What did Jones mean when he said a pinch of salt in a swimming pool?

[mirko>anyone]

You're not actually this stupid, are you? I pinch of salt in a swimming pool has zero effect on the salinity of that kind of volume of water.

Similarly, a near zero concentration of a PED substance is an indication of trace contamination that has no actual PED effect. The point of taking PED is to get PED effects.

If I get pulled over and take a blood alcohol test that shows .000000001% BAC, when legal intoxication is .08%, I would make the case that I'm not intoxicated. And I would be right.

This is not me saying he didn't cheat, or that you should believe his claims. This is me saying you are stupid for not understanding that very basic point of argument.

He’s that stupid.

 

[OrwellianNightmare]

Doesn't it seem suspicious to you that he failed for the second time for the same substance after a suspension?

"The most recent published science on oral Turinabol was in 2011, a study done by Russian scientists Tim Sobolevsky and Grigory Rodchenkov. The study estimates that the detection window of the M3 metabolite (the one found in Jones’ system) is 40 to 50 days."

So he took the same dick pill twice after popping for it the first time? Its obvious he's masking the Tbol somehow. Unless you think he's so stupid that he would use the same dick pill that got him in trouble the first time.

 

[fzoid4454]

If your body is 70 percent water and you weigh 230 lb, then thats around 160 lbs of water. If you inject steroids in say a 1 mL injection, wouldnt that be similar to a salt in the swmming pool ratio lol

No. That would be about 95000 times the concentration of a dash of salt in a swimming pool.

 

[kflo]

Ah VADA. The agency GSP wanted to use instead of USADA when he fought Hendricks. There's some real credibility there. How would I know what masking agent Jon must be using? You're trying to imply that all the prior tests (Jon is one of the most heavily tested fighters on the roster) before his positive tests were from urine fluctuations. That seems way more ridiculous to me. Considering Jon's previous history of drug tests, criminal charges, and stories of him hiding under the octagon for hours to avoid USADA, you think its more likely he's clean than dirty? If you look at his estrogen and testosterone levels in testing reports you'd have to assume his endocrinology system is shot. He's probably unable to do proper post cycle therapy with all the drug tests he's receiving either. So unless you think he's able to function at a world class level with the test levels of a 90 year old man he's still obviously on something. This positive test is what evidence we have, and I'm just going by deductive reasoning. Do you really think all those false negatives were from Urine fluctuations? That's a lot of tests USADA is messing up.

I'm not hating on Jones. 99% of world class athletes are drugged up. That 1% being in some niche sport where you don't need the advantages. But you seem to be thinking Jon is innocent. Is that your position?

He had CIR testing done when his t/e was low which confirmed no exogenous testosterone. And the science director of a wada lab stated there was nothing wrong with his results.

 

[fzoid4454]

Doesn't it seem suspicious to you that he failed for the second time for the same substance after a suspension?

"The most recent published science on oral Turinabol was in 2011, a study done by Russian scientists Tim Sobolevsky and Grigory Rodchenkov. The study estimates that the detection window of the M3 metabolite (the one found in Jones’ system) is 40 to 50 days."

So he took the same dick pill twice after popping for it the first time? Its obvious he's masking the Tbol somehow. Unless you think he's so stupid that he would use the same dick pill that got him in trouble the first time.

If the substance stays stored in the body and there is no mechanism to metabolize it, no. It's the same residual substance, potentially.

Also, the "dick pill" fiasco was a completely different thing. If you're going to question the veracity of the science or the claims, shouldn't you have the first clue as to what substances are in question and what the claims are?

Remember the basis of the suspension was "we can't prove that you took it at any particular time, but since there is an indication that you had some, at some time, and you're not allowed to have any, ever.... suspension."

The basis of NOT suspending him subsequently was "we can't prove that you took it at any particular time, and there's nothing to indicate that it's not the same indication as the previous test. We can't prove or demonstrate that we wouldn't be punishing you twice for the same occurance"

 

[kflo]

Doesn't it seem suspicious to you that he failed for the second time for the same substance after a suspension?

"The most recent published science on oral Turinabol was in 2011, a study done by Russian scientists Tim Sobolevsky and Grigory Rodchenkov. The study estimates that the detection window of the M3 metabolite (the one found in Jones’ system) is 40 to 50 days."

So he took the same dick pill twice after popping for it the first time? Its obvious he's masking the Tbol somehow. Unless you think he's so stupid that he would use the same dick pill that got him in trouble the first time.

Again you’re very confused about the facts. The dick pills had nothing to do with tbol.

 

[PalmStrike]

Without PEDs, MMA would be all but gone right now.

Sorry but its the honest truth.

 

[OrwellianNightmare]

This is a professional athlete that sweats profusely from hard training and fluctuates weights on a daily basis. I highly doubt that the metabolites which are reported to be only testable up to 40-50 days would remain so long after the first suspension into the second suspension. This defies logic for me. The dick pill comment was in reference to what Jon said was an excuse, I don't actually believe that. You seem to have problems picking up sarcasm.

 

[kflo]

This is a professional athlete that sweats profusely from hard training and fluctuates weights on a daily basis. I highly doubt that the metabolites which are reported to be only testable up to 40-50 days would remain so long after the first suspension into the second suspension. This defies logic for me. The dick pill comment was in reference to what Jon said was an excuse, I don't actually believe that. You seem to have problems picking up sarcasm.

again, because you are misinformed.

they are not testable for only 40-50 days. single doses have been detectable for close to a year.

his first suspension was not for m3 metabolites. his 2nd suspension was.

jon didn't say dick pills were the reason for the m3 detection.

 

[fzoid4454]

This is a professional athlete that sweats profusely from hard training and fluctuates weights on a daily basis. I highly doubt that the metabolites which are reported to be only testable up to 40-50 days would remain so long after the first suspension into the second suspension. This defies logic for me. The dick pill comment was in reference to what Jon said was an excuse, I don't actually believe that. You seem to have problems picking up sarcasm.

The whole reason why he popped at the levels he did is because the ability of tests to detect concentrations improved massively over the years. The study you are citing was from years before his test results. So "testable" is like the difference between a hand-held magnifying glass and an electron microscope. They didn't have ANY tests that could detect that low a concentration in 2011. They did in 2017. So the time window for how long something was "testable" for much less precise tests is not going to be the same.

Use some common sense.

Again, "dick pill" was never offered as an excuse for Turinabol. It was for a previous result and suspension for estrogen inhibitors. And they did find that shady unregulated imitation-Cialis manufacturers did have contamination issues with those substances, when they independently acquired some. Go figure.

 

[SaltFork]

If he sees a swimming pool of liquor and just a pinch of coke hell dive in still.

Lol

 

[OrwellianNightmare]

Oh yeah that was for Clomid and Letrozole. To keep estrogen down and restart your testosterone after a cycle. So far he's failed tests for a post cycle drug, estrogen control agent, and twice for Turinabol. How are you still defending him? Not to mention the story of him hiding under the octagon for hours to avoid testing. Do you seriously think Jon isn't on something? His test levels are completely messed up and he can't take PCT anymore. You think he's competing clean at a world class level with the test levels of a senile man? If you want to argue that he's no longer on Turinabol and is likely on Tren instead ok. But what is the point of that? He's obviously still juicing like most of the roster.

I don't think you understand the meaning of common sense. I don't remember all of this off the top of my head, you guys are some diehard Jones fans.

 

[Bamboozled]

experts in the field (vada science director) never heard of microdosing tbol. it's generally effective in large doses over long periods of time. and detectable for a long time (even for a single dose).

what is the masking agent that would also have to be undetectable?

and false negative isn't really the appropriate term for undetectable levels of a metabolite.

You lost earlier, but you buried yourself in this post.

appealing to authority on a faulty platform is fucking dumb

@OrwellianNightmare hasn't had a dog in the fight here, you're trying to defend jones. It's k, don't let your bias get in the way of factual info.

 

[kflo]

You lost earlier, but you buried yourself in this post.

appealing to authority on a faulty platform is fucking dumb

lol at lost earlier......

yes, expert statements are meaningless......should be asking shertards instead.......what's your expert opinion on microdosing tbol?

 

[kflo]

Oh yeah that was for Clomid and Letrozole. To keep estrogen down and restart your testosterone after a cycle. So far he's failed tests for a post cycle drug, estrogen control agent, and twice for Turinabol. How are you still defending him? Not to mention the story of him hiding under the octagon for hours to avoid testing. Do you seriously think Jon isn't on something? His test levels are completely messed up and he can't take PCT anymore. You think he's competing clean at a world class level with the test levels of a senile man? If you want to argue that he's no longer on Turinabol and is likely on Tren instead ok. But what is the point of that? He's obviously still juicing like most of the roster.

I don't think you understand the meaning of common sense. I don't remember all of this off the top of my head, you guys are some diehard Jones fans.

i'm correcting your factual inaccuracies.

not sure why you'd have a problem with that.

 

[Paolo Delutis]

Probably means other than trace amounts of turinabol, he was mostly clean in the DC fights and all of his fights.

It'd be like taking microdoses of TRT and expecting you to feel drastically different compared to before.

Still cheating tho...u cant have a banned substance in you Period......

 

[kflo]

Still cheating tho...u cant have a banned substance in you Period......

it was a violation and why he was suspended.

it doesn't mean it's why he finished him in the cage.

(we'll prob never know)....

 

[OrwellianNightmare]

So tell me. Do you actually believe Jon is innocent? Otherwise, you're just being a pest. Appealing to Vada to argue that Turinabol can't be masked as one of the poster said above is just grasping at straws. Jon just happened to be an innocent victim with a rare case of Tbol Metabolites lasting up to a year? 40-50 days was the testing window for the long term metabolites. How many cases were there of Tbol metabolites being tested one year after admission? Also, how do you explain the fact that he passed all 10 tests prior to competition, including when he was cutting weight and dehydrated, but failed the post fight test when he was hydrated?

 

[Paolo Delutis]

it was a violation and why he was suspended.

it doesn't mean it's why he finished him in the cage.

(we'll prob never know)....

It affected his training therefore the result of the fight is and will be contested forever....maybe without it jones isnt as aggressive or maybe he doesnt get as much sparring in therefore his timing isnt as good going into the fight...we just dont know...

But we do know he took peds... And that is wrong under any amount or duration

 

[kflo]

It affected his training therefore the result of the fight is and will be contested forever....maybe without it jones isnt as aggressive or maybe he doesnt get as much sparring in therefore his timing isnt as good going into the fight...we just dont know...

But we do know he took peds... And that is wrong under any amount or duration

you don't know when or how much was ever ingested or how it affected his training. just that it was unlikely that he was taking it leading up to the fight based on his test result history.

i know it taints him to have had it in his system. i think people imply too much based on what little we know.