What has BKFC taught us about boxing as a self defence art?

[Woldog]

So what exactly is your point?
Let's take the last fight Dat Nguyen vs Abdiel Valasquez.
A former pro boxer vs an MMA fighter.
Why is it some kind of achievement for a pro boxer to beat an mma fighter in a BK fist fight?
I saw two guys swinging, the pro boxer was much crisper and got a nice KO.

But...he still got dropped in the first round with an uppercut.
Incidently, the 'pull down neck and uppercut' is trained alot in WC also it is a standard technique so it was nice to see it pulled off.

They both took damage, did you see Nguyen's face afterward.
The impression I get is that boxers are not 'dominating and huniliating' their opponents in BKFC at all. They are winning, but they are proving to be very beatable also and especially vulnerable to the clinch striking. In all, BK seems to act somewhat as an 'equaliazer' that is scrappy guys who wouldn't be able to hold a candle to guys in a boxing ring are being competetive with them in BK which is why it is interesting and a clear sign it is a different game.

I feel like BK isn't a sport anyone dominates unless they don't give a fuck about their hands, I feel a guy like Mark Hunt would dominate in BK. But fighting without any glove is just one missed shot away from a fractured hand.

 

[rmongler]

How is this thread still alive.

 

[ironkhan57]

How is this thread still alive.

@TheMaster helps everybody get through the day thats how.

 

[TheMaster]

@TheMaster helps everybody get through the day thats how.

No my friend, that would be you. Help others to reminisce how they used to think when they were in their early youth before entering the adult world.

I feel like BK isn't a sport anyone dominates unless they don't give a fuck about their hands, I feel a guy like Mark Hunt would dominate in BK. But fighting without any glove is just one missed shot away from a fractured hand.

Hunt would be brutal. It is a half joke that Samoans have hard heads (was a frequent parody in pro wresting) but can you imagine trying to stop that guy with barefist punches.

Also back to the original threads premise, I have been surprised at how bad pro boxers have looked in the clinch in BK. They have generally got pieced up and hurt bad or dropped, looking like fish out of water. I suppose the rule change plus no gloves makes them vulnerable and unprepared. Definitely was not aware this was such a deficiency in boxing as translates to BK and self defence scenarios.

 

[ironkhan57]

No my friend, that would be you. Help others to reminisce how they used to think when they were in their early youth before entering the adult world.



Hunt would be brutal. It is a half joke that Samoans have hard heads (was a frequent parody in pro wresting) but can you imagine trying to stop that guy with barefist punches.

Also back to the original threads premise, I have been surprised at how bad pro boxers have looked in the clinch in BK. They have generally got pieced up and hurt bad or dropped, looking like fish out of water. I suppose the rule change plus no gloves makes them vulnerable and unprepared. Definitely was not aware this was such a deficiency in boxing as translates to BK and self defence scenarios.

Nope thats you, KS and FT and spacetime. And whoever else logged on just to troll or accuse everybody of ignorance. Im actually more mature then a lot of ppl my age. But WC for the win right?

 

[Woldog]

No my friend, that would be you. Help others to reminisce how they used to think when they were in their early youth before entering the adult world.



Hunt would be brutal. It is a half joke that Samoans have hard heads (was a frequent parody in pro wresting) but can you imagine trying to stop that guy with barefist punches.

Also back to the original threads premise, I have been surprised at how bad pro boxers have looked in the clinch in BK. They have generally got pieced up and hurt bad or dropped, looking like fish out of water. I suppose the rule change plus no gloves makes them vulnerable and unprepared. Definitely was not aware this was such a deficiency in boxing as translates to BK and self defence scenarios.

The issue is with traditional boxing, there isn't much clinching (I know what you're thinking, you see clinching all the time) but they rarely "work their way out" they usually just stand there throwing halfhearted punches into each others sides waiting for the ref to come break them up.
Boxers that have also done Muay Thai would probably be a lot better in BK than just straight boxers.

Hunto-san would straight up demolish BK. If you've read Mark Hunts book you would realize just how borderline insane that guy is. He was probably one foot in jail for the majority of his life because of his temper and his willingness to throw down anywhere anytime. If you open the dictionary to fearless you'll find a picture of Mark Hunt and Evander Holyfield.

 

[eternaldarkness]

No my friend, that would be you. Help others to reminisce how they used to think when they were in their early youth before entering the adult world.



Hunt would be brutal. It is a half joke that Samoans have hard heads (was a frequent parody in pro wresting) but can you imagine trying to stop that guy with barefist punches.

Also back to the original threads premise, I have been surprised at how bad pro boxers have looked in the clinch in BK. They have generally got pieced up and hurt bad or dropped, looking like fish out of water. I suppose the rule change plus no gloves makes them vulnerable and unprepared. Definitely was not aware this was such a deficiency in boxing as translates to BK and self defence scenarios.

Modern boxers lack skill in the clinch but go and watch someone like Henry Armstrong.

 

[zapataxiv]

Modern boxers lack skill in the clinch but go and watch someone like Henry Armstrong.

or archibald moore he was scientist in the clinch i believe his theories on clinch fighting are still the prevailing theories in modern clinch fighting.

 

[ironkhan57]

or archibald moore he was scientist in the clinch i believe his theories on clinch fighting are still the prevailing theories in modern clinch fighting.

I feel like modern clinch fighting is no longer muay thai. Cuz now in mma, shoulder strikes are being practiced and used in the clinch, a long with the usual punches, elbows, knees, and kicks.

 

[zapataxiv]

I feel like modern clinch fighting is no longer muay thai. Cuz now in mma, shoulder strikes are being practiced and used in the clinch, a long with the usual punches, elbows, knees, and kicks.

Archibald Moore was a pugilist of the highest caliber my fine boy. He was not a cage fighter

 

[OneChinTouch]

Levels.._You FAT Bastard Booth would have wrecked most bare knuckle boys

 

[sweetviolenturg]

Archibald Moore was a pugilist of the highest caliber my fine boy. He was not a cage fighter

I had a few long talks with Moore back in the late '80s while working with him on a couple of occasions & he was amazing. A total gentleman & a never-ending fountain of boxing knowledge.

 

[Lord_Impaler]

I am giving an example of more diverse training methods.
If u get trapped in the corner of the ring against a good WC guy your night is over.

If u have felt the power of the strikes u will know. I am routinely winding guys with body shots,thrown at about 40% power (no gloves or mma type gloves). And I know guys who hit harder than me. The power is different and more penetrating than a typical boxing punch. I believe 'hitters' in boxing who punch relaxed with heavy hands have a similar type of power.
Although I would say that is with sitting down on the punches which is the case for most WC strikes, there are no 'jab' type movemets in traditional Wing Chun every strike is to end things.



Size of the ring and ability to cut off space is important for the style to work, so if u have space to jab and run then yes,WC won't work well.

These guys are just standing in front of each other parrying and slapping each other as fast as they can.....I guess the guy can be an expert in that? But it looks as much like actual hand to hand combat as salsa dancing.

What happens when you get someone who actually moves around, steps in and out of range, throws longer strikes....all basic components and strategies of every “proven” striking style?

I don’t know much about wing chun, it looks like that “52 blocks” thing. Is this a main feature of wing chun, the hand flailing?

 

[ironkhan57]

Archibald Moore was a pugilist of the highest caliber my fine boy. He was not a cage fighter

I was just sayin in general how the clinch has evolved over the last century not commenting on archi bro.

 

[sakfjgadsyukgf]

This is a complete assumption and totally depends on the person. And to be honest I'd probably pick the street-smart thug who's always walking around armed or with mates and has been in several altercations over the clueless athlete whose only opposition has been in sports. A lot of inexperienced people freeze and make mistakes when real violence happens.

I basically agree with this. But- people who choose to be amateur or professional fighters for a living do it because they love to fight, and they've almost certainly had some street fights back in their day.

Like- let's take everyone who's ever been a pro fighter, MMA or boxing, whatever. What % of them have never been in a street fight? I'm gonna say, like, 1% or less. Aggressive people are aggressive. Bas Rutten has a Youtube series on how to win bar fights, it's not based on his experience in the ring lol.

As far as answering OP's question- the lessons I see from bare knuckle are just throw straight punches to the head, no hooks, no arcing shots. (Also has anyone in bare knuckle actually used palm strikes yet? I've only watched like 2 or 3 fights, but haven't seen it. Keep waiting to see it in combat jiu-jitsu too, not sure if you guys have watched any)

 

[eternaldarkness]

Got soccer kicked in the face the other night. Does that help?

 

[Jesus X]

Seems that bareknuckle is a good testing ground for the art 'as a self defence style' and how well it translates when the gloves are off.



The other thing that comes to mind is palm heels are legit without gloves (think Bas Rutten).

I'm not just referring to Malinaggi being embarrassed by a journey man and looking panicked when clinched by Lobov, even tho only fists were allowed.

I actually would love to see a proper, trained and conditioned Wing Chun guy do BK, I think it can work well under BKFC rules.

Or a top level Kyokushinkai enter would smash guys also I think.

So what are thoughts on how the 'sweet science' looks through the lens of BK when the gloves are off?

nguyen did well for a pro boxer seems the pro beoxers just need time to adapt there style to bkfc and then they will dominate.

 

[TheMaster]

Classic

 

[MrPsychoticKane]

I love Bare Knuckle Boxing, It's like a street fight and yes Vale Tudo exists but this is pretty much a great self-defence art for those who wanna just throw hands.