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War Room OT Discussion v4

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Then very few people have any business trying to achieve greatness. Who is worthy by that standard? You have to be Christopher fucking Hitchens to qualify, or I want you to fuck right off. Hegel was such a pretentious cocksmoker sometimes. He wants us to grant that works of art are a creation of spirit, proceeding from a divine impulse, in order for us to reconcile the need for art. No. Bad German. No cookie. No holy war on art.

Aside from that, other than like Emily Dickinson, has anyone in fact achieved greatness by that standard? For example, Shakespeare's plays were somewhat low-brow popular entertainment. Sounds to be like old Georgie is covering for a wounded ego.
 
Aside from that, other than like Emily Dickinson, has anyone in fact achieved greatness by that standard? For example, Shakespeare's plays were somewhat low-brow popular entertainment. Sounds to be like old Georgie is covering for a wounded ego.
lol it really does sound like that, but that's Germany of the time...

What's weird is that he acknowledges education should be traditional and on the strict side, following old paths along classics, ethics, etc. and eventually the child "actualizes" himself through that process, etc. Which is a normal intuitive sort of view to have. But when greatness comes into it, it's usually collaborative, or on a frontier, or it reconciles old ideas or technologies in some way, or that person is just the best with developing on the latest fad and gives it some staying power. Or more cynically, they had the richest benefactor. It's kind of difficult to be sideways to public opinion and be recognized as great. The public usually comes along with you and the people who are helping you.

Orwell fits, maybe?
 
Hegel is alright sometimes, I just really despise his fundamental ideas about art, because he was way too smart to fall for something as ridiculous as divinity.

We can't all be Hitchens, but every other uneducated fuck on the internet thinks they are. They won't listen to the boring stuff that they are supposed to already know, and go straight to being these godawful contrarians who don't even know what they're disagreeing with. I was reading some of Hegel's ideas & criticisms about education, and it could have been written yesterday. His ideas are a bit all over the place though.

William James is my favorite and he was against Hegelian shit. He said he didn't understand what Hegel was talking about until he took nitrous. lol. Socrates also thought that poets were just vessels of the divine. It is kind of true. These artists are hit by moments of inspiration that it is hard for them to take credit for. Socrates thought he knew what the poets meant more than the poets do. The poets are just instruments. Conductors. It is God speaking to us through them. Like a possession. Or the unconscious is what Jung would say. Jung also said the same thing as Socrates but he made it psychological.

“Art is a kind of innate drive that seizes a human being and makes him its instrument. The artist is not a person endowed with free will who seeks his own ends, but one who allows art to realize its purpose through him. As a human being he may have moods and a will and personal aims, but as an artist he is "man" in a higher sense— he is "collective man"— one who carries and shapes the unconscious, psychic forms of mankind.”

C.G. Jung

replace god with "one who carries and shapes the unconscious psychic forms of mankind." Many people call these unconscious psychic forms God. Or something of the character. Michael Jackson said he got the bass line of Billie Jean from God. That is what a lot of people call it. That is what I am talking about in the concrete. The unconscious forms. He didn't know where it came from. It didn't come from him, or his conscious self.


James is talking about Hegel here. Their universe is too clean shaven:

"The "through-and-through" universe seems to suffocate me with its infallible impeccable all-pervasiveness. Its necessity, with no possibilities; its relations, with no subjects, make me feel as if I had entered into a contract with no reserved rights ... It seems too buttoned-up and white-chokered and clean-shaven a thing to speak for the vast slow-breathing unconscious Kosmos with its dread abysses and its unknown tides. "

-William James
 
Aside from that, other than like Emily Dickinson, has anyone in fact achieved greatness by that standard? For example, Shakespeare's plays were somewhat low-brow popular entertainment. Sounds to be like old Georgie is covering for a wounded ego.

Magellan. Karl Marx. Magellan didn't take shit from anyone. He would mouth off to the king. He would disobey the church. He marooned a priest. Marx got kicked out of a ton of countries.

He says that not caring about public opinion is the first step. Then you must be gracious to it. Then it will turn into its own prejudice. Hegel certainly achieved greatness.
 
lol it really does sound like that, but that's Germany of the time...

What's weird is that he acknowledges education should be traditional and on the strict side, following old paths along classics, ethics, etc. and eventually the child "actualizes" himself through that process, etc. Which is a normal intuitive sort of view to have. But when greatness comes into it, it's usually collaborative, or on a frontier, or it reconciles old ideas or technologies in some way, or that person is just the best with developing on the latest fad and gives it some staying power. Or more cynically, they had the richest benefactor. It's kind of difficult to be sideways to public opinion and be recognized as great. The public usually comes along with you and the people who are helping you.

Orwell fits, maybe?

Yes, I read a great book on this. The Pasteurization of France. It is like sociology of science. How microbiology has been pinned on one man. France promoted him. And the guy starts by saying, like Tolstoy, never trust the French side of anything. You can see how this runs into Tolstoy through his version of history, which is similar to Hegel's. That we reduce wars to one man. Like Napoleon. All men on that battlefield are responsible. This complex event is reduced to one man.

The Matthew effect of accumulated advantage, described in sociology, is a phenomenon sometimes summarized by the adage that "the rich get richer and the poor get poorer."[1][2] The concept is applicable to matters of fame or status, but may also be applied literally to cumulative advantage of economic capital.

The concept is in two of the Parables of Jesus in the synoptic Gospels (Table 2, of the Eusebian Canons).

The concept concludes both synoptic versions of the parable of the talents:

For to every one who has will more be given, and he will have abundance; but from him who has not, even what he has will be taken away.

— Matthew 25:29, RSV.
I tell you, that to every one who has will more be given; but from him who has not, even what he has will be taken away.

— Luke 19:26, RSV.
The concept concludes two of the three synoptic versions of the parable of the lamp under a bushel (absent in the version of Matthew):

For to him who has will more be given; and from him who has not, even what he has will be taken away

— Mark 4:25, RSV.
Take heed then how you hear; for to him who has will more be given, and from him who has not, even what he thinks that he has will be taken away.

— Luke 8:18, RSV.
The concept is presented again in Matthew outside of a parable during Christ's explanation to his disciples of the purpose of parables:

And he answered them, "To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. For to him who has will more be given, and he will have abundance; but from him who has not, even what he has will be taken away."

— Matthew 13:11–12, RSV.

In the sociology of science, "Matthew effect" was a term coined by Robert K. Merton to describe how, among other things, eminent scientists will often get more credit than a comparatively unknown researcher, even if their work is similar; it also means that credit will usually be given to researchers who are already famous.[3][5] For example, a prize will almost always be awarded to the most senior researcher involved in a project, even if all the work was done by a graduate student. This was later formulated by Stephen Stigler asStigler's law of eponymy – "No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer" – with Stigler explicitly naming Merton as the true discoverer, making his "law" an example of itself.

Merton furthermore argued that in the scientific community the Matthew effect reaches beyond simple reputation to influence the wider communication system, playing a part in social selection processes and resulting in a concentration of resources and talent.

He gave as an example the disproportionate visibility given to articles from acknowledged authors, at the expense of equally valid or superior articles written by unknown authors. He also noted that the concentration of attention on eminent individuals can lead to an increase in their self-assurance, pushing them to perform research in important but risky problem areas



A good example is Richard Dawkins. He is cited so much on evolution, specifically The Selfish Gene, even though he just popularized the concept. That initial cumulative advantage has allowed him to maintain a career and be relevant in science without actually doing anything.
 
lol it really does sound like that, but that's Germany of the time...

What's weird is that he acknowledges education should be traditional and on the strict side, following old paths along classics, ethics, etc. and eventually the child "actualizes" himself through that process, etc. Which is a normal intuitive sort of view to have. But when greatness comes into it, it's usually collaborative, or on a frontier, or it reconciles old ideas or technologies in some way, or that person is just the best with developing on the latest fad and gives it some staying power. Or more cynically, they had the richest benefactor. It's kind of difficult to be sideways to public opinion and be recognized as great. The public usually comes along with you and the people who are helping you.

Orwell fits, maybe?

Orwell, yeah, probably. Wrote a time when almost everyone held to views that were quickly and majorly discredited so that's a little weird.

This discussion reminds me of this:

https://harpers.org/archive/2007/02/the-ecstasy-of-influence/
 
Aside from that, other than like Emily Dickinson, has anyone in fact achieved greatness by that standard? For example, Shakespeare's plays were somewhat low-brow popular entertainment. Sounds to be like old Georgie is covering for a wounded ego.

Oh, and Russell said the same thing and must be covering for a wounded ego:

"One should respect public opinion insofar as is necessary to avoid starvation and keep out of prison, but anything that goes beyond this is voluntary submission to an unnecessary tyranny." - Bertrand Russell
 
Oh, and Russell said the same thing and must be covering for a wounded ego:

"One should respect public opinion insofar as is necessary to avoid starvation and keep out of prison, but anything that goes beyond this is voluntary submission to an unnecessary tyranny." - Bertrand Russell

I wouldn't consider that to be the same thing.
 
Oh and Kant and Newton are two great men who did it their way. Who were recluses like Dickinson.
 
I wouldn't consider that to be the same thing.

Why? By Russell's standards, nobody would ever achieve greatness. Just like Hegel's. And they both devalue public opinion. Did Russell only do the bare minimum? Just to eat and be free? Of course he didn't lol. So why did he say it? Wounded ego?

And Hegel has nothing to worry about, he is far more influential than Russell. Russell's biggest work had Whitehead do the heavy lifting and he believed in God. Whitehead is a good example of that dustbin. More people should know him than Russell. The Hegelian dialectic is also misnamed. And Goethe came up with Sartre's ideas first. etc.
 
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I think I am more like Rose McGowan than Hitchens. When people like McGowan and I get any momentum we think we are unstoppable. lol. She is feeling powerful now. But it's starting to come apart as well. Hitchens was obviously emotional but it was more controlled. McGowan and I have less impulse control and are more prone to emotional outbursts. All 3 of us are reactive types. Like Jack Savage is not a reactive type. His tone really doesnt change in conflict. Fawlty. Slightly reactive. Not sure. Madmick is fuckin reactive lol
 
You don't think there was a clear difference between Walt in S4E13 and S5S2? He became a cartoon character in two episodes

You'll have to give me some specifics as to what you're referring to.


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I just saw Kevin O Leary cry on Shark Tank. Having to use Kleenex to wipe a tear from his eye. wtf.
 
Sub-normal for the general population. Used to have endless, low-level arguments with TCK, then he started battling Nicky over Travon Martin (LI being very anti-Martin) and going up the border of explicit racism in the process. Then he was deeply offended about opposition to biased and authoritarian policing in Ferguson. Then it was a short step to total troll angry troll territory. Not sure what @Trotsky is thinking, but he's a bottom-tier poster. Doesn't even insult entertainingly. Just cunt this and fuck that, etc.

I must just not have enough interaction sample size. But I've recently made an effort to distinguish posters that I get confused (ShadowRun/oldshadow, Hatestorm/Bloodworth, LI/GearSM/JudoThrowFiasco, etc.) and was left the impression of JudoThrowFiasco >> LI >>> GSM
 
I must just not have enough interaction sample size. But I've recently made an effort to distinguish posters that I get confused (ShadowRun/oldshadow, Hatestorm/Bloodworth, LI/GearSM/JudoThrowFiasco, etc.) and was left the impression of JudoThrowFiasco >> LI >>> GSM

Agree that JTF is solid and GSM is terrible. Also that Oldshadow is the best of those four, though HS and BW have been on my ignore list for a while.
 
I just saw Kevin O Leary cry on Shark Tank. Having to use Kleenex to wipe a tear from his eye. wtf.

All the "sharks" on that show suck other than Mark Cuban and Lori Greiner.

Cuban, for all his Ayn Randian dog shit politics, is one of the few billionaires that (a) not only is actually self-made, but (b) really demonstrates strong business and financial acumen.
 
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