Weight classes are no longer necessary -- there's a better way

[McGruber]

155, 170, 185, 205, 205+. We don't need to monitor weights for "fairness". That's bullshit. If a fighter is too small, gain weight. If he's too heavy: Lose weight. Simple.

If you want to get rid of dangerous water cutting: Hydration testing. Save the money spent on bullshit PED testing and use it for something which actually helps fighters.

 

[chamcham]

Replace weight class with strength class.

 

[20falarVerdades]

Fighters often balloon up in weight when they are not fighting, and that can actually be a good thing due to increased recovery, less chance of injury, being able to train with bigger guys etc. Random weigh-ins is a horrible idea

 

[PerpetualWB]

Hydration testing is a good idea and i'd agree. Same for multiple weigh ins, going to fight week/month.
Random weight testing is ridiculous. Again, WHY you can't get some fat and enjoy life if you have no fight booked and you ain't fighting for the next 3 or 4 months? That makes NO SENSE.

Totally disagree about the second part of your post. This isn't reasonable. They're athletes, not slaves.
Woodley for example has no fight booked, if he wants to be 220 lbs, he should be able to. When he gets a fight, then he should walk around lighter, not right now.

How does having to watch your weight (within reasonable parameters) make you a slave rather than an athlete? All jobs have certain requirements and for athletes, not just MMA fighters, staying in some type of shape is one of them. If getting to a certain weight (on a general, not individual, basis) is deemed to be unsafe or too risky, then all fighters should be able to adhere to it. As an example, asking fighters to stay below 110 or 115% percent of the weight of the weight class they are fighting is not unreasonable and would allow fighters to eat plenty. In general, the most effective and important limits on weight cutting are those that drain the body of water and impact the health of fighters. When fighters let their weight get too high, they can't burn off all the fat in time and they are forced to lose more of the weight as water, which is unhealthy. If you don't limit weight outside of camps at all, then it'll be impossible to have healthy late notice fights.

For the record, I think that the fighters should get benefits from the UFC in return for any further restrictions the organization places on them. Part of the issue with restricting the fighters now is that they are offered very little protection and support from the organization relative to most other sports' leagues.

 

[GTS]

I think they should keep the current system but weigh them before the fight just for reference. So if a WW comes in at 170 the day before the fight but over MW weight on fight night, the AC should not sanction them to another WW fight. Basically, if you weight two weight classes or more above the class you're fighting at on fight night, then you are forced to move up one. There does need to be a case-by-case system the AC can use to re-certify a person back to their lighter weight class safely, and a system of allowing a fighter to drop weight classes IF the AC deems it safe.

 

[podsox]

Or ufc could Use a formula like usda to randomly weigh guys throughout the yr. if you aren't within 10-15 pounds of your weight class at random weight checks you have to move up a weight class. Problem solved.

 

[GTS]

How does having to watch your weight (within reasonable parameters) make you a slave rather than an athlete? All jobs have certain requirements and for athletes, not just MMA fighters, staying in some type of shape is one of them. If getting to a certain weight (on a general, not individual, basis) is deemed to be unsafe or too risky, then all fighters should be able to adhere to it. As an example, asking fighters to stay below 110 or 115% percent of the weight of the weight class they are fighting is not unreasonable and would allow fighters to eat plenty. In general, the most effective and important limits on weight cutting are those that drain the body of water and impact the health of fighters. When fighters let their weight get too high, they can't burn off all the fat in time and they are forced to lose more of the weight as water, which is unhealthy. If you don't limit weight outside of camps at all, then it'll be impossible to have healthy late notice fights.

For the record, I think that the fighters should get benefits from the UFC in return for any further restrictions the organization places on them. Part of the issue with restricting the fighters now is that they are offered very little protection and support from the organization relative to most other sports' leagues.

Because there is no real reason for it. You are talking about "When fighters let their weight get too high, they can't burn off all the fat in time" which is something you basically pulled out of your ass, then try and justify that line of thought with talk of late notice fights.
You talk of making fighters (you say "asking", but that's is not what you meant, just a dishonest way of stating it) stay within a percentage of their fighting weight, which is completely unreasonable, despite anything you say. It solves nothing and simply makes the career as a fighter much less attractive. My job requires me to maintain some level of fitness, but the second they start telling me I can't eat what I want I'm out of there as are probably 90% of my co-workers.

 

[Shcooby Dooby Doo]

Hopefully there will be a solution to this.
It pissed me off watching Joe Duffy Vs James Vick. It was like watching a lightweight Vs a middeweight/lightheavyweight.
Then you sometimes have main events with two guys who look drained from their weight cut staggering around after barely 1 round. Luke Rockhold Vs Yoel Romero recently reminded me of that. Up until the cool highlight reel KO from Yoel, the fight looked plodded and lethargic from both of them. They are both getting on in age and are both trying to stay below their optimum weight category (light heavy weight).
A lot of fights lately seem kinda shitty when you can see immediately which fighter looks weakened from the huge weight cut 24 hours previous.
Kevin Lee Vs Tony Ferguson (Lee looked fucked)
Jose Aldo Vs Max Holloway 2 (Jose Aldo looked fucked too)
There are plenty more.

 

[executionermma]

How does having to watch your weight (within reasonable parameters) make you a slave rather than an athlete? All jobs have certain requirements and for athletes, not just MMA fighters, staying in some type of shape is one of them. If getting to a certain weight (on a general, not individual, basis) is deemed to be unsafe or too risky, then all fighters should be able to adhere to it. As an example, asking fighters to stay below 110 or 115% percent of the weight of the weight class they are fighting is not unreasonable and would allow fighters to eat plenty. In general, the most effective and important limits on weight cutting are those that drain the body of water and impact the health of fighters. When fighters let their weight get too high, they can't burn off all the fat in time and they are forced to lose more of the weight as water, which is unhealthy. If you don't limit weight outside of camps at all, then it'll be impossible to have healthy late notice fights.

For the record, I think that the fighters should get benefits from the UFC in return for any further restrictions the organization places on them. Part of the issue with restricting the fighters now is that they are offered very little protection and support from the organization relative to most other sports' leagues.

Agree to disagree about that, like i said, if you have no fight booked, you should be able to have any weight gain you want. Why does it matter to you? In camp, sure, they shouldn't walk around too heavy during it. But after a fight? Imagine a champion being random weight tested after 2 weeks of his fight, when he's celebrating, and he's fined/suspended/stripped because he is heavier than he should. WTF. Absurd. It's irrelevant his weight when he has no fight coming up.

 

[johncola]

bump

 

[johncola]

Hendricks vs Sapp... or gastelum.
Every MW and above would be HW. Fine by me.
No more 125 or even 135.

No they wouldn't. There'd be no MW's and there'd be no HW's.

 

[johncola]

I mean I think you're on to something. I just think they should be weighed 3months prior to a fight multiple times at random. No known weigh in dates because fighters will cut just to make that. There has to be a little wiggle room for the fighters, but ufc can make it work. I actually posted something similar to this today. Keep the weight classes though. The weights allowed to cut needs to be adjusted by weight class. I.E a heavy fighter can healthfully cut more than a lighter fighter. I say for HW's they must be within 15 lbs, and so most would prob walk around 10-13 lbs heavier because it's too risky to walk around at 15 because you may tip the scale.

California has already adopted a system where cut amount is adjusted by weight class. They only allow a fighter to cut a certain percentage of their body weight. Some fighters have been forced up in weight because of this.

Anyway, I don't want to keep weight classes because I think they're a bad thing. They'll always allow for the possibility of weight cutting, and they'll always separate fighters who should be fighting from fighting. Getting rid of weight classes frees up matchmaking and removes weight cutting. Of course removing weight classes comes with disadvantages. But I'm convinced it's still significantly better to not have them than to have them. Convince me otherwise.

 

[johncola]

nick diaz vs brock is something i would pay for

Fight wouldn't happen.

 

[johncola]

height classes?

no classes.

Hopefully you aren't impliying that height doesn't matter though.

Height matters.
Weight matters.
Reach matters.
Boxing skills matter.
KO power matters.
Chins matter.
Wrestling matters.
Submission skills matter.
Cardio matters.

 

[johncola]

Many fighters fall completely out of shape after they fight. Then take 12 week camp to get back into shape.
The weight fluctuation is crazy. Your system would cause a lot of injuries simply because fighters would try to stay in fighting shape to not be forced to a higher weight.

Fighters staying in shape is a good thing. Maintaining a healthy diet and exercise regime is good for all humans, whether they're fighters or not. I think it'll prevent injuries, not cause them. Being healthy is good. Fighters will be able to fight more frequently too. There'd be no pullouts due to botched weight cuts. Fighters would be healthier because they're in better shape, with a better diet, aren't destroying their organs via dehydration and starvation, and even worse aren't getting their brain rattled in fights 1 day after doing so. Fights would also be more entertaining.

I think people are just so used to weight classes being the norm that they don't know there's another way. They're stuck in their ways and afraid of change. They like their their 8 little league tables, or their game of rankings. But fighter health, fight quality, and fight competitiveness is much more important than the game of rankings. My idea improves all of those things.

 

[HIMBOB]

DISCLAIMER: This thread is not about getting rid of weight classes and having all fights be openweight, where anyone can fight anyone, like in the early days.

Click spoiler for full post or see TLDR below:

Spoiler

This is the simplest and easiest way to get rid of weight cutting. We don't need weight classes anymore. They're an outdated idea. Khabib/Max should have happened last weekend, and it's ridiculous that it didn't. Neither Khabib nor Max shoulda been destroying their bodies in the first place; it's all so unnecessary.

Fighters can just be weighed at random times throughout the year. The UFC has a finite (~600) number of fighters on the roster. That's manageable -- instituting and running the USADA drug testing program was/is exponentially more expensive than simply weighing fighters a few times per year. USADA could even be the ones who weigh the fighters.

These weigh-ins would be used to develop a historical record of fighter weights. These weights, along with height and reach stats, would be used for matchmaking. There'd be some sort of formula used to determine what fights can be made, containing all of these size properties. It'd be in fighters' best interests to stay in shape year-round, to create low weight records. This would be a secondary benefit of the new system.

An obvious core benefit of this new system is that matchmaking will have been freed up tremendously. No more divisions, preventing potentially great fights.

NEW RANKING AND TITLE SYSTEM

Yet another benefit of the new system would be the improvement of the existing "game of rankings" that people obsess over.

Titles would still exist, but they wouldn't be attached to any particular weight or size. If at any point two champions exist close enough in size to fight, then there'd be an option to unify the titles if it's deemed necessary. If at any point NO champions exist around a particular size, while there's a clear world class fighter, then that fighter can fight for a new title. There'd be no more need for "interim champions", as champions aren't attached to any particular division. Everyone is either a champion, or in 99% of fighters' cases, not a champion.

Rankings could be replaced by all fighters being "graded", e.g. "entry level, mid level, contender" or "grade 1, 2, 3, 4, 5". This would be far superior to rankings anyway, as it'd prevent fighters from ducking lower ranked opponents. "Mid level" fighters could dominate other "mid level" fighters, and thus earn a "contender" ranking, despite other "contender" fighters refusing to fight them and any other "mid level" fighters. This grading system would have yet another benefit, in that it'd stop certain fans and media members, i.e. Luke Thomas and Jeff Wagenheim, from being so confused about what rankings are for.

In this system, all fighters exist within 1 pool, rather than 8 different pools as they are currently. Within that pool, each fighter would have their grade. So, Overeem would be graded "contender", as would Cejudo. Both would be in the same pool, despite the fact that they can never fight each other. On a website or on TV graphics, the pool could then be filtered by specific criteria, to only display fighters of a certain height, reach, and/or weight, as well as grade. Or it could be filtered by a chosen fighter, showing a result-set containing that fighter alongside all other fighters they're eligible to fight.

TLDR: Weight classes are no longer necessary. Weigh fighters randomly multiple times throughout the year instead to develop historical weight records. This would improve matchmaking and remove weight cutting. A new ranking and title system could be implemented despite the lack of divisions. The current system is outdated, and I think this is the way forward. Don't be afraid of change.

Lost all interest when you included height and reach into the equation.

That's simply retarded.

I'm all for fixing the broken system but height and reach should not be a factor.

 

[johncola]

It's actually a worthy idea but I think you're taking it too far. There should still be weight classes / divisions but they would be based on your average weight (or some other formula that considers your max and min) and they could overlap a bit as well.

Without divisions it would get too weird as you'd have one guy who can fight another guy but can't fight yet another guy that the other guy can fight. Sorry, that is complicated to say but it means that you wouldn't be able to fight all the opponents of anyone you can fight. So there would never be a "neat" way of containing a championship. I realize that the whole idea of weight divisions is artificial, but humans need that sort of structure to digest the entertainment of the sport.

The whole goal of any new scheme should simply be to get rid of unhealthy weight-cutting.

I don't agree that the bolded section is a problem. It makes sense that Fighter A could fight Fighter B, Fighter B could fight Fighter C, but Fighter A can't fight Fighter C. It's honest. All three are different sizes, and placing the three fighters into two different categories is ignoring that reality.

There is absolutely a neat way of "containing" a championship. This way is actually better. It frees things up to allow for more matchmaking possibilities. Every fighter will be eligible to fight for at least one title. I think you're just very used to the way things are (the "divisional hierarchy"), and are trying to apply the current/old way to my suggested system. I think you and everyone should just let that way go. Do you enjoy watching fights? In my suggested system, fighters could fight more often, would fight healthier, would fight in a more entertaining way, and could fighter a greater range of opponents. All fights would still be just as meaningful as they are now. Every fight is an opportunity for a fighter to display their skills. We should be judging fighters by their skills anyway, not their ranking. Rankings are just an ancillary tool.

 

[vcmmafan]

Just adopt ONE Championship system.... eliminate weight cutting by banning dehydrated fighters from weighing in.

Exactly this

 

[johncola]

Lost all interest when you included height and reach into the equation.

That's simply retarded.

I'm all for fixing the broken system but height and reach should not be a factor.

Go on...

 

[johncola]

Just adopt ONE Championship system.... eliminate weight cutting by banning dehydrated fighters from weighing in.

How accurate are hydration tests? Are they 100% foolproof? Can fighters still dehydrate themselves to some extent then pass? Can fighters beat these tests? Will they be able to going forward as technology improves? It'd presumably improve at an even faster pace were the UFC to start doing these hydration tests.