Was Nate Marquardt an elite WW-MW?

[AmbassadorFright]

I'd say yes for a time at least. He had all the physical attributes and skills to be elite and was a VERY dangerous finisher. His lack of a disciplined mentality (not showing up mentally on fight night) and later USADA were the biggest flaws in his downfall.

 

[dcthegod]

nate the great was absolutely one of the best of all time. he was cut from that cloth too. he was a fighters fighter. i think he got a lot more in tune with his faith later into his career and lost some of his edge, but when he was prime and on, he was a tough out for anyone 170-185. his highlights are insane.

 

[Megatronlee]

Debut in 1999, retired in 2017
Debut at LW; Strikeforce WW and Pancrase MW champion
1 UFC tittle shot, 4 titte eliminators
Top ranked 2004-2012

Finished Wodley, Maia, Kampann, Palhares, Horn, Gouveia. Tekken dinishes many of them
Handled prime Misaki better than Dan Henderson did.

Epic KO HL





Does he stand among the best 170-185lbers from USA of all time?

Oh yeah. Very modern skill set. He’d do well today.

 

[NoSmilez]

He is better than Yushin Okami.

 

[pankrat]

He is better than Yushin Okami.

No he is not.
But both better than posterboy Franklin

 

[omawho402]

When he was firing on all cylinders he was one of the best in the world.

 

[mkt]

Yeah so MW was pretty solid at that time. I remember something wasn’t right. I just don’t remember how the hell Bisping got a ts and how the hell did he end up defending his title against Henderson.

Yeah, other than avenging a loss (which made no sense because Bisping had plenty of losses), the Hendo fight was insane. Hendo was 3-6 in his previous 9 fights and 46 years old.

 

[mkt]

No he is not.
But both better than posterboy Franklin

Not sure about that, but Franklin was better than Bisping, who became a poster child later. He had a very close fight with the same Hendo who flatlined Bisping in seconds. Hendo had to LnP wrestle to eeke out a close decision over Rich, who was outstriking him. And Franklin beat the same Wand twice who beat Bisping.

Bisping has become this revisionist history "Most Underrated Fighter Ever!" which is totally undeserved.

 

[mkt]

He is better than Yushin Okami.

Yeah, it comes down to style matchups and stuff. Okami beat Nate who was stalling at MW at the time. But Okami would never KO Woodley at WW. Most likely that would be a close fight with Woodley barely outgrappling Okami. At that time (in Strikeforce), Woodley didn't strike much and hadn't fallen in love with his heavy hands. He was almost a pure wrestler. For some reason he decided to trade blows with Nate which was a really bad idea. Okami usually lost close fights with D1 wrestlers like Chael, Fitch and Shields.

I'd say Nate has a better overall resume considering all he did prior to the UFC in Pancrase and winning the Strikefoce belt. But Okami has a pretty nice resume as well: wins over Belcher, Lister, Nate, Munoz and Hector Lombard.

 

[pankrat]

Not sure about that, but Franklin was better than Bisping, who became a poster child later. He had a very close fight with the same Hendo who flatlined Bisping in seconds. Hendo had to LnP wrestle to eeke out a close decision over Rich, who was outstriking him. And Franklin beat the same Wand twice who beat Bisping.

Bisping has become this revisionist history "Most Underrated Fighter Ever!" which is totally undeserved.

It was trollling from both sides.
On topic, Im not sure about it neither. Franklin is bigger than both and can definitely win but I think he would've had a hard time beating 2008-2012 Okami/Marquardt.
His fight with Okami in 2007 was extremely close. Yushin was only 25 in his debut year in UFC and only got bettter from there, apart from adding like 15lbs of bulk to his frame.
vs Marquardt, if Rich can avoid getting caught I do think he could outpoint Nate from the outside, and the chance of getting outgrappled is lower than vs Okami.

Yeah, it comes down to style matchups and stuff. Okami beat Nate who was stalling at MW at the time. But Okami would never KO Woodley at WW. Most likely that would be a close fight with Woodley barely outgrappling Okami. At that time (in Strikeforce), Woodley didn't strike much and hadn't fallen in love with his heavy hands. He was almost a pure wrestler. For some reason he decided to trade blows with Nate which was a really bad idea. Okami usually lost close fights with D1 wrestlers like Chael, Fitch and Shields.

I'd say Nate has a better overall resume considering all he did prior to the UFC in Pancrase and winning the Strikefoce belt. But Okami has a pretty nice resume as well: wins over Belcher, Lister, Nate, Munoz and Hector Lombard.

Okami and Marquardt had several common opponents: Takeuchi (former Pancrase champion), Ishikawa (Pancrase contender), Dean Lister, Hector Lombard, Chael Sonnen, and Anderson Silva.

Looking at those matchups, Okami did better overall. He also edged their head-to-head fight in a title eliminator.

I agree that Okami wouldn’t have knocked out Woodley (or others) the way Marquardt did, but I do think that version of TWood could have been outpointed by Yushin. The chance of the KO is always there with that right hand but I definitely don’t think TWood could have outwrestled Okami for 3 or 5 rounds.
By the way, Shields was gifted the decision against Okami. There’s no way he was the better man that night.

To sum up, Okami and Marquardt were extremely evenly matched—two of the most well-rounded WW-MWs of their generation.

 

[PaulieVegas27]

No. But thanks for asking.

 

[pankrat]

Yeah, it comes down to style matchups and stuff. Okami beat Nate who was stalling at MW at the time. But Okami would never KO Woodley at WW. Most likely that would be a close fight with Woodley barely outgrappling Okami. At that time (in Strikeforce), Woodley didn't strike much and hadn't fallen in love with his heavy hands. He was almost a pure wrestler. For some reason he decided to trade blows with Nate which was a really bad idea. Okami usually lost close fights with D1 wrestlers like Chael, Fitch and Shields.

I'd say Nate has a better overall resume considering all he did prior to the UFC in Pancrase and winning the Strikefoce belt. But Okami has a pretty nice resume as well: wins over Belcher, Lister, Nate, Munoz and Hector Lombard.

BTW

https://www.criticalbench.com/Dean_Lister.htm

CRITICAL BENCH: Who has been your toughest opponent thus far?
Dean Lister: I have to say it was Okami

It's pretty telling coming from a guy who fought Ricardo Arona, Marquardt, Leites, Suloev or Jeremy Horn.

 

[Sms_productions713]

He was the #2 MW in the world when Chael beat him.

His run after the Anderson loss to the chael fight was definitely marquardt at his peak. He was number 2 and I wanted that damn Anderson rematch. He showed all his skills in that run

 

[ssBaldy]

He will always have a place in the hearts of the fans for what he did to Woodley

 

[ChickenBrother]

BTW

https://www.criticalbench.com/Dean_Lister.htm

CRITICAL BENCH: Who has been your toughest opponent thus far?
Dean Lister: I have to say it was Okami

It's pretty telling coming from a guy who fought Ricardo Arona, Marquardt, Leites, Suloev or Jeremy Horn.

IIRC Chael was also highly complimentary of Okami after they fought and they became BFFs and training partners. That whole thing played out like a buddy cop movie where one cop doesn't speak english lol.

As you say, Okami and Marquardt were nothing if not evenly matched when you consider their careers up to that point. But in their fight and vs. others at their level, it definitely came down to styles make fights.

 

[IDGETKTFO]

He was elite enough to sleep Tyrone.

 

[dildos]

Nate was never elite.

 

[BjPenn2017]

Nate was fucking good in his prime, most likely would’ve been champ at MW had he not run into one of the ATGs in Anderson Silva.

Also his one punch KO of Maia is one of the sickest one punch KO’s of all time

 

[BowserJr]

Debut in 1999, retired in 2017
Debut at LW; Strikeforce WW and Pancrase MW champion
1 UFC tittle shot, 4 titte eliminators
Top ranked 2004-2012

Finished Wodley, Maia, Kampann, Palhares, Horn, Gouveia. Tekken dinishes many of them
Handled prime Misaki better than Dan Henderson did.

Epic KO HL





Does he stand among the best 170-185lbers from USA of all time?

Best Canadian MW of all time

 

[BowserJr]

Don’t forget his GOAT combo finish of LHW Wilson Gouveia and his stiffening of prime Maia and prime Palhares

Prime Marquardt was a beast

I still think about that combo and wonder why we never saw anything similar ever again