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None of these are true. All of these numbers were thoroughly debunked with mounds of evidence by a brilliant Reddit poster, that did the research
Was Wilt Chamberlain the GOAT of basketball?
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None of these are true. All of these numbers were thoroughly debunked with mounds of evidence by a brilliant Reddit poster, that did the research
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LOL, what? Dwight is 3" shorter than Wilt. Wilt is 7'1. Dwight is 6'10" (remember NBA heights are listed with shoes on).
The point of the video was that Dwight was faster than an out-of-shape Maurice Greene. That's astonishing. Dwight is about as heavy as Wilt was when he ran his track times.
*Edit* Correction. Dwight was heavier than Wilt. In 2010 when he ran that race he was listed on the Orlando roster as weighing 265lbs.
You must also keep in mind that the reason the Fosbury Flop was so revolutionary was because it enabled shorter jumpers to lower the lowest point of the body they had to elevate above the bar. Being taller was a far greater advantage prior to the flop. Also, once again, you're wrong. The WR before the introduction of the FF was 2.28m = 7 feet 5 3/4 inches. He was 11" off that mark.
No, there isn't. Find me a single one of these witness accounts. Get me the quote. Tell me where it was said. Magazine, book, documentary film, etc. Keep in mind that will be one account. We can count them up.
The triceps extension means practically nothing, and there are no compelling accounts to substantiate a 500 lbs bench press.
I haven't stated he was playing with bums, but he definitely wasn't playing against a field with anywhere near the average physical attributes or athletic capabilities that NBA players inhabit today.
Cool, but this has nothing to do with these bullshit fish stories about his athletic prowess.
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I should have clarified, the high jump stat I mention was from 1960, trying to compare apples to apples, flop vs no flop. I don’t believe height had much advantage, overall jumping ability and dexterity. High Jumps can be vastly improved if you that’s all you do, record holders are known to increase up to a foot with training. The guy was a bb player that just tried those things out, amazing raw talent. I’ve seen two different videos of him jumping, one that I posted on this thread claimed 6’6” and hardly the best form.
In the end, the reddit article was essentially a he said she said piece.
And btw, wilt was 7’1 barefoot
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Watch from :40-1:20. You'll see some numbers on Wilt & also hear him mention his playing weight.
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Dwight measured 6'9 barefoot predraft as you probably know. Its possible that he grew, but same is true for Wilt who was a full 7' 1/2 or 7'1 barefoot.
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Oh snap, listen to Wilt at 1:53 make the bench press claim himself! Also from 1:35 to 2:00 he speaks about matching up with Shaq.
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Shot put witness
11 minute mark
and the Reddit thread is riddled with dead links.
so there’s high jump video, shot put witness, if only those two true would make his other claims not so far fetched.
11 minute mark
and the Reddit thread is riddled with dead links.
so there’s high jump video, shot put witness, if only those two true would make his other claims not so far fetched.
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I literally just explained that NBA heights are listed with the shoes on. You can observe that from listed roster heights, and NBA Combine heights listed with and without shoes.
Nevertheless, I took the time to double check measurement of Wilt's height, and see that he was measured at 7'1" in bare feet. So I'll concede he was ~4" taller than Dwight. Nonetheless, these track times were performed before he was a rookie, and 250 pounds or less. So he weighed less than Dwight in the Shaq vs. video when he beat Maurice Greene.
Also, Dwight has a recorded dunk with two hands on a rim at a 12'0" height. Wilt never performed any such feat.
Wilt also claimed that he could grab quarters off the backboard. That was a lie. He also allegedly claimed in an interview that he had a "46"-48" vertical leap, easy":
https://verticaljumpworld.com/wilt-chamberlain-vertical-jump/
Photographic analysis here suggests a vertical leap of 35". In other words, Wilt had a track record for dishonesty.
Dwight did the same. When challenged he couldn't do it. He didn't even come close.
You didn't want to compare apples to apples. You mentioned 7'1" as a high jump mark as if it was limited to technique, but obviously men could jump much higher with that technique. Furthermore, you guys aren't just comparing him to athletes of his time, but you are asserting that he is more athletic than the bigs today, on a planet with over twice as many people, thus twice as much talent, and what they are able to do. So, no, you aren't comparing apples to apples. Your established scale is absolute.
Uhhh....what's the point, here, bud? We already established above that 56' was his PR in the shot put (this guy says "over 50 ft"). Again, the world record shot put by a decathlete competing in a full decathlon is 63'. The current world record holder overall in the decathlon, Kevin Mayer, put the shot 53.5' ft in his world record performance-- not necessarily his PR. He's 6'1" and weighs 170 lbs.
Next, the "witness" to the high jump mentions the Big 7 victory where he high jumped 6'5".
So what is this supposed to prove? I asked about the 500lbs bench press, not the events we established above that had recorded histories. It's the triple jump over 50', a high jump of 6'11", and a 500lb bench press you were supposed to find. Obviously you couldn't.
There is zero sourcing of Arnold's comment about Wilt benching 500 lbs. The narrator of the video is passing along the same rumor to which you succumbed. He even says, "If Arnold said that..."
Next, he relates the story of Wilt being able to pick up Arnold and "easily" lift him over his head with one hand when Arnold was 240 lbs! A one-arm DB press, but of a man, who is much less balanced than a barbell, and extraordinarily more difficult to lift. Allegedly he did this when he was over 50-years-old.
The most legendary strongman of that time, Paul Anderson, who actually humiliated the Russian Olympic weightlifters once, was allegedly able to do 2x300lbs with a one-arm dumbbell press, but to give you an idea of just how much more unstable barbells are, which are the length of a man like Arnold, though more stable, he was only able to do do 1 x 250 lbs push press using a barbell. Meanwhile, he weighed from 330-360lbs throughout his life at a height of 5'9". Furthermore, unlike the two modern Olympic lifts, when you push press or side press (this was the old push press which was the third Olympic lift later eliminated), you aren't given any opportunity to impart speed to the bar. For this reason, there is zero biomechanical advantage to being taller. It's a much greater advantage to being shorter.
https://plagueofstrength.com/tag/paul-anderson/
This is what Paul looked like:
We done here, boys? A bit of education in these matters would greatly improve your resilience against this stupefying level of gullibility.
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Arnold made the claim about Wilt picking him up with one arm "With ease".Wilt also claimed that he could grab quarters off the backboard. That was a lie. In other words, Wilt had a track record for dishonesty.
Dwight did the same. When challenged he couldn't do it. He didn't even come close.
You didn't want to compare apples to apples. You mentioned 7'1" as a high jump mark as if it was limited to technique, but obviously men could jump much higher with that technique. Furthermore, you guys aren't just comparing him to athletes of his time, but you are asserting that he is more athletic than the bigs today, on a planet with over twice as many people, thus twice as much talent, and what they are able to do. So, no, you aren't comparing apples to apples. Your established scale is absolute.
Uhhh....what's the point, here, bud? We already established above that 56' was his PR in the shot put (this guy says "over 50 ft"). Again, the world record shot put by a decathlete competing in a full decathlon is 63'. The current world record holder overall in the decathlon, Kevin Mayer, put the shot 53.5' ft in his world record performance-- not necessarily his PR. He's 6'1" and weighs 170 lbs.
Next, the "witness" to the high jump mentions the Big 7 victory where he high jumped 6'5".
So what is this supposed to prove? I asked about the 500lbs bench press, not the events we established above that had recorded histories. It's the triple jump over 50', a high jump of 6'11", and a 500lb bench press you were supposed to find. Obviously you couldn't.
There is zero sourcing of Arnold's comment about Wilt benching 500 lbs. The narrator of the video is passing along the same rumor to which you succumbed. He even says, "If Arnold said that..."
Next, he relates the story of Wilt being able to pick up Arnold and "easily" lift him over his head with one hand when Arnold was 240 lbs! A one-arm DB press, but of a man, who is much less balanced than a barbell, and extraordinarily more difficult to lift. Allegedly he did this when he was over 50-years-old.
The most legendary strongman of that time, Paul Anderson, who actually humiliated the Russian Olympic weightlifters once, was allegedly able to do 2x300lbs with a one-arm dumbbell press, but to give you an idea of just how much more unstable barbells are, which are the length of a man like Arnold, though more stable, he was only able to do do 1 x 250 lbs push press using a barbell. Meanwhile, he weighed from 330-360lbs throughout his life at a height of 5'9". Furthermore, unlike the two modern Olympic lifts, when you push press or side press (this was the old push press which was the third Olympic lift later eliminated), you aren't given any opportunity to impart speed to the bar. For this reason, there is zero biomechanical advantage to being taller. It's a much greater advantage to being shorter.
https://plagueofstrength.com/tag/paul-anderson/
This is what Paul looked like:
We done here, boys? A bit of education in these matters would greatly improve your resilience against this stupefying level of gullibility.
that was with regard to his movie, Conan, Arnold had lost weight for the role. Arnold made that claim, and it's on the videos a few pages back. Wilt was well known to pick up and ragdoll men, there are men in the video that claimed to be picked up by wilt.
Billy Mills was the one that witnessed Wilt do shot put, also witnessed him do a 880 yard in under two minutes. quick google search shows the world record for 880 to be 1:44, and that would explain his stamina playing so many minutes in a game without break.
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What I've gathered is that there has been so much misinformation spread in regards to Wilt that you've chosen to dismiss most of the stories about him as lies. That's understandable. I acknowledge that there is a ton of BS out there, but I also recognize that its out there because Wilt was truly exceptional.I literally just explained that NBA heights are listed with the shoes on. You can observe that from listed roster heights, and NBA Combine heights listed with and without shoes.
Nevertheless, I took the time to double check measurement of Wilt's height, and see that he was measured at 7'1" in bare feet. So I'll concede he was ~4" taller than Dwight. Nonetheless, these track times were performed before he was a rookie, and 250 pounds or less. So he weighed less than Dwight in the Shaq vs. video when he beat Maurice Greene.
Also, Dwight has a recorded dunk with two hands on a rim at a 12'0" height. Wilt never performed any such feat.
Wilt also claimed that he could grab quarters off the backboard. That was a lie. He also allegedly claimed in an interview that he had a "46"-48" vertical leap, easy":
https://verticaljumpworld.com/wilt-chamberlain-vertical-jump/
Photographic analysis here suggests a vertical leap of 35". In other words, Wilt had a track record for dishonesty.
Dwight did the same. When challenged he couldn't do it. He didn't even come close.
You didn't want to compare apples to apples. You mentioned 7'1" as a high jump mark as if it was limited to technique, but obviously men could jump much higher with that technique. Furthermore, you guys aren't just comparing him to athletes of his time, but you are asserting that he is more athletic than the bigs today, on a planet with over twice as many people, thus twice as much talent, and what they are able to do. So, no, you aren't comparing apples to apples. Your established scale is absolute.
Uhhh....what's the point, here, bud? We already established above that 56' was his PR in the shot put (this guy says "over 50 ft"). Again, the world record shot put by a decathlete competing in a full decathlon is 63'. The current world record holder overall in the decathlon, Kevin Mayer, put the shot 53.5' ft in his world record performance-- not necessarily his PR. He's 6'1" and weighs 170 lbs.
Next, the "witness" to the high jump mentions the Big 7 victory where he high jumped 6'5".
So what is this supposed to prove? I asked about the 500lbs bench press, not the events we established above that had recorded histories. It's the triple jump over 50', a high jump of 6'11", and a 500lb bench press you were supposed to find. Obviously you couldn't.
There is zero sourcing of Arnold's comment about Wilt benching 500 lbs. The narrator of the video is passing along the same rumor to which you succumbed. He even says, "If Arnold said that..."
Next, he relates the story of Wilt being able to pick up Arnold and "easily" lift him over his head with one hand when Arnold was 240 lbs! A one-arm DB press, but of a man, who is much less balanced than a barbell, and extraordinarily more difficult to lift. Allegedly he did this when he was over 50-years-old.
The most legendary strongman of that time, Paul Anderson, who actually humiliated the Russian Olympic weightlifters once, was allegedly able to do 2x300lbs with a one-arm dumbbell press, but to give you an idea of just how much more unstable barbells are, which are the length of a man like Arnold, though more stable, he was only able to do do 1 x 250 lbs push press using a barbell. Meanwhile, he weighed from 330-360lbs throughout his life at a height of 5'9". Furthermore, unlike the two modern Olympic lifts, when you push press or side press (this was the old push press which was the third Olympic lift later eliminated), you aren't given any opportunity to impart speed to the bar. For this reason, there is zero biomechanical advantage to being taller. It's a much greater advantage to being shorter.
https://plagueofstrength.com/tag/paul-anderson/
This is what Paul looked like:
We done here, boys? A bit of education in these matters would greatly improve your resilience against this stupefying level of gullibility.
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These are concessions. I think you two are finally coming to grips with the fact you've been bamboozled, and can't substantiate any of these tall, tall tales. You allowed fantasy to guide your reasoning.
Wilt tells Conan, "I benched around 600 lbs", and you two believe it. Do either of you know anything about weightlifting? In 1967, the world record bench press was set at 616 pounds when Pat Casey became the first man in history to bench press over 600. He weighed 340 lbs at a height of 5'9". As with other non-speed lifts, a shorter height (with wider shoulders) is the singular greatest advantage in this lift. The ratio of the length of the arms to the distance between them provides that leverage.
This is what a 1960's physique capable of benching that weight looks like:
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Oh, and for the posterity, Wilt's listed roster weight was 275 throughout his career. However, there is a much more detailed reference via the WCA. He did weigh north of 300 lbs...for about 7 months of his entire prime during and shortly after the Warriors training camp when he was his most healthy before his knee surgery (prior to his final three seasons with the Lakers). Otherwise, he spent his entire youth and healthy prime playing between 258 and 292 lbs.
http://ballislife.com/young-wilt-chamberlain-would-destroy-todays-nba/
Meanwhile, Shaq's was listed at 325 when he was at his largest in 2003-04, but I was able to find a reliable account from FOX sports journalist Charlie Rosen who penned an article in 2011 mentioning that during this peak he could only be reliably weighed on cattle scales, and he weighed in at 375 at his heaviest:
https://www.foxsports.com/nba/story...ld-have-been-greater-if-he-stayed-slim-060111
Shaq recorded his 38.0" vertical leap (spike reach of 12'5") in the pre-draft. It's unclear if he weighed the 294 listed for his LSU final season, or the 325 listed as his roster weight by the Orlando Magic when he did this. The above Reddit isn't annotated with sources, but it claims he weighed 301 during his rookie season. I personally owned a rookie Bowen card of Shaq, and his weight on that card was listed as 303.
In any case perhaps you might appreciate Shaq's ungodly athleticism a bit more. It isn't caked in the shroud of history, like so many stories about religious figures, and so it isn't as sexily mysterious, but that shouldn't diminish one's regard.
http://ballislife.com/young-wilt-chamberlain-would-destroy-todays-nba/
Meanwhile, Shaq's was listed at 325 when he was at his largest in 2003-04, but I was able to find a reliable account from FOX sports journalist Charlie Rosen who penned an article in 2011 mentioning that during this peak he could only be reliably weighed on cattle scales, and he weighed in at 375 at his heaviest:
https://www.foxsports.com/nba/story...ld-have-been-greater-if-he-stayed-slim-060111
This Reddit offers a timeline of his weight:
Shaq recorded his 38.0" vertical leap (spike reach of 12'5") in the pre-draft. It's unclear if he weighed the 294 listed for his LSU final season, or the 325 listed as his roster weight by the Orlando Magic when he did this. The above Reddit isn't annotated with sources, but it claims he weighed 301 during his rookie season. I personally owned a rookie Bowen card of Shaq, and his weight on that card was listed as 303.
In any case perhaps you might appreciate Shaq's ungodly athleticism a bit more. It isn't caked in the shroud of history, like so many stories about religious figures, and so it isn't as sexily mysterious, but that shouldn't diminish one's regard.
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These are concessions. I think you two are finally coming to grips with the fact you've been bamboozled, and can't substantiate any of these tall, tall tales. You allowed fantasy to guide your reasoning.
Wilt tells Conan, "I benched around 600 lbs", and you two believe it. Do either of you know anything about weightlifting? In 1967, the world record bench press was set at 616 pounds when Pat Casey became the first man in history to bench press over 600. He weighed 340 lbs at a height of 5'9". As with other non-speed lifts, a shorter height (with wider shoulders) is the singular greatest advantage in this lift. The ratio of the length of the arms to the distance between them provides that leverage.
This is what a 1960's physique capable of benching that weight looks like:
it's his word against yours. Just like you thought Wilt not being able to pickup Arnold with one arm.
I benched 275 in college weighing 170, I did play sports, but too short to be any good at anything. Wilt's numbers are too astronomical for me to take in, but so are his NBA records, they're almost comical. His point scoring average as a ROOKIE, far surpasses everyone, then and now.
wilt picking up a dude
KC Jones has said about wilt picking him up (BB player in that era), briefly mentioned in an interview floating on YT somewhere. Paul silas another ball player picked up by wilt.
again, I'm not presenting EVERYTHING as absolute fact, however I am saying that Wilt was far superior athletically to anything in the NBA, then and now. Even with appeals like it's a much bigger population, that's simply an appeal, not evidence. For reference, Billy Mills, who witnessed said feats of athleticism, is an olympian, and not unusual for top guys to meet each other. 880YD under two minutes, makes 440 @ 49 totally plausible.
article with the 40 yard dash from reddit, when he was being scouted for football https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-tDn7lBlbaC8/T1BIb5WnVRI/AAAAAAAADIM/n46efDf56To/s800/Wilt%20Chamberlain%20football.jpg
he ran a 4.6 barefooted, so a 4.4 with shoes is definitely plausible. Hank Stram is the one that made the claim in the article, a KC Chiefs Coach.
his speed is hard to believe for a big man, but watch him jet down court (not the only one either):
I dont think I've ever seen such a fast 7' player ever. The guy ran so fast that he overshot his position.
sure, the guy exaggerated some things like sex with 20000 women, even he admitted that. He himself claimed 50" vertical, not really sure about that.
High jump, shot put, running, picking up Arnold with one arm, at some point, you'll be making the concession that these "tall" tales arent very tall after all. Maybe a stat or two is off, hardly invalidating the rest.
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Not a concession. I just understand that you won't be swayed without proof that doesn't exist. & even then I believe you would discredited the source. I never said I bought the 600lb bench, but I think hearing it from his mouth was worth sharing.
Track & weightlifting claims aside, his accomplishments on the court speak for themselves. The NBA, particularly the center position, wasn't as weak as many here would have us believe. The tall tales grew from his unprecedented dominance of other supreme athletes. & I feel that there are too many anecdotes for you to dismiss them all as fabricated, but that's your prerogative. What would he have to do to prove that he deserves a place in the GOAT conversation? Average 40 & 20 for his career with 12 rings? Or is it your opinion that a player from his era has no place in this debate no matter what?
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But but but muh tricep extension!! Lol...
Anything said from Arnold, a known fabricator (and legend), shouldn't be worth much.
Wilt was a beast for his time and i i believe he could play well in today's league. He would need to be brought up to speed though.
You all are really forgetting how evolved the game is today. Wilt would be so far behind in foot movements, hesitations, ball handling, post game/moves and add to the fact that he wouldn't have 6'8 hard working sheet metal producers guarding him, he'd have 6'10+ A level athletes on him.
I can see why he could still possibly reside in the top 10 due to how far ahead he was for his time period but realistically top 20 is more accurate and still generous.
Anything said from Arnold, a known fabricator (and legend), shouldn't be worth much.
Wilt was a beast for his time and i i believe he could play well in today's league. He would need to be brought up to speed though.
You all are really forgetting how evolved the game is today. Wilt would be so far behind in foot movements, hesitations, ball handling, post game/moves and add to the fact that he wouldn't have 6'8 hard working sheet metal producers guarding him, he'd have 6'10+ A level athletes on him.
I can see why he could still possibly reside in the top 10 due to how far ahead he was for his time period but realistically top 20 is more accurate and still generous.
