Was comeback Foreman a scam?

[TheGreatA]

Holyfield
Briggs
Morrison
Moorer
Cooper

Those guys could hit hard. And during his comeback, he was never knocked down

Alex Stewart was a hard hitter also, 40 KO's in 43 wins (at the time of this fight 28 KO's in 28 wins), and he was just freely throwing haymakers on Foreman's chin after Foreman got effectively blinded due to swelling. A lot of people called for Foreman's retirement after that.



Moorer was buckled by every half-ass punch thrown by Stewart yet his best punches barely registered on Foreman (as far as him showing any signs of being stunned, obviously his face was a mess).

 

[mozfonky]

Him playing possum and acting like he was going down, only to explode with punches at Big George, was a classic moment. Dude was just carrying way too much weight for his frame, he was about 5'6-5'7, but he did better than Frazier.

Foreman was also like 230 pounds for that fight, which he said was just too low for him at that age. Made him feel weak, and unable to push people around.

he was 235, which is interesting. Someone here said in his prime he should have come in heavier, presumably just used to the heavy guys we have today. I have always said the heavyweights, even the big, huge, muscular guys like Foreman or Big Cat Williams or Liston tried to come down in training. Today we're seeing cruiserweights like usyk fighting at 226 or whatever it was last time and in my opinion, the excess weight USED to be the first sign of a poor performance coming in the heavyweights, not the case today. We should be reading something into that and it wouldn't be good pertaining to the guys today, Fury included. Anyway, Foreman still had a paunch, still looked too fat at 235, only 11 pounds heavier than his Zaire weight.

As far as Joe Frazier, Ali took so much out of the poor guy in their classic fights, all george had to do was finish him off. The first Ali fight really was the end of prime Joe. His managers admitted as much, Yank Durham had him fighting patsies, saying that they had to start him out all over again. When the sanctioning body(s) forced him to fight either Ali in a rematch or Foreman, he took foreman only because he hated Ali so much and didn't want to give him a chance. As far as the second Foreman-Frazier fight, that was again, another interesting thing with the weight, Frazier came in matching foreman's 224, i was shocked when I heard that. Maybe it was intentional but that's about ten pounds heavier than his previous fight in Manila with ali and he was too heavy there. Maybe he thought he'd somehow be stronger with all that extra lard. Joe was a very skilled defensive fighter but George was just too big for him, that simple, too big, too powerful. Plus Joe was damaged goods after those wars with Ali. He would only fight twice more after Manila.

 

[mozfonky]

Alex Stewart was a hard hitter also, 40 KO's in 43 wins (at the time of this fight 28 KO's in 28 wins), and he was just freely throwing haymakers on Foreman's chin after Foreman got effectively blinded due to swelling. A lot of people called for Foreman's retirement after that.



Moorer was buckled by every half-ass punch thrown by Stewart yet his best punches barely registered on Foreman (as far as him showing any signs of being stunned, obviously his face was a mess).

Stewart is a great example of how a kayo ratio doesn't mean everything. I was talking about Wilder and everyone still thinks Wilder is just the deadliest puncher ever, I brought up guys like Stewart but not him to prove otherwise, a lot of it depends on who you're hitting. If you're hitting guys who either aren't top tier or who are in a weak division, of course you should be kayoing them. No one will ever convince me of Wilder's incredible punching power, not after all I've seen in the sport.

 

[Paolo Delutis]

So, just looking at a few records from that era and comeback Foreman literally lost to any half decent fighter he fought, apart from one shot against one of the chinniest title holders ever

people often talk about the comeback like it was some mythical event, and in reality he was fighting bums, he also lost to Schulz, he even admitted as much after that fight

he refused to fight Lewis, Tucker, Tyson and the rematch against Schulz

Scam in what sense I mean the guy took like 20 years off of boxing and then came back who was he supposed to fight at top ranked guy right away that wouldn't make any sense he built his way back up and earned his title...

He made the best choices for his career at the time which is not unheard of for boxers at all and on top of that he was a well-known name from his past and nobody then and in fact nobody since has even tried what he has ...

Especially at heavyweight boxing we're pretty much everyone has power and fighting a guy 20 years younger than you even if he's not that skilled it only takes one shot when you're 40 plus to get put to sleep

 

[joy2day]

For a comeback at that age, George was pretty amazing. George fought contenders and lesser fighters alike. That's a really dumb take to say "well he didn't fight this guy and he didn't fight that guy." Calling his comeback somehow a "scam" doesn't even make sense. It sounds like something that a person who knows nothing about boxing would say.

He wasn't going to be the best fighter of a generation past his own when he was that old, and that isn't something anyone expected or claimed. But he could beat all but a few of the very best, and that made a huge statement. George fought a great fight against Holyfield. Those saying later generations of boxers were better get laughed out of the room with the way George dealt with all but a few of the best when he was an old guy.

 

[treelo]

For a comeback at that age, George was pretty amazing. George fought contenders and lesser fighters alike. That's a really dumb take to say "well he didn't fight this guy and he didn't fight that guy." Calling his comeback somehow a "scam" doesn't even make sense. It sounds like something that a person who knows nothing about boxing would say.

He wasn't going to be the best fighter of a generation past his own when he was that old, and that isn't something anyone expected or claimed. But he could beat all but a few of the very best, and that made a huge statement. George fought a great fight against Holyfield. Those saying later generations of boxers were better get laughed out of the room with the way George dealt with all but a few of the best when he was an old guy.

well he lot to Schulz, Briggs and Morrison, hardly a whos who of fighters

 

[joy2day]

well he lot to Schulz, Briggs and Morrison, hardly a whos who of fighters

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Those losses were later in the comeback like a few years after the Holyfield fight, when George was 46 years old. He was top 5 at the time of the Holyfield fight; he had KOs over actual contenders during that time. Like yeah, NO SHIT he started not fighting as well, he was an old man at 46; that takes NOTHING away from what a fantastic comeback it was, and only a really ignorant person would imply otherwise.

 

[treelo]

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Those losses were later in the comeback like a few years after the Holyfield fight, when George was 46 years old. He was top 5 at the time of the Holyfield fight; he had KOs over actual contenders during that time. Like yeah, NO SHIT he started not fighting as well, he was an old man at 46; that takes NOTHING away from what a fantastic comeback it was, and only a really ignorant person would imply otherwise.

talking shite mate

the only win you could give him any sort of credibility for was against Cooper, who was a fringe fighter at best, he didn't fight any contender's at all, his comeback is literally littered with absolute fucking cans

he has the Moorer win..and some people have suggested that was fixed, i didnt think so, and still dont, but other than that he has some looking KO wins against who were over the hill themselves or just plain shit

 

[joy2day]

talking shite mate

the only win you could give him any sort of credibility for was against Cooper, who was a fringe fighter at best, he didn't fight any contender's at all, his comeback is literally littered with absolute fucking cans

he has the Moorer win..and some people have suggested that was fixed, i didnt think so, and still dont, but other than that he has some looking KO wins against who were over the hill themselves or just plain shit

No one ever said that after his return he was an all-time great, only that he did fantastic for his age, and was one of the top 5 at the time.

What you are posting is as meaningless as can be. That he didn't beat any all-time greats at that time? No one even said he did. Only that he did great and was still one of the best even in another generation. At the time of the Holyfield fight, he could beat all but a handful of fighters in the world (like all but 3-4).

 

[treelo]

No one ever said that after his return he was an all-time great, only that he did fantastic for his age, and was one of the top 5 at the time.

What you are posting is as meaningless as can be. That he didn't beat any all-time greats at that time? No one even said he did. Only that he did great and was still one of the best even in another generation. At the time of the Holyfield fight, he could beat all but a handful of fighters in the world (like all but 3-4).

you said he had KOs over contenders, he didnt, he was fighting shite, Moorer picked him as a gimme fight

 

[joy2day]

you said he had KOs over contenders, he didnt, he was fighting shite, Moorer picked him as a gimme fight

Do you know what a contender is? Did you think a contender was an all-time great? It's someone who is rated high at the time, and therefore is contending for the title, and he did beat those guys. Look at his record again. He also, uh, beat the champ Moorer, which you just contradicted yourself with. In any case, look back at the guys he was fighting- he fought ranked contenders. It doesn't take a genius.

 

[treelo]

Do you know what a contender is? Did you think a contender was an all-time great? It's someone who is rated high at the time, and therefore is contending for the title, and he did beat those guys. Look at his record again. He also, uh, beat the champ Moorer, which you just contradicted yourself with. In any case, look back at the guys he was fighting- he fought ranked contenders. It doesn't take a genius.

he was fighting absolute shite mate, i dont think you understand what a contender is, i have already said Moorer took it as a gimme and lost

tell me who he beat who was ranked

 

[joy2day]

he was fighting absolute shite mate, i dont think you understand what a contender is, i have already said Moorer took it as a gimme and lost

tell me who he beat who was ranked

lol I'm not going to look things up for you. Of course they were ranked, do you think he got 2 title shots by fighting NO ranked fighters? Do you know ANYTHING about boxing?

 

[treelo]

lol I'm not going to look things up for you. Of course they were ranked, do you think he got 2 title shots by fighting NO ranked fighters? Do you know ANYTHING about boxing?

christ mate, i think you need to sit down for a bit and watch tiktok

i dont need to "look things up", i was actively following boxing when he got his bogus title shots, they were gimmes for the guys because it was a big selling point for the fights

 

[joy2day]

christ mate, i think you need to sit down for a bit and watch tiktok

i dont need to "look things up", i was actively following boxing when he got his bogus title shots, they were gimmes for the guys because it was a big selling point for the fights

You won't look it up because you know you are wrong.

Watch Tik Tok? No, you need to go back and get your GED, you don't know how to write. Anyway, by now.

 

[treelo]

You won't look it up because you know you are wrong.

Watch Tik Tok? No, you need to go back and get your GED, you don't know how to write. Anyway, by now.

being about 30 at the time, i really don't need to check boxrec son

 

[dog y]

Let's take a moment to appreciate the chin on this guy:

One of those guys who disproved the concept that you start to lose your chin as you age. He was still laughing off Shannon Briggs's punches at nearly 50.

Damn, Briggs hit a flush elbow to the back of Foreman's head around 1:43.
Absolute tank.

 

[mozfonky]

suffice to say, I think it's safe to call George a top ten ATG at heavyweight inspite of his shortcomings. I think Holmes might be too much of a boxer for him, Ali would take him in 64-75, after that Ali couldn't whip much of anyone. The others who usually would be placed in the top ten might be too small for him, Joe Louis was deadly but he never fought anyone remotely like George. Primo Carnera, for all his size was known as a pretty inneffectual puncher. Marciano could beat him if he lasted past the beating Joe Frazier got, and that's a BIG if. Lennox would be a very tough one for George. He could match size and at least the power in that right cross was comparable to George's shots. He was also a lot smarter than young George and Old George knew better than to call out Lennox. Peak Holyfield would be interesting, I think on his best night, Holy is tough for anyone, including George, anyway, top ten isn't bad when there've been thousands of heavyweights in history.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Damn, Briggs hit a flush elbow to the back of Foreman's head around 1:43.
Absolute tank.

You're right but that's Holyfield not Briggs.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

suffice to say, I think it's safe to call George a top ten ATG at heavyweight inspite of his shortcomings. I think Holmes might be too much of a boxer for him, Ali would take him in 64-75, after that Ali couldn't whip much of anyone. The others who usually would be placed in the top ten might be too small for him, Joe Louis was deadly but he never fought anyone remotely like George. Primo Carnera, for all his size was known as a pretty inneffectual puncher. Marciano could beat him if he lasted past the beating Joe Frazier got, and that's a BIG if. Lennox would be a very tough one for George. He could match size and at least the power in that right cross was comparable to George's shots. He was also a lot smarter than young George and Old George knew better than to call out Lennox. Peak Holyfield would be interesting, I think on his best night, Holy is tough for anyone, including George, anyway, top ten isn't bad when there've been thousands of heavyweights in history.

Foreman is indeed a Top 10 ATG heavyweight. He also has the resume to go with it.