Warcraft III Reforged releases today

[Chubz]

Warcraft 3 is one of the most influential strategy games I've ever played. I can't even tell you how many hours I put into it and The Frozen Throne when I was a kid. I remember spending almost an entire summer playing it when school was out--I'd wake up and play all day long, rinse repeat. It became an obsession.

That being said, I just can't bring myself to pay for this lazy abomination of a "remaster." Blizzard's stance on custom games is just icing on the cake. It kills me to see a game as magnificent as Warcraft 3 given this kind of treatment, because it deserves so much better.

 

[Law Talkin’ Guy]

That analogy doesn't work. You can write the book without word, but you cant make the dota like game without warcraft custom mode.

Basically, if you take away word, it doesn't effect anything. You can still write the book.

If you take away warcraft custom mode, you cant make the mini game.

It doesn’t change the fact that the revised EULA subverts traditional copyright law, especially as how it has applied to games and mods in the past.

When developers in the past like id software have released editors the idea is that it promotes creativity and expression among the modding community. From time to time those mods get popular, and then the modders are able to commercialize their mods. That was the case with Team Fortress for Quake, then the creators were able to commercialize it with Valve for Team Fortress Classic for Half-life 1 and then Team Fortress 2. The creators of Counter Strike were also able to go into business with Valve, as were the creators of Dota. PUBG also started as a mod for Arma III I believe.

However, under this draconian EULA a game company would be able to just expropriate these mods, sell them, and be under no obligation to compensate the actual modders that put in all the work.

The fact that you seem to be ok with that makes you a pathetic hack of the highest order.

 

[Bamboozled]

Wat

This whole launch is a mess, in 1v1 you get matched up with people from around the world, so my ping in USA can be 60-85 depending on the server. But I can aslo get EU games, wehre its 150+ or Korean server where its 350+ ping.

Warcraft 3 is one of the most influential strategy games I've ever played. I can't even tell you how many hours I put into it and The Frozen Throne when I was a kid. I remember spending almost an entire summer playing it when school was out--I'd wake up and play all day long, rinse repeat. It became an obsession.

That being said, I just can't bring myself to pay for this lazy abomination of a "remaster." Blizzard's stance on custom games is just icing on the cake. It kills me to see a game as magnificent as Warcraft 3 given this kind of treatment, because it deserves so much better.

Yeah, I used to play this game all the time when I wasn't doing sports or hanging out with friends. Luckily I never bought reforged. I just have my classic.

 

[JoeyJoeJoeJr]

It doesn’t change the fact that the revised EULA subverts traditional copyright law, especially as how it has applied to games and mods in the past.

When developers in the past like id software have released editors the idea is that it promotes creativity and expression among the modding community. From time to time those mods get popular, and then the modders are able to commercialize their mods. That was the case with Team Fortress for Quake, then the creators were able to commercialize it with Valve for Team Fortress Classic for Half-life 1 and then Team Fortress 2. The creators of Counter Strike were also able to go into business with Valve, as were the creators of Dota. PUBG also started as a mod for Arma III I believe.

However, under this draconian EULA a game company would be able to just expropriate these mods, sell them, and be under no obligation to compensate the actual modders that put in all the work.

The fact that you seem to be ok with that makes you a pathetic hack of the highest order.

Because they aren't doing all the work. Theyre just creating the mini game. If they actually did all the work, they would be programming it all from scratch. They aren't. Theyre taking an already finished product and changing it. Ive made many mods on starcraft in the past, I never considered them my games. If starcraft custom never existed, I would never have ever been able to make them.

 

[Bamboozled]

Because they aren't doing all the work. Theyre just creating the mini game. If they actually did all the work, they would be programming it all from scratch. They aren't. Theyre taking an already finished product and changing it. Ive made many mods on starcraft in the past, I never considered them my games. If starcraft custom never existed, I would never have ever been able to make them.

So what do musicians do then?

 

[JoeyJoeJoeJr]

So what do musicians do then?

From my experience, usually beg for money outside of supermarkets while playing shitty music on a guitar. Why?

 

[Bamboozled]

From my experience, usually beg for money outside of supermarkets while playing shitty music on a guitar. Why?

Yeah, you've been btfo. Thanks for playing.

 

[JoeyJoeJoeJr]

Yeah, you've been btfo. Thanks for playing.

If im btfo then you should be able to formulate a reply

 

[Bamboozled]

If im btfo then you should be able to formulate a reply

You didn't actually formulate a reply contradicting my point. BTFO, ezpz, get fucked, uninstall.

 

[JoeyJoeJoeJr]

I have been promised remake of Warcraft 3, game that had profiles in game, ladder, arranged team, custom campaigns, great cinematics...
Only thing that looks nice in Reforged is ingame models of characters, but guess what, that was outsourced.

Then don't buy it. Nobody is forcing you to.

 

[Law Talkin’ Guy]

Because they aren't doing all the work. Theyre just creating the mini game. If they actually did all the work, they would be programming it all from scratch. They aren't. Theyre taking an already finished product and changing it. Ive made many mods on starcraft in the past, I never considered them my games. If starcraft custom never existed, I would never have ever been able to make them.

If you make an entirely new set of gameplay rules, as was the case with Dota, that new game is yours. Maybe the original Dota was made using Warcraft 3 assets, but when it came time to make Dota 2 none of Blizzard’s models, sprites or sound effect were used - only the gameplay elements of Dota 1 which were created entirely by modders that weren’t affiliated with Blizzard in any way we’re used. The copyright belongs to them, not Blizzard.

 

[Bob Gray]

You didn't actually formulate a reply contradicting my point. BTFO, ezpz, get fucked, uninstall.

What is your point exactly? Not being a dick I'm genuinely curious. I don't think making music is quite the same thing as taking someone else's song and changing it.

Of course I realize that does happen. But if someone covers or samples someone else's track the original owner gets something for it.

 

[Holic]

BAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAA

 

[JoeyJoeJoeJr]

You didn't actually formulate a reply contradicting my point. BTFO, ezpz, get fucked, uninstall.

Because it didn't make any sense. Youre comparing apples to oranges

 

[JoeyJoeJoeJr]

If you make an entirely new set of gameplay rules, as was the case with Dota, that new game is yours. Maybe the original Dota was made using Warcraft 3 assets, but when it came time to make Dota 2 none of Blizzard’s models, sprites or sound effect were used - only the gameplay elements of Dota 1 which were created entirely by modders that weren’t affiliated with Blizzard in any way we’re used. The copyright belongs to them, not Blizzard.

I can understand that, I just don't think its unfair. If you want to create a game and take full credit for it, than make the game and take full credit for it.

If you make a game on another game, dont be surprised if the developers try and claim that idea, knowing full well without their game you could have never done it. I see both perspectives, I just don't have a problem with it. Infact, its something I would expect from a large business.

 

[Bamboozled]

What is your point exactly? Not being a dick I'm genuinely curious. I don't think making music is quite the same thing as taking someone else's song and changing it.

Of course I realize that does happen. But if someone covers or samples someone else's track the original owner gets something for it.

Fender, a guitar manufacturer, creates musical tools. You can do an entire Fender set up if you'd like. You can make music, using their tools, and everything you've made is provided by them. So is it their right to own the content you created using their tools?

No. It isn't.

Btw, I doubt this would even hold up in court. Pretty sure Blizzard tried to sue valve and failed miserably.

 

[fijuviju]

Then don't buy it. Nobody is forcing you to.

Then tell Blizzard to stop putting games in preorder, especially if they cant be bothered to make proper ones. Its nice to take money for shitty products, but when people tell each other how to refund, Blizzard bans them. So Blizzard is forcing them to ''buy'' it.

 

[JoeyJoeJoeJr]

Then tell Blizzard to stop putting games in preorder, especially if they cant be bothered to make proper ones. Its nice to take money for shitty products, but when people tell each other how to refund, Blizzard bans them. So Blizzard is forcing them to ''buy'' it.

I don't believe pretty much anything youre saying

 

[Law Talkin’ Guy]

What is your point exactly? Not being a dick I'm genuinely curious. I don't think making music is quite the same thing as taking someone else's song and changing it.

Of course I realize that does happen. But if someone covers or samples someone else's track the original owner gets something for it.

Modders commercializing their mods isn’t the same thing either though.

If the creators of Dota 1 tried to package and sell Dota 1 then of course Blizzard would have some copyright in it because the mod used Blizzard assets. But that’s not what happened. The commercialization of Dota didn’t come until Dota 2, at which point Valve said to the owners of the IP - we want to make a Dota game using our own engine and assets. They wanted the rights to the name and to use the gameplay elements.

Game companies can’t just make these tools available to modders and then say what the modders create the company owns.

For example if I wrote a short story featuring Disney characters like Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck, I couldn’t publish it for profit because I don’t own the copyright for those characters. But Disney can’t just take my story and sell it either because while the characters might be theirs, the story was mine. That’s essentially what Blizzard is trying to do here. Profit off of other people’s creativity and work.

 

[Law Talkin’ Guy]

I can understand that, I just don't think its unfair. If you want to create a game and take full credit for it, than make the game and take full credit for it.

If you make a game on another game, dont be surprised if the developers try and claim that idea, knowing full well without their game you could have never done it. I see both perspectives, I just don't have a problem with it. Infact, its something I would expect from a large business.

Except that’s not how the law works. If it worked that way Valve never would have had to go into business with the creators of Counter Strike. They could have just taken it. Valve wouldn’t have been able to make Team Fortress Classic or Team Fortress 2 because id software would have owned it.