a straight line. Which leads me to believe they would just get pivoted around. Is that a staple thing for Wing Chun's methodology, or is that just what I have seen?

Traditional martial arts especially Chinese is all about having a stable stance. Little to no foot work at all. A few have you moving in a circle but most are about the horse stance. So maybe that's why you see them not moving much or only moving in a straight line.

It is already known that if you punch someone's head, you're going to break your hands. That's why you strike with your palm.

I've sparred with WC practitioners with gloves. It still work but not as good. The problem with WC and other traditional martial arts is that they tend to fold if you just swarm them. If you throw 1 or 2 shots that's when they're confident in countering you. WC is all about parrying, but if you're too fast then they can't parry everything and tend to get overwhelmed. Boxing is still king in BKFC, it's basically boxing without gloves.

I do like the fact that in BKFC you can't hide behind gloves so its much more realistic but as you can see how bloody and brutal it is and why gloves were implemented in the first place.

 

[Tayski]

Probably because all the arts used in 'combat sports' were designed for real combat or derived from such arts and adapted for the ring. The comparison is natural.

For those interested, BKFC can show us alot about how well boxing techniques fare in real world situations. Yes its not an exact simulation but no sport is.
But it is an interesting question for martial artists.

Of course it is a good ground, like mma is in other ways, for seeing whats likely to work in a real situation.

Like, how does your punching action hold up bareknuckle?
Does your guard still block punches or jeed adapting?
Does footwork and combinationa change?

Why is it almost all straight punches or uppercuts in close range /clinch, and seldom hooks compared to standard boxing? (risk of damaging hands and wrist is more in my view)

Except those are sports not warfare. Even in antique Greece boxing and wrestling were sports and for entertainment, not for war.
Bare knuckle boxing in a ring isn't "real world situations" either, so just stop already.

 

[ironkhan57]

I just want to say, when i visited my dads store in new jeresy me and one of his workers who is mexican, startes fucking around, so he was throwing punches and i just elbowed all of his punches except one. So idk if BKFC allows blocking punches with elbows, but i would love to just fight a bare knuckle fight, just so i can see if i can actually hurt them punches with my elbows.


Cause i know that with mma gloves on or boxing gloves on them elbows will not be hurting them fist.

 

[JohnPJones]

Probably because all the arts used in 'combat sports' were designed for real combat or derived from such arts and adapted for the ring. The comparison is natural.

For those interested, BKFC can show us alot about how well boxing techniques fare in real world situations. Yes its not an exact simulation but no sport is.
But it is an interesting question for martial artists.

Of course it is a good ground, like mma is in other ways, for seeing whats likely to work in a real situation.

Like, how does your punching action hold up bareknuckle?
Does your guard still block punches or jeed adapting?
Does footwork and combinationa change?

Why is it almost all straight punches or uppercuts in close range /clinch, and seldom hooks compared to standard boxing? (risk of damaging hands and wrist is more in my view)

how does bareknuckle show us how techniques will fare in the real world any better than boxing or MMA?

just about the only thing it will show is if hand conditioning like the okinawans do is really super important for bareknuckle fighting like in real life. is that what you mean?

 

[tekkenfan]

You act like boxing has been exposed in real world situations just because malignaggi got beat. An elite boxer against an elite fighter from another sport would still be pretty easy money in a bkb match

the average mma "fan" today who doesnt train thinks boxing sucks due to one fight vs lobov remember how they were acting at conor going that long and "winning" on the score cards lol

 

[tekkenfan]

tbh if you are a trained fighter and u dont know if you can defend yourself in the street you deserve to get beaten up lol

 

[TheMaster]

how does bareknuckle show us how techniques will fare in the real world any better than boxing or MMA?

just about the only thing it will show is if hand conditioning like the okinawans do is really super important for bareknuckle fighting like in real life. is that what you mean?

Hand conditioning yes
Picking your shots more is required, you cant swing as wildly and get away with it like in boxing or mma
How strategy changes with this, with cuts etc.
How the body shots will hurt alot more
Clinch fighting without gloves is different

There are alot of things different that BK can show for real world beyond mma or boxing.

Old school Vale Tudo also good to show this as they fought bare knuckle
But BK specifically shows how boxing or empty hand punching holds up or has to be modified.

 

[JohnPJones]

Hand conditioning yes
Picking your shots more is required, you cant swing as wildly and get away with it like in boxing or mma
How strategy changes with this, with cuts etc.
How the body shots will hurt alot more
Clinch fighting without gloves is different

There are alot of things different that BK can show for real world beyond mma or boxing.

Old school Vale Tudo also good to show this as they fought bare knuckle
But BK specifically shows how boxing or empty hand punching holds up or has to be modified.

I think you’re putting too much weight on this bro