What happens when diversity wins and the minorities are the solid majority?

[Devout Pessimist]

ugh

I could not care less what she does with her nasty lady bush. I suspect I am one of many who does not care.

 

[Devout Pessimist]

You're confusing "limiting government" and "limited government." Limited immigration requires government intervention. This is really shoddy equivocation on your part.

I cannot help it. I am deplorable.

 

[TheGreatA]

To borrow from Ibn-Khaldun's theory on the cycle of rising and declining empires (which has been observed time and time again throughout history):

"When a society becomes a great civilization (and, presumably, the dominant culture in its region), its high point is followed by a period of decay. This means that the next cohesive group that conquers the diminished civilization is, by comparison, a group of barbarians. Once the barbarians solidify their control over the conquered society, however, they become attracted to its more refined aspects, such as literacy and arts, and either assimilate into or appropriate such cultural practices. Then, eventually, the former barbarians will be conquered by a new set of barbarians, who will repeat the process."

"Each dynasty (or civilization) has within itself the seeds of its own downfall. He explains that ruling houses tend to emerge on the peripheries of great empires and use the much stronger `asabiyya (social cohesion) present in those areas to their advantage, in order to bring about a change in leadership. This implies that the new rulers are at first considered "barbarians" by comparison to the old ones. As they establish themselves at the center of their empire, they become increasingly lax, less coordinated, disciplined and watchful, and more concerned with maintaining their new power and lifestyle at the centre of the empire—i.e, their internal cohesion and ties to the original peripheral group, the `asabiyya, dissolves into factionalism and individualism, diminishing their capacity as a political unit. Thus, conditions are created wherein a new dynasty can emerge at the periphery of their control, grow strong, and effect a change in leadership, beginning the cycle anew."

Written in 1377 but I suppose you could draw comparisons to what is happening in the modern day. The more cohesive minorities, whether ideological, cultural or religious, are gaining dominance over the fractured majority, the "center mass".

 

[Philo-Publius]

Because people tend to want to pass their bloodline and genes down and aren't exactly excited about realizing that their children or grandchildren will have no future in the country that they served or helped build.

Do you really think that the future of countries like France, Italy, Germany, Sweden, England are going to be better when no French, Italian, German, Swedish or English people exist anymore and the country is next going to be run by a bunch of Paki or Afghani or Somalian Muslims?

Do you see the Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, Saudi's, Israeli's, Africans, Mexicans getting excited and intentionally pursuing policies that will make it so they won't exist in their own countries anymore?




This mass immigration into Western countries is a relatively new phenomenon it is not "Western values" the USA which is "multi-cultural" for around the first 200 years of it's history had very strict immigration laws and was not importing in mass third world immigrants. The majority of the immigrants were from Western Europe and had Western European values.

In Western European countries they were much, much stricter on immigration as well. Western values has always been aligned with fighting against Islam as well, if you look into the history of Southern European countries.


Also the fact that this crisis of demographic replacement could potentially happen is proof that the so called "progressive" "western values" that you cherish have a major con and it is weakness and that it will be replaced by a much stronger more united group. Abortion, homosexual rights, the lack of family values, contraceptives, this all lowers the birth rate, a lack of national identity and ethnic identity causes people to not care about their group and when you import a tribalist group who has much higher birth rates and does not assimilate, and a much stronger and stricter background they will eventually out number you and replace you and replace the culture and laws and values and morals that you had.

Like I said...it's a war of ideology, not race.

 

[Rod1]

To borrow from Ibn-Khaldun's theory on the cycle of rising and declining empires (which has been observed time and time again throughout history):

"When a society becomes a great civilization (and, presumably, the dominant culture in its region), its high point is followed by a period of decay. This means that the next cohesive group that conquers the diminished civilization is, by comparison, a group of barbarians. Once the barbarians solidify their control over the conquered society, however, they become attracted to its more refined aspects, such as literacy and arts, and either assimilate into or appropriate such cultural practices. Then, eventually, the former barbarians will be conquered by a new set of barbarians, who will repeat the process."

"Each dynasty (or civilization) has within itself the seeds of its own downfall. He explains that ruling houses tend to emerge on the peripheries of great empires and use the much stronger `asabiyya (social cohesion) present in those areas to their advantage, in order to bring about a change in leadership. This implies that the new rulers are at first considered "barbarians" by comparison to the old ones. As they establish themselves at the center of their empire, they become increasingly lax, less coordinated, disciplined and watchful, and more concerned with maintaining their new power and lifestyle at the centre of the empire—i.e, their internal cohesion and ties to the original peripheral group, the `asabiyya, dissolves into factionalism and individualism, diminishing their capacity as a political unit. Thus, conditions are created wherein a new dynasty can emerge at the periphery of their control, grow strong, and effect a change in leadership, beginning the cycle anew."

Written in 1377 but I suppose you could draw comparisons to what is happening in the modern day. The more cohesive minorities, whether ideological, cultural or religious, are gaining dominance over the fractured majority, the "center mass".

Who are the more cohesive minorities?

 

[Jack V Savage]

With "progressive values" if you oppose mass third world immigration, or Islamic immigration you are a "racist", "bigot", "xenophobe". This mass immigration will change and destroy western values, so the only way to preserve western values is to fix your immigration laws. This would include the limitation of non-western immigration to a level that is sustainable where people will have to and be forced into assimilation into the west.

Who is talking about "progressive values"? And you still show a lack of understanding of what values even are.

 

[TheGreatA]

Who are the more cohesive minorities?

Ideologically the far-leftists and the far-right are improving their position, from having served as niche groups for the past 50 or so years. Culturally, I would say that the Mexicans and the Asians in the United States. Religiously, the Muslims (more so in Europe than the United States).

I believe that these groups will see themselves increasing in relevancy while the more established groups will see a decline, as most of their potency for improvement has already been used up. Stagnation for these groups has been going on for quite a long time.

However, it would be an exaggeration to say that there's going to be a full-fledged dynasty change on the horizon. The incremental changes will take decades. Old populations will eventually vanish or be downgraded in the importance that they play in a society , while new ones will prosper.

 

[Rod1]

Ideologically the far-leftists and the far-right are improving their position, from having served as niche groups for the past 50 or so years. Culturally, I would say that the Mexicans and the Asians in the United States. Religiously, the Muslims (more so in Europe than the United States).

I believe that these groups will see themselves increasing in relevancy while the more established groups will see a decline, as most of their potency for improvement has already been used up. Stagnation for these groups has been going on for quite a long time.

However, it would be an exaggeration to say that there's going to be a full-fledged dynasty change on the horizon. The incremental changes will take decades. Old populations will eventually vanish or be downgraded in the importance that they play in a society , while new ones will prosper.

Mexicans and asians?

Among all newlyweds, 9.4% of whites, 17.1% of blacks, 25.7% of Hispanics and 27.7% of Asians married someone whose race or ethnicity was different from their own.

Among all newlyweds, intermarried pairings were primarily White-Hispanic (43.3%) as compared to White-Asian (14.4%), White-Black (11.9%), and Other Combinations (30.4%). Other combinations consists of pairings between different minority groups, multi-racial people, and American Indians.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interracial_marriage_in_the_United_States

 

[Trotsky]

This is hilarious considering what just happened. The threat to Western values is not coming from minorities. Trump explicitly rejected Western values and won the presidency (and minority groups were a large part of the pro-American opposition). And other politicians in the West have tried the same (Le Pen, Farage, etc.).

I'm honestly shocked this thread, particularly with its poll options, has survived summary judgment by the moderators.

Yes, Western Europeans will become a plurality as opposed to a majority. No, no cataclysmic cultural shift will occur, and the other cultures will not immediately acquiesce and lose their identities.

 

[TheGreatA]

Mexicans and asians?

Among all newlyweds, 9.4% of whites, 17.1% of blacks, 25.7% of Hispanics and 27.7% of Asians married someone whose race or ethnicity was different from their own.

Among all newlyweds, intermarried pairings were primarily White-Hispanic (43.3%) as compared to White-Asian (14.4%), White-Black (11.9%), and Other Combinations (30.4%). Other combinations consists of pairings between different minority groups, multi-racial people, and American Indians.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interracial_marriage_in_the_United_States

I'm sure you will find that in every country, the more recently immigrated minority will inter-marry at a higher rate, in an effort to increase social standing and to better integrate to the society. The pool of potential partners to inter-marry with is also much lower for the majority, explaining the lower percentage.

However, I was more so talking about cultural cohesion than racial. I believe that the Mexican culture will continue to be more strongly represented in the United States, in the coming years, regardless of whether these people are 100% Mexican descent or not.

 

[68W Man]

I'm honestly shocked this thread, particularly with its poll options, has survived summary judgment by the moderators.

Yes, Western Europeans will become a plurality as opposed to a majority. No, no cataclysmic cultural shift will occur, and the other cultures will not immediately acquiesce and lose their identities.

Yes a major cultural shift will occur, the other groups are already using identity politics and tribalism to work against the majority now, what do you think they will do when they gain even more power?

Also, why would any European support this? Why would any European say to himself and celebrate losing control and becoming a minority in his own homeland of his forefathers?


Have you ever seen any other ethnic group support this or be excited about it?

 

[Greoric]

Diversity and variation are necessary for evolution.

I don't really know what you're referring to with evolution in the political sense, but biologically you have it the other way around. Speciation comes from isolation, not from two populations being miscible.

 

[Trotsky]

Yes a major cultural shift will occur, the other groups are already using identity politics and tribalism to work against the majority now, what do you think they will do when they gain even more power?

Also, why would any European support this? Why would any European say to himself and celebrate losing control and becoming a minority in his own homeland of his forefathers?


Have you ever seen any other ethnic group support this or be excited about it?

lololol

Not every person of European descent is a weird traditionalist/tribalist. None of my white friends (save for one, who decided dealing coke was a better alternative to making the best of his education) are the least bit worried about the historical protections of their culture, as white American culture really only extends to popular culture anyways. American culture is already fluid. Also, your argument doesn't work with regard to North America. At least persons coming from across the South border have indigenous blood. By your rationale, their claim is stronger than yours.

 

[68W Man]

lololol

Not every person of European descent is a weird traditionalist/tribalist. None of my white friends (save for one, who decided dealing coke was a better alternative to making the best of his education) are the least bit worried about the historical protections of their culture, as white American culture really only extends to popular culture anyways. American culture is already fluid. Also, your argument doesn't work with regard to North America. At least persons coming from across the South border have indigenous blood. By your rationale, their claim is stronger than yours.

That's because they have been brainwashed ( by the usual suspects ) into not knowing their true history, or culture, and to accepting the modern day degeneracy as the cool culture. These same people are brainwashed into accepting millions of foreign immigrants as "it's the right thing to do" many of these foreigners will eventually overtake them and treat them worse and they would have brainwashed into believing it was the right choice.

 

[Greoric]

I'm honestly shocked this thread, particularly with its poll options, has survived summary judgment by the moderators.

Yes, Western Europeans will become a plurality as opposed to a majority. No, no cataclysmic cultural shift will occur, and the other cultures will not immediately acquiesce and lose their identities.

Yes it will. The northern europeans have the only individualist outlook among the Africans, Middle Easterners, and Asians. By extension northern European descendants are the only ethnicity that's adapted to have the least in group/ out group preference (because of ecological constraints) along with the first (and only?) to adopt universalist ethcial principles.

If any of the latter groups become the majority demographic, diversity will cease to remain a value in society.

 

[68W Man]

Yes it will. The northern europeans have the only individualist outlook among the Africans, Middle Eastern, Asians. By extension they're the only ethnicity that's adapted to have the least in/group out group preference (because of ecological constraints) along with the first (and only?) to adopt universalist ethcial principles.

If any of the latter groups become the majority demographic, diversity will cease to remain a value in society.

That's because of brainwashing to those Europeans, typically that brainwashing occured after WW2 when anyone who opposed mass immigration was deemed a racist nazi and people were so guilt trodden and scared of another Hitler occuring that they went along with it.

 

[Greoric]

That's because of brainwashing to those Europeans, typically that brainwashing occured after WW2 when anyone who opposed mass immigration was deemed a racist nazi and people were so guilt trodden and scared of another Hitler occuring that they went along with it.

And that's a minority position naturally for whites, to overtly reject strangers. The openness and welcoming nature may very well become its downfall.

 

[68W Man]

And that's a minority position naturally for whites, to overtly reject strangers. The openness and welcoming nature may very well become its downfall.

That's only because of subversion and brainwashing. Europe was much stricter on immigration and would fight against invaders for thousands of years.

This phenomenon of cultural marxism, massive immigration and white guilt are all relatively new and hopefully will end very soon. I see Brexit and the Trump election as the start of white people waking up.

 

[Deleted member 196663]

So I’m sitting here in a library and across the way and some girl is watching Laci Green videos and vlogs about how racist Trump is, and it got me thinking… What exactly do people think is going to happen if minority groups with notably different value sets than those we are used to in the Liberal Western world are no longer a minority? If we look at places around the world that these people often come from, where they are the majority and their values the norm we’ll see, all but across the board, regimes which by the standards of the Liberal West are *abhorrent*. From the many corners of Africa, to the Middle East, and many places in Asia, there are unchallenged laws and popularly and publicly held opinions that, in many of the countries we hail from, support of which would be immediate grounds for firing, social shaming, etc. Yet, paradoxically, we push multiculturalism and diversity as some of the greatest virtues of our society – so, I’m curious, what do Sherdoggers think is going to happen when those minority groups become the solid majority that controls policy?

This is the question for people on the left and right alike, though I think I have a pretty good idea about where you all stand. Flesh it out for us though – what do you expect to happen when the majority is composed of people representing cultures that, in their own countries, have enforced policies and widely hold views that many of you would immediately denounce your next door neighbors for support of.

Also, some food for thought..

“More than half of British Muslims (52%) think homosexuality should not be legal, and nearly half (47%) think it is not appropriate for gay people to teach in schools, according to a new survey of British Muslims.”

We must embrace other cultures and respect their ways - or must be quash such backwards views and impose our more enlightened culture upon the barbarians in concert with the ways of our colonialist heritage? Only once they have rejected their own core values and accepted our more correct ones will we have true diversity.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/11/europe/britain-muslims-survey/index.html


“Muslims in Britain have zero tolerance towards homosexual acts compared to their counterparts in France and Germany, according to a survey published today.

The Gallup poll features the results of telephone and face-to-face interviews with Muslims and non-Muslims in the UK, France and Germany and is designed to measure global attitudes towards people from different faith traditions.”

Can we expect the values we have fought long and hard for to fall prey to the bigotry of the people we have, in our rush to not be bigots ourselves, allowed to build their pulpits and strongholds in our homelands? When their votes are the majority, what will they vote to make the standards of our land?

“The most dramatic contrast was found in attitudes towards homosexuality. None of the 500 British Muslims interviewed believed that homosexual acts were morally acceptable. 1,001 non-Muslim Britons were interviewed.”

Or can we expect their cultures to bend to what we deem acceptable through education in assimilation – and only when their backwards cultures bow to ours, as has been the way of elitist colonial mindsets throughout European history, will we be able to declare that “multiculturalism” has won?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/may/07/muslims-britain-france-germany-homosexuality

"He said non-Muslims would be welcome to move into his project of prefabricated homes, but they would have to share the values of their Muslim neighbours.

“You don’t drive drunk on the street. If you want to drink alcohol, you drink it in your house,” he said. Women could choose whether to wear the headscarf but they could not walk around in a halter-top and shorts.

“There must be some modesty in the way you dress. We don’t want women living there going half-naked down the streets. We don’t like that,” he said. “If they want to do that, let them go and live in downtown Montreal.”

Will they form cloistered communities in which they will create replicas of their own countries, proudly espousing policies and philosophies that we would immediately denounce our neighbors as bigots for even hinting at? Diversity will be "letting their views that we find abhorrent thrive - just in that neighborhood over there" as they look out at us in the same way?

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/muslim-housing-development-proposed-for-montreal.3400043/

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/c...ontreal-is-discrimination-quebec-premier-says

Seriously, we're on the verge of whites in America becoming less than half the voter base, and if birth and immigration rates around the world are any indicator, the cultures that masterminded the enlightened, Western, Liberal democracies around the globe will be outnumbered in their own countries within our lifetime. What do the two deathly opposed sides of this see happening when your children and their children are growing old?

Also, just to be clear, while my examples are focusing on Muslims, this is not solely a Muslims VS the West phenomenon. Groups from all corners of the world will be knocking on your doors, not just from the Middle East.

You asked what's going to happen when minority groups become the solid majority that "controls policy"?? WTF does that even mean. First off, minority groups aren't Transfomers that can combine to form Devastator. There is no shared agenda for all minority groups to unite and "take over". There is no central command for all minorities where they are all figuring out how to "control policy". You need to think harder on your argument.

 

[68W Man]

You asked what's going to happen when minority groups become the solid majority that "controls policy"?? WTF does that even mean. First off, minority groups aren't Transfomers that can combine to form Devastator. There is no shared agenda for all minority groups to unite and "take over". There is no central command for all minorities where they are all figuring out how to "control policy". You need to think harder on your argument.

Actually Hispanic and black and Muslim groups and LGBT and feminists have all been open about standing in "solidarity" and uniting politically ( under the Democrat banner ) to take control of the country from straight white men.

Of course when the straight white men are taken out of political power demographically these other groups will fight with each other to fill the power vacuum.