Opinion What do you think of white nationalism?

[Rod1]

Just because you decide that you can only show pride in belonging to a culture and then proclaim that a skin colour is a culture doesn't prove anything.

It's also an obvious bait-n-switch, because there are black people who are proud of their skin colour, which is attached to their heritage, and not just their culture. Otherwise, white people could be proud black men.

Plus, I can make up a syllogism, too:

You can show pride in skin colour.
White is a skin colour.
Ergo you can show pride in being white.

 

[dontsnitch]

You you agree that a white man can be a proud black man, since it's cultural?

 

[Rod1]

You you agree that a white man can be a proud black man, since it's cultural?

Ask him.

 

[dontsnitch]

Ask him.

That doesn't answer my question.

 

[Rod1]

That doesn't answer my question.

So a white man that passes as a black man doesnt answers your question of whether a white man can pass as a black man?

 

[Voodoo_Child906]

Right, so by this metric, we need not look further than the people in Europe that were also colonized throughout history. If we are judging individuals by the history of their people, everyone is going to be oppressed.

What do we do in countries like Liberia that were colonized by other African people? This whole endeavor quickly devolves into absurdity. As if me showing pride in myself has anything to do with what happened hundreds of years ago. If you build a syllogism, I can fill it with any people, race, or ethnicity to match your criteria as I did above.

Maybe you're just skimming my posts:

"Yes there is historical context but there is also application in society today."

If you have a group that has historically been oppressed and that oppression still manifests itself today then they can have a Pride movement.

I'll also make the same comment as I did above-- Just because you want to define pride as being morally acceptable only in the event that it's tied to oppression doesn't mean that it's objectively true. It seems obvious to me that pride is about yourself, and not your ancestors. Such a premise is not axiomatic, and I can simply reject it out of hand. What we are left with is your personal interpretation of what is acceptable, and one which I disagree with. You are not right simply by stating this as a fact, and neither am I, although I consider my view much more consistent.

Objectively true? This is a discussion on sociology. I think you're having a problem differentiating pride vs a Pride Movement.

 

[dontsnitch]

So a white man that passes as a black man doesnt answers your question of whether a white man can pass as a black man?

That wasn't the claim. You said that black is a culture, and it's that what people are taking pride in, not skin colour. Since we know that we can adopt cultures, you could have a Chinese man that is a proud black man.

I wonder if these proud black men in the US who were targeting white people in Milwaukee stopped to ask them what their culture was?

I mean, if you're willing to to go to these lengths, where you'd rather say that a white person can be a proud black person instead of saying it's okay for white people to be proud, I think you should reevaluate. When your ad hoc explanations have taken you this far, you should probably turn around.

 

[Voodoo_Child906]

I think it was on the Hardcore History podcast where I heard that Salafism was rooted in the Mongolia raids. The raides were so brutal and many of the Mongols converted to Islam so it was like a defense to the Mongola.

I'm hard pressed finding an equivalent to the sheer and utter cruelty of the Mongol Hordes. It was shocking what they did to their enemies.

 

[dontsnitch]

Maybe you're just skimming my posts:

"Yes there is historical context but there is also application in society today."

If you have a group that has historically been oppressed and that oppression still manifests itself today then they can have a Pride movement.



Objectively true? This is a discussion on sociology. I think you're having a problem differentiating pride vs a Pride Movement.

There are a host of people who are no longer visibly oppressed. That's kind of the point, individuals are individuals, and they are not all affected by oppression that occurred centuries ago.

I guess if you concede that your view is only subjective, I can just agree to disagree.

 

[Voodoo_Child906]

There are a host of people who are no longer visibly oppressed. That's kind of the point, individuals are individuals, and they are not all affected by oppression that occurred centuries ago.

If they are no longer visibly oppressed then why would they need a Pride Movement. Do you understand the difference between pride and a pride movement?

 

[Rod1]

That wasn't the claim. You said that black is a culture, and it's that what people are taking pride in, not skin colour. Since we know that we can adopt cultures, you could have a Chinese man that is a proud black man.

I wonder if these proud black men in the US who were targeting white people in Milwaukee stopped to ask them what their culture was?

I mean, if you're willing to to go to these lengths, where you'd rather say that a white person can be a proud black person instead of saying it's okay for white people to be proud, I think you should reevaluate. When your ad hoc explanations have taken you this far, you should probably turn around.

So you honestly believe that keeping people under chains for centuries followed by over a hundred years of hard, legal segregation followed by a few decades of soft segregation and people wont develop a culture of their own?

And black people targeting white people because of the color of their skin is clearly racism and highly illegal and that means its not accepted by society in any form.

From the wikipage

Black pride is a movement in response to dominant white cultures and ideologies that encouragesblack people to celebrate black culture and embrace their African heritage

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_pride

And what is black people

Black people (seen both capitalized and with lowercase "b") is a term used in certain countries, often in socially based systems of racial classification or of ethnicity, to describe persons who are perceived to be dark-skinnedcompared to other given populations. As such, the meaning of the expression varies widely both between and within societies, and depends significantly on context. For many other individuals, communities and countries, "black" is also perceived as a derogatory, outdated, reductive or otherwise unrepresentative label, and as a result is neither used nor defined.[1]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_people

 

[Rod1]

There are a host of people who are no longer visibly oppressed. That's kind of the point, individuals are individuals, and they are not all affected by oppression that occurred centuries ago.

I guess if you concede that your view is only subjective, I can just agree to disagree.

So you think that mexican pride, italian pride, irish pride and all other perfectly acceptable pride movements shouldnt exist unless whites get their own?

 

[dontsnitch]

So you honestly believe that keeping people under chains for centuries followed by over a hundred years of hard, legal segregation followed by a few decades of soft segregation and people wont develop a culture of their own?

And black people targeting white people because of the color of their skin is clearly racism and highly illegal and that means its not accepted by society in any form.

From the wikipage

Black pride is a movement in response to dominant white cultures and ideologies that encouragesblack people to celebrate black culture and embrace their African heritage

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_pride

And what is black people

Black people (seen both capitalized and with lowercase "b") is a term used in certain countries, often in socially based systems of racial classification or of ethnicity, to describe persons who are perceived to be dark-skinnedcompared to other given populations. As such, the meaning of the expression varies widely both between and within societies, and depends significantly on context. For many other individuals, communities and countries, "black" is also perceived as a derogatory, outdated, reductive or otherwise unrepresentative label, and as a result is neither used nor defined.[1]

Interesting, your link says that white is a culture. I guess we can use the syllogism you used earlier then:

You can show pride in belonging to a culture.
White is a culture.
Ergo you can show pride in being white.

You can't have it both ways. You have to acknowledge that other races can be proud black men, which you did, or acknowledge that skin colour plays a role.

I think we're done here.

 

[dontsnitch]

So you think that mexican pride, italian pride, irish pride and all other perfectly acceptable pride movements shouldnt exist unless whites get their own?

No. I think you have to (and have) jumped through a ton of illogical hoops in order to claim that it's not acceptable to have white pride, even when all the metrics add up.

 

[dontsnitch]

I'm gonna tap here. My position is pretty unshakable given what I've seen here, and your position(s) are as well.

Honestly, @Rod1, no hard feelings. You're a solid poster and I like you.

@Voodoo_Child906, I'll meet you again in a philosophy of religion thread. Also, I may have spoken past you a bit here, as I equivocated your position with Rod's. I don't have the energy to go back and resume accordingly.

 

[Voodoo_Child906]

I'm gonna tap here. My position is pretty unshakable given what I've seen here, and your position(s) are as well.

Honestly, @Rod1, no hard feelings. You're a solid poster and I like you.

@Voodoo_Child906, I'll meet you again in a philosophy of religion thread. Also, I may have spoken past you a bit here, as I equivocated your position with Rod's. I don't have the energy to go back and resume accordingly.

Can you answer that one question before you go please, do you understand th difference between pride and a pride movement?

 

[dontsnitch]

Can you answer that one question before you go please, do you understand th difference between pride and a pride movement?

Yes, I do, although I am confident I can argue that the differences are negligible in relation the core of our premises, especially mine. If I had to do you right, I'd go back and start over, but I'm wiped here.

 

[Voodoo_Child906]

You have no idea how christianity extended in the spanish empire, the whole enslaving and murdering was done by greedy Spanish oportunists, the church was the only one that actually cared about the natives.

Catholicism spread as usual, by hijacking local religious figures as the anticipation of a christian figure.

In the case of central Mexico, the virgin Mary took the mantle of the female earth god Tonantzin, in the Guadalupe myth.

I will have to double check the footnotes.

http://klarbooks.com/academic/catholic.html

The Catholic Church had begun issuing papal bulls in 1452 which granted rights and privileges in order to promote missionary activity. [Las Casas p.15] The American continent was 'bestowed' by God (through the Pope) upon the Spanish and Portuguese.[Todorov p.147]

Hernan Cortes considered it vital that the Indians subjected themselves not only to the Spanish throne but also to the 'mysteries of Christ'.[Portilla p.58] This was important as the Church had ruled that enslavement and war could only be made on groups that had rejected the Gospel.[Ibid] When encountering a people the Requerimiento was to read to them. Afterwards, if they still chose not to submit to God's will, violence was permissible. This was regardless of whether the people actually understood.

 

[Voodoo_Child906]

Yes, I do, although I am confident I can argue that the differences are negligible in relation the core of our premises, especially mine. If I had to do you right, I'd go back and start over, but I'm wiped here.

Another time then because that was the foundation of my thesis which was talked over. Catch ya later

 

[dontsnitch]

Another time then because that was the foundation of my thesis which was talked over. Catch ya later

Alright, why don't you give me your thesis real quick.