Was Frank Mir right about flyweights?

[aus101]

Where do you guys live that a guy is 6' and weighs 220 lbs?
I have a friend who's a strong guy. At 6' when he's in shape he's around 185-195. I've seen him at 205 he was starting to get fat.

Faber would dance away land heavy leg kicks until the big guy went to pick one up. Then he'd get kicked in the head.

Your observations are correct.

They (and anyone who mentions "200+ pounders) are talking about fatties. No natural bodybuilders (who are leaner than UFC fighters but not by a crazy amount) under 6 foot tall are 200+ pounds in comp shape).

Guys of average height who are extremely gifted can make a ripped 190, that's your GSP's and Woodleys though.

What people have to realise is if you are 170 lean but are carrying 30 pounds of fat around you'll be "200 pounds", but much weaker than someone who is only 180 but lean.


People always mention these "200 pound and athletic" guys who could come in and beat up flyweights. The vast and overwhelming majority of the population will not consist of these freak outliers. The tiny amount of males who do possess those stats will still need grappling and/or striking skills in order to beat the Flyweights. Just having a strength and weight advantage isn't really all that critical in striking. Could these 200 pounders (say a top rugby union player for example) out grapple say McCall? It would all depend on their natural, innate grappling ability. Some would win, some wouldn't.

Such a statistically small percentile of the population would last a minute with them though I feel it's a bit of a redundant discussion.

 

[Brandon Wilson]

pretty sure if you were trained in like krav maga or something and trained for eye gouges, fish hooks, nut shots, etc you could take out a silverback

You can't be serious? Even with a sword, you'd get fucking killed by a gorilla.

 

[Mitch Thompson]

No, any UFC level flyweight would mop the floor with any average Joe

 

[Gigaton Punch]

Yeah, no wonder De La Hoya, Mayweather and Nonito Donaire were obscure niche athletes while the Klitschko bros were making bank

The Klitschko brothers make a ton of money. They're not popular here but they make a lot of money fighting in Europe. Way more than Nonito ever will. Bad example.

 

[DrHouse]

Is he right about that being why people don't like the lighter weight classes? I don't think so anymore. I think the average MMA fan is going through a very prominent evolution, from neanderthal to modern day man. The average MMA fan isn't so much the stereotypical meathead anymore, at least I don't think. I think more and more fans are realizing that these are legitimate athletes who dedicate their lives to a craft, regardless of how small, and that they would kick any size regular guys ass. Just looking at movies, MMA fighters aren't so much shows as being low life savages and are being shown more as legitimate athletes.

I think a lot of it comes down to whether you're watching to see the best fighters in the world, or if you're watching to see the most skilled. The further you go down in weight classes, sure they're just as skilled if not more, but that skill wouldn't amount to anything with a 50 pound lean mass disadvantage.

 

[Breakitdown]

First time I've agreed with Mur.

These lower weight classes are the reason why the sport is failing and the cards are WATERED DOWN these days. MMA will always be thought of as a pseudo sport as long as these manlets are allowed to fight in UFC.

Don't compare it to the "sweet science" because we're talking a WHOLE DIFFERENT LEVEL of aesthetics. Lighter weight guys like PAC are lightning quick with their combinations and still have that laser accuracy. TRULY something to behold.

The problem with the lighter weight MMA guys is that, while they're noticeably quicker than the heavy guys, they still LACK any technique. All of them still swing wildly with their eyes closed.

This is tolerable in the higher classes because a fight can end in a second. The problem with the lower guys is that they have 0 power and are simply swinging wildly like rock em sock em robots for the duration of the match with 0 finishing ability. Nobody wants to watch that.

 

[JammG]

I've always felt like there was a mislabelling of weightclasses in mma. When casuals hear about a lightweight fight on fox they immediately think that it's the small guys fighting, when realistically, it tends to be guys of average height with bigger than average frames. Yet middleweights are absolute monsters, generally over 6 feet tall and cutting from 200+ lbs.

It might seem like an insignificant distinction, but I've often heard friends and co-workers, who don't follow the sport closely enough to really know the weight classes, say that they won't watch anything below welter weight. When I explain to them how big lightweights really are, they're surprised, but it doesn't usually change their perceptions at that point. I can't help but think, if the weightclasses were labelled a bit closer to those of boxing, people might give it them more of a chance.

 

[rpn453]

Ummm. No.
You wouldn't get past a chimp with krav maga, let alone a gorilla. You think a gorilla's gonna stop fighting coz you gouge out its eye? This isn't a person you're fighting here - a gorilla's gonna rip off half of your face and crush your skull with its bare hands. If you were fighting a gorilla in close enough range to eye gouge or fishhook it, you'd be dead before you could consider doing of those things....I can't believe I'm explaining this, actually.

I disagree. I've done a lot of training specific to fighting gorillas so I'm pretty sure I could take one out. It's hard to get to their balls since they won't be standing upright when rushing you, so don't even bother. The key is that the gorilla leaves its mouth exposed when it's biting your face, so just fish hook it while it's doing that and it will tap.

As you can see, that's a big target so it's easy to land a clean fish hook. If his teeth get stuck in your skull then he'll have trouble escaping and you can really torque it.

 

[SuperNerd]

I believe a lot of MMA fans are fans of the spectacle. So maybe some people think that way.

I dont believe most fans of the sport of MMA, feel anywhere close to this.

Its the best fighter at 125 pounds. We get that. I'm not watching this because they're the few people in the world who can beat me up, I'm watching it because it's fucking awesome.

 

[Bones245n4847]

Me and Francisco think alike, no lie if two flyweights had long enough hair, I could pick them both up by the back of their hair and smash them together like a cymbal and get credited a double KO...

 

[ineverpost]

People might think that, but I bet someone like Urijah Faber or Mighty Mouse could wreck most 200 pound guys who don't train MMA seriously.

I train UFC brah. Come at me.

 

[Lucifer Alpha]

First time I've agreed with Mur.

These lower weight classes are the reason why the sport is failing and the cards are WATERED DOWN these days. MMA will always be thought of as a pseudo sport as long as these manlets are allowed to fight in UFC.

Don't compare it to the "sweet science" because we're talking a WHOLE DIFFERENT LEVEL of aesthetics. Lighter weight guys like PAC are lightning quick with their combinations and still have that laser accuracy. TRULY something to behold.

The problem with the lighter weight MMA guys is that, while they're noticeably quicker than the heavy guys, they still LACK any technique. All of them still swing wildly with their eyes closed.

This is tolerable in the higher classes because a fight can end in a second. The problem with the lower guys is that they have 0 power and are simply swinging wildly like rock em sock em robots for the duration of the match with 0 finishing ability. Nobody wants to watch that.

 

[clayj]

People might think that, but I bet someone like Urijah Faber or Mighty Mouse could wreck most 200 pound guys who don't train MMA seriously.

to put it into perspective, BJ Penn, whose ideal fight weight is Featherweight, went the distance with Machida, who was LHW champion. Just let that sink in ... how many 200 pound guys who don't train could go the distance with Machida? Now think about what an elite featherweight would do to a 200 or 220 pound guy who doesn't train. Mighty Mouse would wreck just about any 200 or 220 pound guy without MMA training.

 

[UD]

to put it into perspective, BJ Penn, whose ideal fight weight is Featherweight, went the distance with Machida, who was LHW champion. Just let that sink in ... how many 200 pound guys who don't train could go the distance with Machida? Now think about what an elite featherweight would do to a 200 or 220 pound guy who doesn't train. Mighty Mouse would wreck just about any 200 or 220 pound guy without MMA training.

There is a difference between featherweight and flyweight.

I have never really trained any mma and truly feel I could hold my own against any flyweight. I'm 6'2 240lbs. Healthy/fit. I'll try and cut the 20lbs if the weigh in is a day before the fight lol.

 

[Alexandergreat3]

look at the roger huerta street fight

Huerta walks around at 180. He's no midget.

 

[Chuckwitdatlook]

I know this kind of makes me a "just bleed" fan but I tend to agree with Frank Mir's sentiment...

 

[Wayweary]

You are delusional. I could be 1000% more skilled than a sliver back gorilla but guess what, he's natural physical superiority will whip me every time.

The difference between a silverback and a human is orders of magnitude greater than the the difference between two healthy human males of disparate size.

 

[Wayweary]

I was thinking about something that Frank Mir said a while back, I dont have the exact quote, but basically, he said that nobody cares about flyweight fighters and their superior skill set because the average 220 pound bloke looks at them at thinks 'yeah so what, i could still beat them in a fight'.

It's obvious that the little guys dnt get as much hype or fan support as bigger fighters like Jon Jones, GSP etc - do you think there is any truth to Mir's statement? Even if it is unfair, and somewhat stupid.. is he right?

He's right that there are plenty of idiots that think like this.

 

[jmadtx]

Huerta walks around at 180. He's no midget.

the flyweights aren't midgets either.