Was comeback Foreman a scam?

treelo

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So, just looking at a few records from that era and comeback Foreman literally lost to any half decent fighter he fought, apart from one shot against one of the chinniest title holders ever

people often talk about the comeback like it was some mythical event, and in reality he was fighting bums, he also lost to Schulz, he even admitted as much after that fight

he refused to fight Lewis, Tucker, Tyson and the rematch against Schulz
 
A lot of people think that Michael Moorer took a dive, but I don't know anything beyond that. It does look a bit fishy to my amateur eyes.
 
I mean he fought Evander who was around his HW prime.

But to answer your question, yeah his come back had a lot of cherry picking but that's boxing for you.
 
He was really popular and coming into his whole old man preacher grill man character in pop culture at the time and in the end it's prize fighting so... It's still one of my favorite sports memories from childhood. Who doesn't want to see the old man beat the young bull?
 
He did well for an old man, I actually thought the Holyfield fight was his best. His conditioning dropped off massively after that fight. Even in his prime, I'm not entirely sure he could put up a better effort against a prime Holyfield. He was just so wild, undisciplined and questionable as far as stamina in his youth, while against Holyfield he was like the polar opposite of that, a walking tank who uncompromisingly kept walking in and trying to get the kill.

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A lot of people think that Michael Moorer took a dive, but I don't know anything beyond that. It does look a bit fishy to my amateur eyes.

There was legit impact, what people miss out on is that Foreman was tagging him throughout the round. He had legit power but generally was too slow and clumsy to land anything clean. Now I do think Moorer should have been able to get up, he was conscious, but I guess he just had a moment of disbelief about being on the canvas after dominating the old guy throughout the fight.

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Foreman was slower than the tide, plus Moorer had a terrible chin...and terrible movement and defense
 
Let's take a moment to appreciate the chin on this guy:

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One of those guys who disproved the concept that you start to lose your chin as you age. He was still laughing off Shannon Briggs's punches at nearly 50.
other than the Ali fight, did he ever go down, that was more to tiredness than anything else, the big fella was a rock
 
other than the Ali fight, did he ever go down, that was more to tiredness than anything else, the big fella was a rock

Lyle knocked him down legitimately a couple of times. Jimmy Young I think caught him with an off balance shot when he was gassed.

Back then every old school coach wanted you to weigh in under 220 pounds because that's the weight guys like Joe Louis fought at. I firmly believe that Foreman fought his early career somewhat drained by this practise, he was clearly a much bigger man who probably should've weighed closer to 230-240.
 
So, just looking at a few records from that era and comeback Foreman literally lost to any half decent fighter he fought, apart from one shot against one of the chinniest title holders ever

people often talk about the comeback like it was some mythical event, and in reality he was fighting bums, he also lost to Schulz, he even admitted as much after that fight

he refused to fight Lewis, Tucker, Tyson and the rematch against Schulz
Not really, not in my view. Seano will no doubt come in and proclaim the evils of Big George's comeback but it's not quite so simple. That sentiment is not uncommon, it's about half and half. Gil Clancy proclaimed after, I think it was after, Pierre Coetzer, that George was a better fighter in his comeback. He was talking about that telephone pole left jab, his relaxation which cured his youthful problem of stamina and his use of his brain rather than just throwing punches to throw punches. Gil did complain in an earlier interview that George wouldn't agree to fight a bunch of bums when they were in tv negotiations, and that they were real no hopers but George wouldn't risk it. He then went on to say that with (pre-Moorer) these decisions, "he was alot smarter than us". George came back carefully, gradually and he was self-managed. He trained very hard, still had his power, no speed in his hands or his legs, I don't think he ever moved his head much but he added some Ol' Mongoose tricks from his trainer, Archie, like the crossed arm defense.

In short, I don't think he fought the poor caliber that people think he did all the time. Plenty of those guys were ranked and were pros. He started off with absolute overweight white guys who couldn't fight their ways out of a paper bag but he was eventually fighting, I think alot of them were actually contenders. He was well aware how silly his comeback was and he took advantage of it. So, when you say, "scam", it was definetly partially a con. Teddy Atlas did everything he could at the press conferences to bring out what he knew was really underneath, the mean George, the REAL George, pushing him, fucking with him. All george would do is say, "bring me a sammich" but Teddy knew full well how dangerous George was and what his intent was and he wanted everyone else to see what was beneath the surface.

His problems were, he just couldn't keep up a young man's pace and he just couldn't cut off the ring, not because he didn't know how, Ali said no one ever cut off the ring on him better, but he was just too fat and old. You know you have a problem when tommy Morrison and Axel Schultz can use angles and move on your old ass. But, for guys who would come to him? Be real interesting if we ever got Tyson who did very little movement of his own. When he was young, he'd move to the sides and punch but by the time they would have fought, Mike was all forward movement. makes you wonder if the apocryphal story that Mike was begging king not to make him fight him make you wonder if it's true when at the time, I scoffed.
 
Lyle knocked him down legitimately a couple of times. Jimmy Young I think caught him with an off balance shot when he was gassed.

Back then every old school coach wanted you to weigh in under 220 pounds because that's the weight guys like Joe Louis fought at. I firmly believe that Foreman fought his early career somewhat drained by this practise, he was clearly a much bigger man who probably should've weighed closer to 230-240.
I don't think so, he was better in many ways when he was younger, just dumber. Ali said after their fight, "the bull is stronger but the matador is smarter". He had clear limits in both versions but the potential was there as a young man, he just never figured out how to put it all together, which at least partially, Like Liston, had to do with his prodigous abilities. Neither had a ton of real experience and training as ammies or pros and were so dominant that they never learned a lot of things. Foreman was taught a ton of things by the brilliant minds around him but he did not know how to pace himself, no head movement, but definitely a very formidable fighter who really, probably only Ali could have handled in Zaire. Ali was warned by Norman Mailer about how Foreman wasn't just a slugger anymore, and Ali agreed saying, "George is much improved". What was left after was a headcase, like don king's character says in the movie, Only In American,"it took him ten years to get up".
 
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He did well for an old man, I actually thought the Holyfield fight was his best. His conditioning dropped off massively after that fight. Even in his prime, I'm not entirely sure he could put up a better effort against a prime Holyfield. He was just so wild, undisciplined and questionable as far as stamina in his youth, while against Holyfield he was like the polar opposite of that, a walking tank who uncompromisingly kept walking in and trying to get the kill.

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There was legit impact, what people miss out on is that Foreman was tagging him throughout the round. He had legit power but generally was too slow and clumsy to land anything clean. Now I do think Moorer should have been able to get up, he was conscious, but I guess he just had a moment of disbelief about being on the canvas after dominating the old guy throughout the fight.

CXhN81.gif
Maybe, I never thought moorer had any drive. He didn't deserve the Holyfield fight in my opinion. As unimpressive as that punch looked to some people, to the point of some thinking the fix was in, apparently he busted his lip pretty badly with that last one.
 
Let's take a moment to appreciate the chin on this guy:

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One of those guys who disproved the concept that you start to lose your chin as you age. He was still laughing off Shannon Briggs's punches at nearly 50.
amazing really, and the only time he was noticeably hurt it was by one of the absolute cans he fought, Ken Lakusta, had him staggering all over for a second.
 
He was a huge man, I saw a real life sized pic of his fist at a restaurant, his hand is about 40 percent bigger than mine. I know a guy who met him on SNL (he worked as a stagehand) and being big himself, like 6-4, George called him a big man but he said George's hands were like catcher's mitts and fingers were like sausages. The pics don't do justice as the cam on my phone couldn't correct my fist being closer to it.
 

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I wouldn't say it was a scam. It was more like self-preservation which is common among older fighters. Foreman came back in his late 30s and fought some of the best heavies even into his late 40s. Reasonably, at such an advanced age, you can only expect so much.
 
So, just looking at a few records from that era and comeback Foreman literally lost to any half decent fighter he fought, apart from one shot against one of the chinniest title holders ever

people often talk about the comeback like it was some mythical event, and in reality he was fighting bums, he also lost to Schulz, he even admitted as much after that fight

he refused to fight Lewis, Tucker, Tyson and the rematch against Schulz
He was literally begging to fight Tyson though
 
So, just looking at a few records from that era and comeback Foreman literally lost to any half decent fighter he fought, apart from one shot against one of the chinniest title holders ever

people often talk about the comeback like it was some mythical event, and in reality he was fighting bums, he also lost to Schulz, he even admitted as much after that fight

he refused to fight Lewis, Tucker, Tyson and the rematch against Schulz
Wasn't it Tyson that avoided him?
 
Wasn't it Tyson that avoided him?
that was rumored, I've never heard anyone confirm that. Tyson was a bad matchup though, stylewise, a guy that comes straight to a guy.
 
He absolutely wanted to fight Mike Tyson. George was talking about that fight in interviews for years and was even in negotiations with Don King. Why it didn't come about, I don't know.

The winner of Foreman vs. Briggs was getting a shot at Lennox Lewis, and George would have absolutely taken a shot at Lewis if given the opportunity. Maybe George wasn't too thrilled about fighting him when Lennox carried no belt around his waist.
 
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He absolutely wanted to fight Mike Tyson. George was talking about that fight in interviews for years and was even in negotiations with Don King. Why it didn't come about, I don't know.

The winner of Foreman vs. Briggs was getting a shot at Lennox Lewis, and George would have absolutely taken a shot at Lewis if given the opportunity. Maybe George wasn't too thrilled about fighting him when Lennox carried no belt around his waist.
Tyson said he didnt want to deal with that power
 
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