Weight classes are no longer necessary -- there's a better way

[chuckleknuckle]

DISCLAIMER: This thread is not about getting rid of weight classes and having all fights be openweight, where anyone can fight anyone, like in the early days.

Click spoiler for full post or see TLDR below:

Spoiler

This is the simplest and easiest way to get rid of weight cutting. We don't need weight classes anymore. They're an outdated idea. Khabib/Max should have happened last weekend, and it's ridiculous that it didn't. Neither Khabib nor Max shoulda been destroying their bodies in the first place; it's all so unnecessary.

Fighters can just be weighed at random times throughout the year. The UFC has a finite (~600) number of fighters on the roster. That's manageable -- instituting and running the USADA drug testing program was/is exponentially more expensive than simply weighing fighters a few times per year. USADA could even be the ones who weigh the fighters.

These weigh-ins would be used to develop a historical record of fighter weights. These weights, along with height and reach stats, would be used for matchmaking. There'd be some sort of formula used to determine what fights can be made, containing all of these size properties. It'd be in fighters' best interests to stay in shape year-round, to create low weight records. This would be a secondary benefit of the new system.

An obvious core benefit of this new system is that matchmaking will have been freed up tremendously. No more divisions, preventing potentially great fights.

NEW RANKING AND TITLE SYSTEM

Yet another benefit of the new system would be the improvement of the existing "game of rankings" that people obsess over.

Titles would still exist, but they wouldn't be attached to any particular weight or size. If at any point two champions exist close enough in size to fight, then there'd be an option to unify the titles if it's deemed necessary. If at any point NO champions exist around a particular size, while there's a clear world class fighter, then that fighter can fight for a new title. There'd be no more need for "interim champions", as champions aren't attached to any particular division. Everyone is either a champion, or in 99% of fighters' cases, not a champion.

Rankings could be replaced by all fighters being "graded", e.g. "entry level, mid level, contender" or "grade 1, 2, 3, 4, 5". This would be far superior to rankings anyway, as it'd prevent fighters from ducking lower ranked opponents. "Mid level" fighters could dominate other "mid level" fighters, and thus earn a "contender" ranking, despite other "contender" fighters refusing to fight them and any other "mid level" fighters. This grading system would have yet another benefit, in that it'd stop certain fans and media members, i.e. Luke Thomas and Jeff Wagenheim, from being so confused about what rankings are for.

In this system, all fighters exist within 1 pool, rather than 8 different pools as they are currently. Within that pool, each fighter would have their grade. So, Overeem would be graded "contender", as would Cejudo. Both would be in the same pool, despite the fact that they can never fight each other. On a website or on TV graphics, the pool could then be filtered by specific criteria, to only display fighters of a certain height, reach, and/or weight, as well as grade. Or it could be filtered by a chosen fighter, showing a result-set containing that fighter alongside all other fighters they're eligible to fight.

TLDR: Weight classes are no longer necessary. Weigh fighters randomly multiple times throughout the year instead to develop historical weight records. This would improve matchmaking and remove weight cutting. A new ranking and title system could be implemented despite the lack of divisions. The current system is outdated, and I think this is the way forward. Don't be afraid of change.

Fighters are allowed to take time off, eat, be out of camp, gain weight, without being forced into to a weight class much larger the their 'in training' weight.

Fighters should just be put in a height category. It would mean you can weigh whatever the hell you want, eat what and when you want.

Shane Carwin would be champ though...

 

[Bimbo]

The TLDR was pointless here

There's only one weight that matters. It's your weight on fight day. Weight has a huge impact on the fight, especially in mma.
Otherwise people could start do the contrary. Stay skinny or just normal weight when you're not training for a fight, gain weight for the fight and take advantage of your low average weight.

 

[William Huggins]

Fighters are allowed to take time off, eat, be out of camp, gain weight, without being forced into to a weight class much larger the their 'in training' weight.

Fighters should just be put in a height category. It would mean you can weigh whatever the hell you want, eat what and when you want.

Shane Carwin would be champ though...

Shane Carwin cuts height when he's not fighting......he walks around about 6,0, come fight night he's at least 6,4........how's that going to be fair.

BJ Penn would do well.......

 

[daniel san]

develop historical weight records. This would improve matchmaking and remove weight cutting.

So fighters like Rampage och Mark Munoz (though no longer with the UFC) that get obese off-season should somehow become HWs?

 

[Spacelord13]

DJ kicks the fuck out of everybody not named GSP, or Stipe.

Yeah, buddy.

 

[IamStryker]

Get rid of weight cutting but keep weight classes.

 

[bigeastgi43]

DISCLAIMER: This thread is not about getting rid of weight classes and having all fights be openweight, where anyone can fight anyone, like in the early days.

Click spoiler for full post or see TLDR below:

Spoiler

This is the simplest and easiest way to get rid of weight cutting. We don't need weight classes anymore. They're an outdated idea. Khabib/Max should have happened last weekend, and it's ridiculous that it didn't. Neither Khabib nor Max shoulda been destroying their bodies in the first place; it's all so unnecessary.

Fighters can just be weighed at random times throughout the year. The UFC has a finite (~600) number of fighters on the roster. That's manageable -- instituting and running the USADA drug testing program was/is exponentially more expensive than simply weighing fighters a few times per year. USADA could even be the ones who weigh the fighters.

These weigh-ins would be used to develop a historical record of fighter weights. These weights, along with height and reach stats, would be used for matchmaking. There'd be some sort of formula used to determine what fights can be made, containing all of these size properties. It'd be in fighters' best interests to stay in shape year-round, to create low weight records. This would be a secondary benefit of the new system.

An obvious core benefit of this new system is that matchmaking will have been freed up tremendously. No more divisions, preventing potentially great fights.

NEW RANKING AND TITLE SYSTEM

Yet another benefit of the new system would be the improvement of the existing "game of rankings" that people obsess over.

Titles would still exist, but they wouldn't be attached to any particular weight or size. If at any point two champions exist close enough in size to fight, then there'd be an option to unify the titles if it's deemed necessary. If at any point NO champions exist around a particular size, while there's a clear world class fighter, then that fighter can fight for a new title. There'd be no more need for "interim champions", as champions aren't attached to any particular division. Everyone is either a champion, or in 99% of fighters' cases, not a champion.

Rankings could be replaced by all fighters being "graded", e.g. "entry level, mid level, contender" or "grade 1, 2, 3, 4, 5". This would be far superior to rankings anyway, as it'd prevent fighters from ducking lower ranked opponents. "Mid level" fighters could dominate other "mid level" fighters, and thus earn a "contender" ranking, despite other "contender" fighters refusing to fight them and any other "mid level" fighters. This grading system would have yet another benefit, in that it'd stop certain fans and media members, i.e. Luke Thomas and Jeff Wagenheim, from being so confused about what rankings are for.

In this system, all fighters exist within 1 pool, rather than 8 different pools as they are currently. Within that pool, each fighter would have their grade. So, Overeem would be graded "contender", as would Cejudo. Both would be in the same pool, despite the fact that they can never fight each other. On a website or on TV graphics, the pool could then be filtered by specific criteria, to only display fighters of a certain height, reach, and/or weight, as well as grade. Or it could be filtered by a chosen fighter, showing a result-set containing that fighter alongside all other fighters they're eligible to fight.

TLDR: Weight classes are no longer necessary. Weigh fighters randomly multiple times throughout the year instead to develop historical weight records. This would improve matchmaking and remove weight cutting. A new ranking and title system could be implemented despite the lack of divisions. The current system is outdated, and I think this is the way forward. Don't be afraid of change.

I either don't get it or that sounds really bad.

 

[bigeastgi43]

Is not that i'm afraid of change, it's just that you and your idea are really stupid.



Let's say Max Holloway wants to eat a lot of unhealthy food and gain some weight/fat when he has no fight booked, walking around at 190 lbs, that doesn't make him as big as a actual 170er like Woodley or Thompson, there is no fucking problem with weight classes and they will NEVER go away, it's not a outdated concept, it's just a part of the sport, weight is a ENORMOUS advantage in a fight, if you can't understand that go fuck yourself, you're really dumb.



Reading all this non sense like it is some revolutionary idea that will solve all the problems of combat sports is sickening, holy fuck. How can someone be that narcissist? You really think that YOU, that can't understand the simple weight classes need, of ALL people in the fighting business/fandom, is the one that will come with the solution? GTFO

Damn dude, calm your unstable ass down. And I agree with you.

 

[Olka]

It's actually a worthy idea but I think you're taking it too far. There should still be weight classes / divisions but they would be based on your average weight (or some other formula that considers your max and min) and they could overlap a bit as well.

Without divisions it would get too weird as you'd have one guy who can fight another guy but can't fight yet another guy that the other guy can fight. Sorry, that is complicated to say but it means that you wouldn't be able to fight all the opponents of anyone you can fight. So there would never be a "neat" way of containing a championship. I realize that the whole idea of weight divisions is artificial, but humans need that sort of structure to digest the entertainment of the sport.

The whole goal of any new scheme should simply be to get rid of unhealthy weight-cutting.

Yes, without weight classes the belts would likely just travel upwards. Using current weight classes just as an example: A 145:er loses a belt to a lightweight which in turn loses it to a welterweight. Now the 145 guy can't win it back because the weight gap is to big for a match to be sanctioned. Then it travels from the welterweight to a MW to a LHW and ends up at heavyweight where there will either be one guy with lots of belts (or one unified belt) or a lot of belt holders. And then you need to "reprint" belts for the smaller guys which will lead to an inflation of belts given that the ones that previously traveled upwards in the chain hasn't been unified.

 

[executionermma]

How do you really feel?

Damn dude, calm your unstable ass down. And I agree with you.

Lol, sorry. Stupidity is something that really gets me, i started reading that shit and told myself to finish reading it before posting, turns out that idea is so shit it got me really angry.

 

[bigeastgi43]

Lol, sorry. Stupidity is something that really gets me, i started reading that shit and told myself to finish reading it before posting, turns out that idea is so shit it got me really angry.

It was pretty dumb lol

 

[PerpetualWB]

Is not that i'm afraid of change, it's just that you and your idea are really stupid.



Let's say Max Holloway wants to eat a lot of unhealthy food and gain some weight/fat when he has no fight booked, walking around at 190 lbs, that doesn't make him as big as a actual 170er like Woodley or Thompson, there is no fucking problem with weight classes and they will NEVER go away, it's not a outdated concept, it's just a part of the sport, weight is a ENORMOUS advantage in a fight, if you can't understand that go fuck yourself, you're really dumb.

I'm not saying that this guy's idea is the solution but there IS a problem with weight cutting. We see it by how many fights get canceled and how many fighters deteriorate because of it. It is affecting the product that consumers by. Therefore, it's worthwhile to seek to improve the process even if we can't get rid of it.

Max Holloway should not eat a bunch of unhealthy food and get up to 190 pounds if he wants to be a champion. He is a professional athlete.

 

[KingBeef]

nick diaz vs brock is something i would pay for

Then Nate could cut weight and height to fight Bork next.

 

[cooks1]

Idiotic. Using height and reach status to determine matches???? What a fucktard notion.

Cormier would probably never have fought Gus or Jones, and Sherk would fight MM on every card.

Just go to One FC rules---Sorted.

 

[Toco]

so you're saying that it should have weight classes, but regulated by multiple weight tests

Is not that i'm afraid of change, it's just that you and your idea are really stupid.



Let's say Max Holloway wants to eat a lot of unhealthy food and gain some weight/fat when he has no fight booked, walking around at 190 lbs, that doesn't make him as big as a actual 170er like Woodley or Thompson, there is no fucking problem with weight classes and they will NEVER go away, it's not a outdated concept, it's just a part of the sport, weight is a ENORMOUS advantage in a fight, if you can't understand that go fuck yourself, you're really dumb.



Reading all this non sense like it is some revolutionary idea that will solve all the problems of combat sports is sickening, holy fuck. How can someone be that narcissist? You really think that YOU, that can't understand the simple weight classes need, of ALL people in the fighting business/fandom, is the one that will come with the solution? GTFO

just stay in shape all year, shouldn't be hard for a pro fighter

 

[executionermma]

I'm not saying that this guy's idea is the solution but there IS a problem with weight cutting. We see it by how many fights get canceled and how many fighters deteriorate because of it. It is affecting the product that consumers by. Therefore, it's worthwhile to seek to improve the process even if we can't get rid of it.

Max Holloway should not eat a bunch of unhealthy food and get up to 190 pounds if he wants to be a champion. He is a professional athlete.

Sure, weight cutting has some problems, but *dissolving* weight classes would kill the sport. It's the dumbest idea i've ever heard.

And i disagree with you, if someone has no fight booked, why he has to stay in shape? A fighter's career can easily last about 15 years, you want fighters to not have a off-shape time during 15 years? Lol i've no problem with DJ going to 185 lbs if he will be about 140 lbs or so in camp..

just stay in shape all year, shouldn't be hard for a pro fighter

crazy statement, fighters like food as well, read above please

 

[PerpetualWB]

Sure, weight cutting has some problems, but *dissolving* weight classes would kill the sport. It's the dumbest idea i've ever heard.

And i disagree with you, if someone has no fight booked, why he has to stay in shape? A fighter's career can easily last about 15 years, you want fighters to not have a off-shape time during 15 years? Lol i've no problem with DJ going to 185 lbs if he will be about 140 lbs or so in camp..
crazy statement, fighters like food as well, read above please

There's a difference between liking food and eating so much that you have to make unhealthy drastic weight cuts which shorten your career if anything. They are not good for your body and your body can not continue to go back and forth so many times and still be healthy. I don't advocate for eliminating weight classes but I do advocate for limiting weight cuts. Not only would fewer fights be canceled, but fighters would be healthier and we'd see better performances. It's a win for everybody really.

 

[executionermma]

There's a difference between liking food and eating so much that you have to make unhealthy drastic weight cuts which shorten your career if anything. They are not good for your body and your body can not continue to go back and forth so many times and still be healthy. I don't advocate for eliminating weight classes but I do advocate for limiting weight cuts. Not only would fewer fights be canceled, but fighters would be healthier and we'd see better performances. It's a win for everybody really.

Ok, but how do you limit weight cutting? Saying that a athlete without fights booked can't eat all he wants and get some fat isn't a reasonable idea, if someone isn't in camp, they should be able/free to do whatever they want with their weight.

 

[PerpetualWB]

Ok, but how do you limit weight cutting? Saying that a athlete without fights booked can't eat all he wants and get some fat isn't a reasonable idea, if someone isn't in camp, they should be able/free to do whatever they want with their weight.

There are plenty of ways. Not saying any single way is a solution, or a good solution. Hydration testing, random weight testing, being required to weigh within a certain limit upon signing a bout agreement, weight testing at certain phases of fight camps, ie being within a certain weight one week out, two weeks out, four weeks out, etc.

And it's perfectly reasonable to tell a fighter who fights at 145 that he can't get up to 190, 180, or even 170 pounds outside of camp. If you want to eat more, then go up in weight class. We aren't preventing anyone from fighting. Again, we are talking about LIMITING weight cutting. There's no way to do that without enforcing some rules about weight.

 

[executionermma]

There are plenty of ways. Not saying any single way is a solution, or a good solution. Hydration testing, random weight testing, being required to weigh within a certain limit upon signing a bout agreement, weight testing at certain phases of fight camps, ie being within a certain weight one week out, two weeks out, four weeks out, etc.

And it's perfectly reasonable to tell a fighter who fights at 145 that he can't get up to 190, 180, or even 170 pounds outside of camp. If you want to eat more, then go up in weight class. We aren't preventing anyone from fighting. Again, we are talking about LIMITING weight cutting. There's no way to do that without enforcing some rules about weight.

Hydration testing is a good idea and i'd agree. Same for multiple weigh ins, going to fight week/month.
Random weight testing is ridiculous. Again, WHY you can't get some fat and enjoy life if you have no fight booked and you ain't fighting for the next 3 or 4 months? That makes NO SENSE.

Totally disagree about the second part of your post. This isn't reasonable. They're athletes, not slaves.
Woodley for example has no fight booked, if he wants to be 220 lbs, he should be able to. When he gets a fight, then he should walk around lighter, not right now.