What are they planning in the next 14 years?

[TheComebackKid]

Why stop at criticism of the Catholic church? ALL Christian sects exploit their followers for monetary gain. Without exception. Selling people salvation you receive only after you die yet empty your wallet while living (which is un-taxed in the US) is the greatest scam in all of history. If a god was real there wouldn't be a need for money much less "church leaders" who speak on said god's behalf whose message is always "pay me money so I can judge your sins and tell you more about what god says."

You are correct which is why I don't take my cues from worldly Christian leaders and I would advise others not to either.

 

[IDL]

Walter Sobchak does not approve of your message

He lost. Victors control the historical narrative.

What are the odds of it not being blown out of proportion. That's the spoils of war.

 

[colby25]

He lost. Victors control the historical narrative.

What are the odds of it not being blown out of proportion. That's the spoils of war.

Is this what were resorting to now? Adolph Hitler wasn't that bad?

You guys call me a conspiracy nut and then turn around and say the Holocaust wasn't that bad and it was more than likely blown out of proportion.

As the old saying goes history repeats itself and I'd imagine it's because how quickly people forget or down play such events as Hitlers reign.

 

[smithwick]

You are correct which is why I don't take my cues from worldly Christian leaders and I would advise others not to either.

What is the source of all the rest of your ridiculous beliefs that happen to align exactly with the doctrine of these "wordly Christian leaders."

 

[TheComebackKid]

What is the source of all the rest of your ridiculous beliefs that happen to align exactly with the doctrine of these "wordly Christian leaders."

Which beliefs are you referring to?

 

[Bay Area]

Why stop at criticism of the Catholic church? ALL Christian sects exploit their followers for monetary gain. Without exception. Selling people salvation you receive only after you die yet empty your wallet while living (which is un-taxed in the US) is the greatest scam in all of history. If a god was real there wouldn't be a need for money much less "church leaders" who speak on said god's behalf whose message is always "pay me money so I can judge your sins and tell you more about what god says."

None of those are Christians. They are Charismatics, who preach the power of self, AKA Satanists. I'm not religious myself, but at least protestants and Baptists believe in following the Book and understanding it for yourself. And not to follow humans...who are all basically sinners.

 

[Bay Area]

Here is some of Joel's new age, self affirmation teaching. Basically saying that you can shape your life. No where in this clip does he speak about Jesus Christ changing your life. Basically he tells the audience that they can change their lives themselves. New Age philosophy.

 

[Final Rehab]

I base it on my interpretation of what I believe is the truth. Also I have experience with vague Deism and Spiriruality and it leaves you unfulfilled, dissatisfied, and with no answers. Why? Because God has a specific character and specific way you go about getting to know Him and thus yourself. That way doesn't include mocking and dismissing his Word and reducing Him to some vague and undefined concept

Well you couldn't possibly be more wrong about that if you tried but how nice of you to assume that I'm unhappy and confused LOL. Since I entered the spiritual phase of my life a bit over ten years ago my life has been nothing short of amazing. I'm getting everything I could want from a life filled with love and laughter, and I've done it without that tethers of Biblical doctrine, go figure, huh? (More on that in a bit.) Just because I see the Bible as words written by men that doesn't make my God vague or undefined, I just don't accept that particular definition. As for as getting answers, what does that even mean? Feel free to enlighten me as to what mysteries of existence the Bible has provided you, and I'm not talking about "the Bible says this so I know it's true".

Also you're clearly presuming to know the mind of God in your post, which is a big no no in your Bible, just sayin'.

I don't mean to be rude or arrogant...just not sugarcoating things

I wouldn't say you're being rude but there must be a heck of a view from that high horse you've perched yourself on.

Its not arrogance that makes me call that particular spiritual view as futile...its what I believe. I'm also making this prediction so when the day comes where Dip, and yourself, wake up and realize you are no closer to being satitisfied and having your questions answered you will think of me and then of the Bible.

If that's your belief fine. However...here's an interesting possibility...you're wrong.

I'm no theologian but I've read extensively from the Bible, Koran, and many other religious textbooks. The thing about the Bible is, it's a primitive, sometimes barbaric tome (don't get me started on the Koran, but that's another story). There are some lessons of universal morality in there, but there's also numerous passages advocating murder, rape, slavery, genocide, and a host of other odious activities. There also are several passages that seem oddly preoccupied with a woman's menstruation. Sorry but I don't see that an infinitely intelligent, all-powerful Creator of all existence would be that bothered by a woman's period. By logical extension, if you posit that there are passages in the Bible that weren't divinely inspired, doesn't it call the whole thing into question?

Another irony I'd like to point out is that while we in the West might look at a country like Saudi Arabia as barbaric in their customs, they're actually just following all the tenets of their holy book, not just picking and choosing like Western Christians tend to do.

So, do I think that the Bible is useless? Not at all, I think it should be read by anyone on a spiritual journey and it offers insight into the spiritual evolution of humanity 2000 years ago. That doesn't make it a "how to" book though. If you went to a doctor for some ailment would you like for him to treat you from a 2000 year old medical book? There's nothing wrong with a progressive view of spirituality man, in fact I think it's entirely necessary for mankind to move out of the spiritual dark ages, although it sure hasn't happened yet. I'm afraid that strict adherence to ancient tests comes across to me as rather cult-like.

 

[The Diplomat]

Diplomat doesn't seem to have the cognitive ability to grasp the difference between believing the Bible and being part of an organized group.

Says he doesn't follow organized religion. Continues to judge others based on their own spirituality and says that the Christian Bible is the only truth from God because it's what he believes.

 

[colby25]

I'm no theologian but I've read extensively from the Bible, Koran, and many other religious textbooks. The thing about the Bible is, it's a primitive, sometimes barbaric tome (don't get me started on the Koran, but that's another story). There are some lessons of universal morality in there, but there's also numerous passages advocating murder, rape, slavery, genocide, and a host of other odious activities. There also are several passages that seem oddly preoccupied with a woman's menstruation. Sorry but I don't see that an infinitely intelligent, all-powerful Creator of all existence would be that bothered by a woman's period. By logical extension, if you posit that there are passages in the Bible that weren't divinely inspired, doesn't it call the whole thing into question?

Another irony I'd like to point out is that while we in the West might look at a country like Saudi Arabia as barbaric in their customs, they're actually just following all the tenets of their holy book, not just picking and choosing like Western Christians tend to do.

So, do I think that the Bible is useless? Not at all, I think it should be read by anyone on a spiritual journey and it offers insight into the spiritual evolution of humanity 2000 years ago. That doesn't make it a "how to" book though. If you went to a doctor for some ailment would you like for him to treat you from a 2000 year old medical book? There's nothing wrong with a progressive view of spirituality man, in fact I think it's entirely necessary for mankind to move out of the spiritual dark ages, although it sure hasn't happened yet. I'm afraid that strict adherence to ancient tests comes across to me as rather cult-like.

Can you write down the passages that you find barbaric? And what passages from the bible are you referring to?

 

[Final Rehab]

Can you write down the passages that you find barbaric? And what passages from the bible are you referring to?

Sure, and I'm interested in your feedback. Here's a small sampling.

“This is what the Lord Almighty says... ‘Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’” (1 Samuel 15:3)

I mean geez, even the donkeys? Seems excessive if you ask me.

“Do not allow a sorceress to live.” (Exodus 22:18)

How many innocent people were murdered due to that simple sentence?

“Happy is he who repays you for what you have done to us – he who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks.” (Psalm 137:9)

That just seems mean.

‘Take your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt-offering on one of the mountains that I shall show you.’ (Genesis 22:2)

Ok I know that God took it back at the last minute but it's the worst practical joke ever.

“Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the cruel.” (1 Peter 2:18)
Exodus 21:20-21 – "If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property."
Colossians 3:22-24 – "Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything; and do it, not only when their eye is on you and to win their favor, but with sincerity of heart and reverence for the Lord. Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for men, since you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a reward. It is the Lord Christ you are serving."
Ephesians 6:5 - "Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ."
1 Peter 2:13 - "Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every authority instituted among men: whether to the king, as the supreme authority."
1 Peter 2:18 - "Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh."
1 Timothy 6:1 - "1 All who are under the yoke of slavery should consider their masters worthy of full respect, so that God's name and our teaching may not be slandered."
Leviticus 25:44-46 – Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. You can will them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.
Deuteronomy 20:10-15 – When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. When the LORD your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the LORD your God gives you from your enemies. This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby.

I think we can all agree that slavery is barbaric, right? The Bible sure seems OK with it.

Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children. (Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT)

Yeah that's pretty messed up.

That's just a little bit Colby. Maybe there's some context to all of that but then you could argue context with anything the Bible says. Again, I think reading the Bible is important to anyone exploring human spirituality but as a rulebook? I don't see how you can throw the bad stuff out and use the parts you like with any credibility.

Then, as I alluded to earlier, there's this stuff...

Leviticus 15:19-30 “When a woman has a discharge, and the discharge in her body is blood, she shall be in her menstrual impurity for seven days, and whoever touches her shall be unclean until the evening. And everything on which she lies during her menstrual impurity shall be unclean. Everything also on which she sits shall be unclean. And whoever touches her bed shall wash his clothes and bathe himself in water and be unclean until the evening. And whoever touches anything on which she sits shall wash his clothes and bathe himself in water and be unclean until the evening. Whether it is the bed or anything on which she sits, when he touches it he shall be unclean until the evening. ...
Leviticus 20:18
If a man lies with a woman during her menstrual period and uncovers her nakedness, he has made naked her fountain, and she has uncovered the fountain of her blood. Both of them shall be cut off from among their people.
Leviticus 15:19-24
“When a woman has a discharge, and the discharge in her body is blood, she shall be in her menstrual impurity for seven days, and whoever touches her shall be unclean until the evening. And everything on which she lies during her menstrual impurity shall be unclean. Everything also on which she sits shall be unclean. And whoever touches her bed shall wash his clothes and bathe himself in water and be unclean until the evening. And whoever touches anything on which she sits shall wash his clothes and bathe himself in water and be unclean until the evening. Whether it is the bed or anything on which she sits, when he touches it he shall be unclean until the evening. ...
Ezekiel 36:17
“Son of man, when the house of Israel lived in their own land, they defiled it by their ways and their deeds. Their ways before me were like the uncleanness of a woman in her menstrual impurity.
Luke 8:43-46
And there was a woman who had had a discharge of blood for twelve years, and though she had spent all her living on physicians, she could not be healed by anyone. She came up behind him and touched the fringe of his garment, and immediately her discharge of blood ceased. And Jesus said, “Who was it that touched me?” When all denied it, Peter said, “Master, the crowds surround you and are pressing in on you!” But Jesus said, “Someone touched me, for I perceive that power has gone out from me.”
Leviticus 18:19
“You shall not approach a woman to uncover her nakedness while she is in her menstrual uncleanness.
Ezekiel 18:6
If he does not eat upon the mountains or lift up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel, does not defile his neighbor's wife or approach a woman in her time of menstrual impurity,
Leviticus 15:28-30
But if she is cleansed of her discharge, she shall count for herself seven days, and after that she shall be clean. And on the eighth day she shall take two turtledoves or two pigeons and bring them to the priest, to the entrance of the tent of meeting. And the priest shall use one for a sin offering and the other for a burnt offering. And the priest shall make atonement for her before the Lord for her unclean discharge.
Ezekiel 22:10
In you men uncover their fathers' nakedness; in you they violate women who are unclean in their menstrual impurity.
Genesis 31:35
And she said to her father, “Let not my lord be angry that I cannot rise before you, for the way of women is upon me.” So he searched but did not find the household gods.
Genesis 18:11
Now Abraham and Sarah were old, advanced in years. The way of women had ceased to be with Sarah.
Leviticus 15:24
And if any man lies with her and her menstrual impurity comes upon him, he shall be unclean seven days, and every bed on which he lies shall be unclean.
Leviticus 15:1-33
The Lord spoke to Moses and Aaron, saying, “Speak to the people of Israel and say to them, When any man has a discharge from his body, his discharge is unclean. And this is the law of his uncleanness for a discharge: whether his body runs with his discharge, or his body is blocked up by his discharge, it is his uncleanness. Every bed on which the one with the discharge lies shall be unclean, and everything on which he sits shall be unclean. And anyone who touches his bed shall wash his clothes and bathe himself in water and be unclean until the evening. ...

Like I said, if you thing the Bible is the actual word of God then He sure seems to be preoccupied with a woman's period. Can you see why I see the Bible, for whatever merits it may have, to be words of men, and not particularly enlightened ones at that?

 

[TheComebackKid]

Well you couldn't possibly be more wrong about that if you tried but how nice of you to assume that I'm unhappy and confused LOL.

I didn't say unhappy and confused Rehab. I said "dissatisfied, unfulfilled, and with no answers". And I said that in regards to spiritual matters not overall happiness or sadness. You often change what I say ever so slightly and then argue against that. Strawman is what we call that.

Since I entered the spiritual phase of my life a bit over ten years ago my life has been nothing short of amazing. I'm getting everything I could want from a life filled with love and laughter, and I've done it without that tethers of Biblical doctrine, go figure, huh? (More on that in a bit.)

Well I'm happy to hear that but I must say often times your posting gives of a very different impression. You sure you're not overstating things?

Also, knowing the truth and having a relationship with God doesn't mean you live an amazing life filled with love and laughter. It often times means your life becomes more challenging. You have peace in your soul but the actual road you have to walk is more difficult and not something you can hold up for others and say "see...look how wonderful my life is and all of this love and laughter I enjoy! Yippee!!".

Just because I see the Bible as words written by men that doesn't make my God vague or undefined, I just don't accept that particular definition.

Ok so then describe and define him for all of us so we know who or what you are referring to when you say "my God". Because right now he just seems like this vague undefined entity.

As for as getting answers, what does that even mean? Feel free to enlighten me as to what mysteries of existence the Bible has provided you, and I'm not talking about "the Bible says this so I know it's true".

Answers to the questions of who we are, where we come from, why we're here, whats beyond this life, and what is the true nature of existence. Stuff like that.

Also you're clearly presuming to know the mind of God in your post, which is a big no no in your Bible, just sayin'.

I'm deciding to believe his mind is how its presented in the Bible because I believe that is his Word. How that is a no no only Rehab could know.

I'm no theologian but I've read extensively from the Bible, Koran, and many other religious textbooks. The thing about the Bible is, it's a primitive, sometimes barbaric tome (don't get me started on the Koran, but that's another story). There are some lessons of universal morality in there, but there's also numerous passages advocating murder, rape, slavery, genocide, and a host of other odious activities. There also are several passages that seem oddly preoccupied with a woman's menstruation. Sorry but I don't see that an infinitely intelligent, all-powerful Creator of all existence would be that bothered by a woman's period. By logical extension, if you posit that there are passages in the Bible that weren't divinely inspired, doesn't it call the whole thing into question?

It's all context and understanding my friend. Those passages you refer don't bother me becasue I understand the big picture those passages are addressing.

So, do I think that the Bible is useless? Not at all, I think it should be read by anyone on a spiritual journey and it offers insight into the spiritual evolution of humanity 2000 years ago. That doesn't make it a "how to" book though. If you went to a doctor for some ailment would you like for him to treat you from a 2000 year old medical book? There's nothing wrong with a progressive view of spirituality man, in fact I think it's entirely necessary for mankind to move out of the spiritual dark ages, although it sure hasn't happened yet. I'm afraid that strict adherence to ancient tests comes across to me as rather cult-like.

I understand that you view the Bible as old, outdated, not true, and "cult-like". You make this point in every single post you make. I understand that you feel like there is value in other forms of spirituality, worship, and beliefs. I believe that when you urge me to consider these others things it highlights your lack of understanding of what the Bible actually teaches. These other forms of spiritualtiy, worship, and beliefs are the entire reason and basis for this separation from God to begin with. To accept, worship, or believe occult teachings, gods, and other figures is to betray the true living God and my own salvation. It is to allow myself to be spiritually corrupted. And I'm not going to allow that. Call that arrogant or being on a high horse if you like but i call it true belief and true faith. Not this watered down, change with the wind, define God how however makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside form of "spirituality".

 

[TheComebackKid]

Says he doesn't follow organized religion. Continues to judge others based on their own spirituality and says that the Christian Bible is the only truth from God because it's what he believes.

I don't follow an organized religion and I don't judge others based on their spirituality. You seem to be getting increasingly dishonest these days I'm noticing.

 

[The Diplomat]

I don't follow an organized religion and I don't judge others based on their spirituality. You seem to be getting increasingly dishonest these days I'm noticing.

You said that my deistic views would leave me unfulfilled as opposed to the Christian God and Bible.

 

[colby25]

Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.

Now you think this is a horrible command by God, but before you do that you should look up the history and the practices by the Amalekites. These pagan nations often practiced human sacrifice and sacrifice their own children. They would have these statues of Baal and they would heat it up with fire until it's molten hot. And this statue would have his arms stretched out and they would rest their babies on it as a way to sacrifice them to Baal. Very evil wicked thing.

So very evil nation they were. God is a loving and merciful God but also he is a righteous and just God. Sometimes extreme actions need to be taken against evil.

“Happy is he who repays you for what you have done to us – he who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks.” (Psalm 137:9)

Why and try re invent the wheel? I'll let you know what Chuck Smith has to say:

Now in the New Testament, we are taught to love our enemies. These expressions of the psalmist really are not expressions of God in the sense that God never delights in judgment. God never delights in bringing His judgment upon a people or upon a nation. And yet, we so often want to see the judgment of God fall upon the head of the wicked. We can hardly wait for the day of God's judgment. But God is not anxious to judge at all. God would much rather show mercy, for His mercy endureth forever. And God delights in mercy.

You remember when God sent Jonah to Nineveh to warn that city, the Assyrian capital, of the impending doom, the judgment of God that was coming. Jonah didn't want to go. Why? He was afraid if he went, they might repent and God wouldn't judge them. He wanted to see God's judgment on Assyria. He wanted to see Nineveh wiped out. And so to help ensure God's judgment against them, he tried to take off for England so he could escape the call of God. And later on, when under pressure and duress, he went to Nineveh and they did repent in sackcloth and ashes before the Lord, and God's mercy was extended to them, he got angry with God. Went out and sat under a tree and said, "Okay, God, just wipe me out." And God said, "What's the matter? Is it right for you to be so angry?" "You bet you are. I knew that You were merciful. I knew. I was afraid this was going to happen. They were going to repent and then You weren't going to wipe them out." And he was angry because God's judgment didn't fall. But God isn't anxious to judge.

I think that we oftentimes have a false concept in our mind concerning God, that He is just sort of standing over us with a club, waiting to bash us for the first wrong move. Not so. God is desiring to show His mercy unto you and He's just looking for an excuse. He's just looking for you to give Him an excuse to say, "Well, that's al right. I forgive you." Just looking for you to say, "Oh God, I'm sorry." For His mercy endureth forever.

So the psalmist expresses, actually, a glee in the destruction that is to come upon Babylon, but it is not really the expression of God's heart when the judgment will fall. I'm sure that God always weeps over judgment. We find Jesus looking over the city of Jerusalem and weeping. Why? Because of the judgment that was going to come upon the city. "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, if you'd only known the things that belong to your peace at least in this thy day. And now they are hid from your eyes, and your little children are going to dashed in the streets" (Luke 19:42, 44). And He's weeping as He speaks of the judgment that is going to. It's not a gleeful thing, "All right, you know, we'll get even with you. You reject Me, you crucify Me. We'll take care of you, you know. We'll put you up on a Roman giblet and see how you like it." Not at all. It's weeping. Weeping because their actions necessitate the judgment of God. But weeping over the judgment. And I'm certain that whenever God is forced to judge that there's always a great sorrow in the heart of God. ​

Take your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt-offering on one of the mountains that I shall show you.’ (Genesis 22:2)

This was actual a foreshadow of things to come. that God would sacrifice His own Son for us. When we read about it- We say ah man how could God ask someone to do that? But guess what He didn't make Him do it...He stopped it. And actually God loved you so much that He did sacrifice His son for you. That's how much He loves you. Even right now when you are mocking bible scriptures, He loves you. He foresaw this and is still said you know what? I'm going to give Final Rehab a chance still. For God so loved the world He gave His only son that anyone who believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life.

That shows you how much God loves you. You know what? I love a lot of people in my life but I cant think of one where I'd be willing to give up my only son for. The amount of love God has for us cannot be expressed.

ink we can all agree that slavery is barbaric, right? The Bible sure seems OK with it.

Slavery in biblical days was much different than the slavery we saw in the U.S. For instance we see Jacob sell himself into slavery so that he can marry Rachel. In those days it was not uncommon for a man to sell himself to either provide for himself or his family or to barter. I'll do 'x' amount of years in return to having 'x'

Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children. (Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT)

Here Isaiah is prophesying the coming destructing by the Babylon's and what they will do to the Jews and Israel. Not pretty but Babylon did overrun Israel back in the day.

hat's just a little bit Colby. Maybe there's some context to all of that but then you could argue context with anything the Bible says. Again, I think reading the Bible is important to anyone exploring human spirituality but as a rulebook? I don't see how you can throw the bad stuff out and use the parts you like with any credibility.

Then, as I alluded to earlier, there's this stuff...


Like I said, if you thing the Bible is the actual word of God then He sure seems to be preoccupied with a woman's period. Can you see why I see the Bible, for whatever merits it may have, to be words of men, and not particularly enlightened ones at that?

Old Testament is history of what happened with those who either followed God or decided not to follow God and the repercussions. Leviticus law does not apply to Christians today. Many of the dietary laws and rituals were given to the Israelites to separate themselves from the pagan culture, the same culture that sacrificed children.

Many of the stories told about weren't always approved by God. For example David and Bathsheba and the Lord rebuked david for murder and adultery. Old Testament is like a history book of events that happened. You want to know how to live your life? Read the New Testament.

 

[Final Rehab]

I didn't say unhappy and confused Rehab. I said "dissatisfied, unfulfilled, and with no answers". And I said that in regards to spiritual matters not overall happiness or sadness. You often change what I say ever so slightly and then argue against that. Strawman is what we call that.

How is "dissatisfied and unfulfilled" not unhappy? How is "having no answers" not confused? If I change words it's because I'm not a parrot and it reads better but I stand by my interpretation of your implication. I'm not changing the meaning of your statements, so no strawman.

Well I'm happy to hear that but I must say often times your posting gives of a very different impression. You sure you're not overstating things?

Sorry I don't understand what you're saying here.

Also, knowing the truth and having a relationship with God doesn't mean you live an amazing life filled with love and laughter. It often times means your life becomes more challenging. You have peace in your soul but the actual road you have to walk is more difficult and not something you can hold up for others and say "see...look how wonderful my life is and all of this love and laughter I enjoy! Yippee!!".

Look, I know life is full of pain. My father was shot to death, my family has dealt with drug addiction, my wife was a victim of childhood abuse, etc. It is my spirituality that has allowed me to overcome these things and find peace in life. I don't appreciate you mocking me. I've seen plenty of pain.

Ok so then describe and define him for all of us so we know who or what you are referring to when you say "my God". Because right now he just seems like this vague undefined entity.

Your mind is no more capable of understanding the Creator than mine. I seem to be the one who acknowledges this. I just haven't decided to choose one book out of all the others and plant my flag there. I mean seriously, what do you expect me to come up with? Other than quoting scripture, what would you say?

Answers to the questions of who we are, where we come from, why we're here, whats beyond this life, and what is the true nature of existence. Stuff like that.

Those aren't answers, those are ideas. The Muslim, Hindu, etc. would point to their book and say you're dead wrong.

I'm deciding to believe his mind is how its presented in the Bible because I believe that is his Word. How that is a no no only Rehab could know.

Yeah, or it's in the Bible.

“For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God” (1 Corinthians 2:10-12).

Paul explained that the only way for man to know the mind of God is for the Holy Spirit to reveal it. Today, that revelation is found in the Scriptures (2 Timothy 3:16). It is not only erroneous, but also dangerous to the fate of our eternal souls, to go beyond the Scriptures and presume to know the mind of God. Let us notice how we may, if we are not careful, be guilty of this.

It's all context and understanding my friend. Those passages you refer don't bother me becasue I understand the big picture those passages are addressing.

That's one way of saying it. Another way of saying it is that you dismiss certain passages that don't fit your narrative. Someone else probably doesn't let disagreeable passages bother them when it doesn't fit their spiritual paradigm.

I understand that you view the Bible as old, outdated, not true, and "cult-like". You make this point in every single post you make. I understand that you feel like there is value in other forms of spirituality, worship, and beliefs. I believe that when you urge me to consider these others things it highlights your lack of understanding of what the Bible actually teaches. These other forms of spiritualtiy, worship, and beliefs are the entire reason and basis for this separation from God to begin with. To accept, worship, or believe occult teachings, gods, and other figures is to betray the true living God and my own salvation. It is to allow myself to be spiritually corrupted. And I'm not going to allow that. Call that arrogant or being on a high horse if you like but i call it true belief and true faith.

I think that there are a whole lot of people with a whole lot of opinions on what the Bible really teaches who would say that you misunderstand. I'm aware that the Bible says to disregard all other forms of worship, both the ones that predate Christianity by centuries and those that have arisen since it's inception. I don't subscribe to that philosophy.

Not this watered down, change with the wind, define God how however makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside form of "spirituality".

That's a fucked up way to characterize my spirituality friend. Shame on you.

@colby25 That was a good post man, thanks, you really know your stuff. I'm dealing with the flu right now and TCK took up all of my current posting energy LOL but I'll respond in more detail when I feel up to it. I appreciate your perspective, and I'm totally cool with the New Testament.

 

[TheComebackKid]

How is "dissatisfied and unfulfilled" not unhappy? How is "having no answers" not confused? If I change words it's because I'm not a parrot and it reads better but I stand by my interpretation of your implication. I'm not changing the meaning of your statements, so no strawman.

Again, I said dissatisfied and unfulfilled in regards to spiritual matters. Whether or not that bleeds over into your overall happiness as a human being and quality of life depends on how committed you are to finding the "truth".

If you are seriously committed to your spirituality, which I presume you are, then I fear you will become increasingly dissatisfied in that regard. And that may make you unhappy...or it may not. A slight and subtle difference but a difference nonetheless.

Sorry I don't understand what you're saying here.

I often times read your posts and do not get the impression that you are a completely happy individual living a life of love and laughter. Perhaps you do but I'm just saying that sometimes you come across as angry and inebriated...not happy and full of love. And I wonder if you overstate how happy you are in an effort to support your form of spirituality.

I hope you don't take any of that as me judging you. I've had a long road myself and I still trip over hurdles everyday. I'm giving you my honest impression which I understand could be incorrect.

Look, I know life is full of pain. My father was shot to death, my family has dealt with drug addiction, my wife was a victim of childhood abuse, etc. It is my spirituality that has allowed me to overcome these things and find peace in life. I don't appreciate you mocking me. I've seen plenty of pain.

I'm sorry to hear that and I'm glad that you have found peace in your life. I couldn't imagine dealing with some of that. But I never suggested you don't know or understand pain. I was merely making the point that being a Christian doesn't make someone's life automatically without struggles and trials...it doesn't necessarily become "happy and full of love".

Your mind is no more capable of understanding the Creator than mine. I seem to be the one who acknowledges this. I just haven't decided to choose one book out of all the others and plant my flag there. I mean seriously, what do you expect me to come up with? Other than quoting scripture, what would you say?

You can't have it both ways man. Etiher you understand the Creator or you don't. You like to say what your God would and wouldn't do or what he would and wouldn't be like. But when challenged on it you fall back and say "cmon TCK...none of us can know God". Well alright then...stop saying God wouldn't write a book or wouldn't do this or wouldn't do that. If you don't know God then you can't say one way or another what he would do.

Yeah, or it's in the Bible.

“For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God” (1 Corinthians 2:10-12).

Paul explained that the only way for man to know the mind of God is for the Holy Spirit to reveal it. Today, that revelation is found in the Scriptures (2 Timothy 3:16). It is not only erroneous, but also dangerous to the fate of our eternal souls, to go beyond the Scriptures and presume to know the mind of God. Let us notice how we may, if we are not careful, be guilty of this.

You know what...you got me with another one of your strawmen. When you originally suggested that I am "presuming to know the mind of God" you were pulling a strawman. I never mentioned the mind of God but rather His character and how one goes about getting to know Him.

So yes, the Bible doesn't teach the mind of God but rather His character, who He is, and how we go about getting to know Him.

That's one way of saying it. Another way of saying it is that you dismiss certain passages that don't fit your narrative.

That is saying two totally different things.

That's a fucked up way to characterize my spirituality friend. Shame on you.

You keep taking offense to points that I make as if I'm making them as an insult to you. I'm not. I'm just being honest. If I walk outside and sing my favorite Mariah Carey song and someone says that I don't understand how to sing should I respond with "thats a fucked up way to characterize my singing friend" or should I consider his point of view and perhaps learn from it?

 

[The ScorpioN]

If all of this is predicted by the Bible, then technically speaking, for the hard core believers, wouldn't it be a good thing? I know some people have been waiting for the end of the world for centuries now and search for any and everything that could be seen as such, but if some kind of Biblical prophecy were to come true, wouldn't that make Christians happy? Because if it not, it would mean the prophecies are false.

No no, I don't think you understand. Biblical prophecies (or anything in the Bible really) are never false. It's just misinterpreted or misunderstood.

 

[The Diplomat]

No no, I don't think you understand. Biblical prophecies (or anything in the Bible really) are never false. It's just misinterpreted or misunderstood.

So if the prophecies aren't false, then one should hope it happens.

 

[Final Rehab]

Again, I said dissatisfied and unfulfilled in regards to spiritual matters. Whether or not that bleeds over into your overall happiness as a human being and quality of life depends on how committed you are to finding the "truth".

If you are seriously committed to your spirituality, which I presume you are, then I fear you will become increasingly dissatisfied in that regard. And that may make you unhappy...or it may not. A slight and subtle difference but a difference nonetheless.

Allright then. I still say your comment was a veiled put-down but I'll call a truce on this one.

I often times read your posts and do not get the impression that you are a completely happy individual living a life of love and laughter. Perhaps you do but I'm just saying that sometimes you come across as angry and inebriated...not happy and full of love. And I wonder if you overstate how happy you are in an effort to support your form of spirituality.

I hope you don't take any of that as me judging you. I've had a long road myself and I still trip over hurdles everyday. I'm giving you my honest impression which I understand could be incorrect.

Aaahhh, I understand. I have dealt with anger issues all my life, I don't know where it comes from. Perhaps it's why I've always been drawn to things like MMA. There's always been something cathartic about squaring off against another dude and beating each other's ass. Then you don't go home and take it out on people you love. (And my sparring partners/opponents have always ended up being my best friends). My spirituality has helped me deal with this but I do sometimes self-medicate and while most of the time everything is great, sometimes the demon comes out. Often when I post here it's similar to sparring, I argue here so I don't go start a fight over nothing with my sweet wife. I assure you that despite my flaws I consider this life a blessing and I am happy and grateful for every moment of this awesome life.

I'm sorry to hear that and I'm glad that you have found peace in your life. I couldn't imagine dealing with some of that. But I never suggested you don't know or understand pain. I was merely making the point that being a Christian doesn't make someone's life automatically without struggles and trials...it doesn't necessarily become "happy and full of love".

Cool, no worries man.

You can't have it both ways man. Etiher you understand the Creator or you don't. You like to say what your God would and wouldn't do or what he would and wouldn't be like. But when challenged on it you fall back and say "cmon TCK...none of us can know God". Well alright then...stop saying God wouldn't write a book or wouldn't do this or wouldn't do that. If you don't know God then you can't say one way or another what he would do.

I'm going to give you that one. Because I'm happy and full of love of course.

You know what...you got me with another one of your strawmen. When you originally suggested that I am "presuming to know the mind of God" you were pulling a strawman. I never mentioned the mind of God but rather His character and how one goes about getting to know Him.

So yes, the Bible doesn't teach the mind of God but rather His character, who He is, and how we go about getting to know Him.

You're abusing the term "strawman". To know one's character is to know one's mind. No strawman.

You keep taking offense to points that I make as if I'm making them as an insult to you. I'm not. I'm just being honest. If I walk outside and sing my favorite Mariah Carey song and someone says that I don't understand how to sing should I respond with "thats a fucked up way to characterize my singing friend" or should I consider his point of view and perhaps learn from it?

Come on man, "watered down", "change with the wind", "warm and fuzzy"? Those were passive-aggressive insults towards my spirituality.